Mark Proudfoot aka Spie has died

[Oakey]

Surprised there isn't a thread about this already (or if there is I can't see it)?

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2018...s-in-mallorca/

Is it safe now for me to confess that I was responsible for a certain forums mods room content being leaked?!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

He was the person who started Overclockers UK for those who don't know who he is although things went a bit south at the end.

[Oakey]

Is there anyone even still around from the early 2000s when OcUK and Hexus had their rivalry?

[Zak33]

no, I'm not still here.

and never was

Hey, that old rivalry was a jolly long time ago , and of course everyone's very sorry for his family's loss

[Saracen]

Surprised there isn't a thread about this already (or if there is I can't see it)?

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2018...s-in-mallorca/

Is it safe now for me to confess that I was responsible for a certain forums mods room content being leaked?!

No? You? Surely not? We'd never have guessed.


Is it safe? Yes.


But whatever prople's ancient feelings, he's died so can everyone pretty-please keep it respectful, or just keep quiet.

It's ancient history, most users here won't know anything about it and there is no benefit to dragging up ancient grievances.

[Saracen]

Is there anyone even still around from the early 2000s when OcUK and Hexus had their rivalry?

Yes. Both the board owner and myself were OcUK moderators, among others. We left as part of all that, and if we can keep it civil, so can everyone else. Please note I, currently, have a velvet glove pn my iron fist.

[Oakey]

It's strange to think he's dead, he randomly popped up on Pistonheads and we exchanged a few words (nothing nasty) and I could have sworn this was in the last 12 months but it was three years ago. What happened to his hair!

[Pob255]

Ok I never knew about that, it was the hideously bad customer service at OcUK at that time that did lead me both to hexus and scan.
Still no death is nice and I do hope that OcUK survives past it's founder.

[jimborae]

Is there anyone even still around from the early 2000s when OcUK and Hexus had their rivalry?

If you mean forum members Yes! And I remember reading those leaks with a mixture of great hilarity and disgust.

[jimborae]

Yes. Both the board owner and myself were OcUK moderators, among others. We left as part of all that, and if we can keep it civil, so can everyone else. Please note I, currently, have a velvet glove pn my iron fist.

And I still have a slight chip on my shoulder for getting an Infraction in those early Hexus days for calling a Spade a Spade when we all knew the truth & it was out there.

But yes lets keep it civil and remember that a family has lost their father & husband.

[Oakey]

Bonkers though isn't it? Sells his company for millions in what, 2011? Then dies 6 years later at 54.

[jimborae]

Bonkers though isn't it? Sells his company for millions in what, 2011? Then dies 6 years later at 54.

I guess life can be cruel like that and you just never know what's around the corner. Hence why I always try to do the right thing each day and have as few regrets as possible at the end of each day.

[Saracen]

And I still have a slight chip on my shoulder for getting an Infraction in those early Hexus days for calling a Spade a Spade when we all knew the truth & it was out there.

....

Well, perhaps, but it's worth remembering that :-

a) we have reasons for policies we make, and decisions we take
b) we don't always, or necessarily even often, explain why
c) we sometimes can't explain why
d) some of us have closer links, and are therefore bigger targets, than members/customers
e) as publishers, HEXUS can be held liable for what you lot, dear members say,
f) some people are not above heavy-handed use of his lawyers.

So here's a question for you .... do YOU want to risk getting sued, and maybe spending a sum in the tens of thousands of pounds, perhaps more, because I said something the subject didn't like?

No, and nor do other moderators here, or the owner, because a member has a beef, however sincerely felt or justified, with the owner of a shop and different forum.

As with the laws of the land, free speech on HEXUS is free only up to a point, and that point stops before it starts to put my home at risk.

Now consider board psychology. If you go on a bit of a rant, even a fairly mild one, others WILL join in, and someone will go further thsn you did. Then someone else goes further, someone further still and rapidly we have a libel-fest. It's the way of forums, that these things escalate.

So, that is part of the reason many of us were here, to get away from the atmosphere, at the time, elsewhere. The second-last thing we wanted was on-going hassle with the ex-forum or it's owner, and the last thing we wanted was hassle with his lawyers.

And in case you've forgotten since the start of this post, I'll ask you to go re-read point c) and think about it.


HEXUS was not the place for rants about Mark, by people that had run foul of him, either on his forums (where his rules were law) or even more so, commercial disputes with his company.

Over the years, I've tried to give many people the best legal advice I can, as someone with some legal qualifications (in my mispent youth) but who is not a lawyer, and even sorted out a few problems behind the scenes, a couple of times by phoning Mark and having a polite conversation. But had we allowed uncontrolled venting, and sense of getting him to cooperate, or probably even take the calls, would have evaporated in an instant. It was touch and go as it was.

So if you're still a bit sore, well, sorry, but certainly before I took any actual action there will have been warnings. But especially in those early days, I tried to talk people down, then give two or three warnings, only to be ignored. So, nowadays, my policy is more to advise/warn, and if that doesn't work, a very blunt warning, and if it's still ignored, instant suspension

It's funny, but after a few object lessons, my "blunt" or "last chance" warnings aren't ignored very often these days. Which is good as the problem goes away without taking direct measures. Or if it is ignored, the probkem still goes away, for a week or two, after taking action that takes about 10 seconds.

