UK unveils new next generation fighter jet called Tempest

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Looks like the successor to the Eurofighter Typhoon has been unveiled:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-u...alled-tempest/

It is understood that £2 billion in initial funding will be set out to oversee the design and build of the aircraft, which will be operational in 2035. The project is a joint venture between BAE Systems, Rolls Royce, MBDA UK Ltd and Leonardo.

There are reports Sweden might also join the project too.

[Corky34]

I'm glad that article didn't use the same line as the BBC news reported, i mean i know direct energy weapons are a thing but on a plane, and a relatively small one at that.

Although when the BBC said it maybe capable of being used manned or unmanned it did get me wondering why we're still putting pilots in aircraft's, there's obviously a trade off between latency of remote commands, hacking the link between remote pilot and aircraft, and maybe less spacial awareness (although i would have thought VR eliminates most of that) but don't the advantages, tighter turns, higher G loads, and not putting your highly valuable pilot at risk, don't things like that outweigh the disadvantages?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I'm glad that article didn't use the same line as the BBC news reported, i mean i know direct energy weapons are a thing but on a plane, and a relatively small one at that.

Although when the BBC said it maybe capable of being used manned or unmanned it did get me wondering why we're still putting pilots in aircraft's, there's obviously a trade off between latency of remote commands, hacking the link between remote pilot and aircraft, and maybe less spacial awareness (although i would have thought VR eliminates most of that) but don't the advantages, tighter turns, higher G loads, and not putting your highly valuable pilot at risk, don't things like that outweigh the disadvantages?

Its most likely it might act as a "drone leader" so it can act as a realtime controller:

https://www.economist.com/science-an...nied-by-drones
https://www.popsci.com/future-air-fo...g-drone-swarms

[johnroe]

These modern planes are amazing, the way stealth design and all the other factors have come into play in the design, and the tech is phenomenal. Although I thought most of this sort of tech was freely available now, 2035 seems a long time. It will be interesting to see how the whole 'drone capability' of these planes plays out. The cost of the plane, the cost of training a pilot, can a remote pilot perform as well, or better because of no g force.

My present favourite Raptor.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

These modern planes are amazing, the way stealth design and all the other factors have come into play in the design, and the tech is phenomenal. Although I thought most of this sort of tech was freely available now, 2035 seems a long time. It will be interesting to see how the whole 'drone capability' of these planes plays out. The cost of the plane, the cost of training a pilot, can a remote pilot perform as well, or better because of no g force.

My present favourite Raptor.

The most amazing display I saw was at Farnborough 2006 with the prototype Mig29OVT which had 3D thrust vectoring. The whole crowd was in stunned silence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHAXZy6ujtQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMKxbCaVfsc

Wish I had better camera gear back then though!

The Harriers also could do some really amazing manoeuvres too.

[johnroe]

I always imagine showing some of that footage to a classic plane flyer. It does seem like modern planes are defying the laws of flight. I was just trying to find out more about the avionics that allows them to take it to the limit(which might explain airshow crashes). I found this but I'm not much wiser> https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...2-avionics.htm

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I always imagine showing some of that footage to a classic plane flyer. It does seem like modern planes are defying the laws of flight. I was just trying to find out more about the avionics that allows them to take it to the limit(which might explain airshow crashes). I found this but I'm not much wiser> https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...2-avionics.htm

It also needs the best pilots to fully utilise the plane in these scenarios - military airshow pilots and test pilots tend to be some of the best military pilots. Also one of the jumps in maneuverability actually was because of studies of birds. Traditional designs are known as "stable" designs since if the engine power goes the plane tends to glide. However,some people noticed birds are an "unstable" design and are very maneuverable since if they die in flight they fall to the ground. Hence,what you had is the start of "unstable" designs which tended to be more maneuverability but needed complex flight control systems to stop the plane falling out of the sky.

[johnroe]

Turning 'instability' into a design feature. It's amazing how much of human design is copied from nature, from angle poise lamps, to AI, I suppose.

I've been watching crows and gulls defending territory, they tend to drop and fly in an unusual way to out fly each other(ie: throw in a random move to confuse enemy).

I suppose they are quite secretive, but I wonder exactly what it's capable of. I'd seen some program about how they were constantly unstable and only the speed and adjustments of system kept them in the air(I'll see if there's a pilot explaining). What about the name 'Tempest', what have we had before; harrier was an obvious choice for a hovering plane, vulcan!!!

[spacein_vader]

I'm going to make the least risky prediction ever:

If it's ever delivered it will be late, over-budget and have less capability than currently stated.

[johnroe]

I'm going to make the least risky prediction ever:

If it's ever delivered it will be late, over-budget and have less capability than currently stated.

I think that's just fact. They've used an old name, and a design that looks part vulcan part raptor. The American idea is to make the raptor adaptable, it's already being updated with latest tech, and AI, and is going to be in service until 2060, because the basic plane is sound, and they can just plug in new hardware. Maybe this is just a sign of a government and military planning forward.

[spacein_vader]

I think that's just fact. They've used an old name, and a design that looks part vulcan part raptor. The American idea is to make the raptor adaptable, it's already being updated with latest tech, and AI, and is going to be in service until 2060, because the basic plane is sound, and they can just plug in new hardware. Maybe this is just a sign of a government and military planning forward.

But the same claims were made about the Typhoon yet this is supposed to replace it.

[DanceswithUnix]

I have to wonder just how useful stealth technology would be by the time this gets built.

Edit: I can't see any movable control surfaces on that, is that usual for a mock-up or is this expected to use deformable wings & thrust vectoring to to fly?

[Zak33]

Saab need to be involved. so if the Swedes do join in, the design might be OK.

If the UK can work with them, which is a hard challenge, as the phylosophy will be v different. But if BAE and Rolls work with Saab there's a chance.

Meantime I think we should cancel the US Purchase plan and go buy from someome less of an arse than Trump

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The main issue is were are the single level 1 partner in the F35,ie,the biggest foreign investor in the programme so a lot of funds have been dumped into it already but even previous US governments tried to restrict our access to import codes,etc. However,we are apparently just giving more and more contracts to US companies to build equipment we buy in the US instead of the UK - this is in stark contrast to the US where any major military projects usually require a local partner and local assembly of the equipment.

[johnroe]

I'm not really sure what that 'unveiling' was the other day. The UK does seem to be running it's military and suppliers down to the limit. I suppose it's a sort of risky gamble, if you fail to be able to defend your country, hoping that peace prevails. While the M.East is volatile, and Russian military planes enter UK air space.

And they have been relying on some very powerful American supply companies, but also the UK is totally reliant on US military support. These names make me laugh, wasn't the Typhoon a successful European collaboration. As has been said, this type of tech will be obsolete by then, okay until they reach the higher atmosphere, but next gen should be able to leave into space and return.

[dannyboy75]

I think that's just fact. They've used an old name

Typhoon is a recycled name too. The original Typhoon was designed to be a fighter/interceptor during WW2, but didn't quite live up to expectations, particularly early versions. However, it turned out to be superb in ground attack & fighter bomber roles instead.