Nothing would please me more, Jim, than never giving warnings and certainly never twking action. My ideal moderating mode consists of doing nothing.

The real irony is that these days, it's pretty close to that, and I don't need to warn often, and take action even more rarely because, I'm convinced, that evetyone knows "last chance" means exactly that. Why is it ironic? Because it's pretty much how Matk Proudfoot did it. Not many third or fourth chances were given.

We had a spell, not long after I left OcUK were a LOT of people came here and moaned about OcUK and Mark. I can't tell you how many hours, but it was hours and hours and hours, week after week, I spend trying to convince people that HEXUS was not the "bitch-about-Spie" forum, and pleasepleaseplease knock it off. Go somewhere else to moan (remember c) ), but if you've got a chip about an infraction, believe me, I've got a chip about dozens of wasted hours, even many days, because a collection of persistent beggars just wouldn't let it rest.

[jimborae]

Well, perhaps, but it's worth remembering that :-

a) we have reasons for policies we make, and decisions we take
b) we don't always, or necessarily even often, explain why
c) we sometimes can't explain why
d) some of us have closer links, and are therefore bigger targets, than members/customers
e) as publishers, HEXUS can be held liable for what you lot, dear members say,
f) some people are not above heavy-handed use of his lawyers.
.............


The real irony is that these days, it's pretty close to that, and I don't need to warn often, and take action even more rarely because, I'm convinced, that evetyone knows "last chance" means exactly that. Why is it ironic? Because it's pretty much how Matk Proudfoot did it. Not many third or fourth chances were given.

We had a spell, not long after I left OcUK were a LOT of people came here and moaned about OcUK and Mark. I can't tell you how many hours, but it was hours and hours and hours, week after week, I spend trying to convince people that HEXUS was not the "bitch-about-Spie" forum, and pleasepleaseplease knock it off. Go somewhere else to moan (remember c) ), but if you've got a chip about an infraction, believe me, I've got a chip about dozens of wasted hours, even many days, because a collection of persistent beggars just wouldn't let it rest.

I have a number thoughts running around my head after reading that but for the sake of brevity I'll just say this:

1. My comment was meant as a lighthearted a riposte to your velvet gloved, iron fist, I guess it wasn't taken that way so apologies.

2. Your reply is the explanation i was looking for all those years ago so thank you.

[Saracen]

I have a number thoughts running around my head after reading that but for the sake of brevity I'll just say this:

1. My comment was meant as a lighthearted a riposte to your velvet gloved, iron fist, I guess it wasn't taken that way so apologies.

2. Your reply is the explanation i was looking for all those years ago so thank you.

No, no, jim, your post was taken as lighthearted. Mine wasn't meant as chastising. It was meant as something of an explanation, more than I felt I could give years ago, as to WHY you might have got an infraction. Though, we did drop some broad hints at the time. 20/20 hindsight is wonderful, though.

It was also, to be honest, not just meant for you but fior what I'm sure is a significant number of others who, like you, either did or wanted to .... um .... vent a bit.

It's not that we didn't sympathise with that. It's that, for various reasons, we didn't want the feud to transfer here .... any more than it already had.

It wasn't meant as a slap, and I'm sorry if it came across that way.


EDIT - It was also meant as an explanation of one of the complexities of moderating.

We positively want, within the rules, to encourage free speech. But sometimes, we have to say no to something, and can't explain why. There have been occasions when even admins haven't been told why, beyond "lawyer's advice", and even we just have to accept that. And no, that doesn't refer in any way to Spie.

But, in an atmosphere where generally, rule-compliant free-speech is king, when we say "no, and we can't tell you why" it's hard to swallow. Isn't it?

It .... chafes. Grates.

We know. But sometimes, it just is.

[jimborae]

No, no, jim, your post was taken as lighthearted. Mine wasn't meant as chastising. It was meant as something of an explanation, more than I felt I could give years ago, as to WHY you might have got an infraction. Though, we did drop some broad hints at the time. 20/20 hindsight is wonderful, though.

It was also, to be honest, not just meant for you but fior what I'm sure is a significant number of others who, like you, either did or wanted to .... um .... vent a bit.

It's not that we didn't sympathise with that. It's that, for various reasons, we didn't want the feud to transfer here .... any more than it already had.

It wasn't meant as a slap, and I'm sorry if it came across that way.


EDIT - It was also meant as an explanation of one of the complexities of moderating.

We positively want, within the rules, to encourage free speech. But sometimes, we have to say no to something, and can't explain why. There have been occasions when even admins haven't been told why, beyond "lawyer's advice", and even we just have to accept that. And no, that doesn't refer in any way to Spie.

But, in an atmosphere where generally, rule-compliant free-speech is king, when we say "no, and we can't tell you why" it's hard to swallow. Isn't it?

It .... chafes. Grates.

We know. But sometimes, it just is.

..............

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and yes some things can be hard to swallow. At the time I didn't understand the wider picture and had just withdrawn from OCUK & another forum because of the dark atmosphere and oppressive moderation and thought Hexus seemed like a breathe of fresh air & fun. Which it was and still is, and when I got the infraction I thought oh here we go again, but at least someone (and I believe it was you iirc) took the time to allude to reasons & background now given above. So thank you anyway...........And no I don't really still carry a chip on my shoulder.....just so we're clear