Apprenticeship, not what i want or was expecting

[PC-LAD]

I have been "Working" for six weeks at my employer and yet to have any training around my job role. The provider has done nothing in order to train me yet as they do it incrementaly (a week every 6, first is due in november) and with "tasks" which i have also yet to have. Both my company and Training provider are unorganized, i feel stuck as the job they have set me is unrelated to anyone else in the office (was not in the description, you could say) and requires assistance from an Indian company (emails and phone calls which are lacking). I was originally going into the RAF but i didn't get the role i wanted and now i'm thinking i should just re-apply, quit my "apprenticeship" and get fit again (avid sweaty cyclist) because I can not maintain my physique on this lifestyle. HELP? P.S. my parents rushed me into it and i didn't want to go to unit. I believe they rushed me as I hadn't had any other offers. I have worked before throughout college so it is not my motivation lacking. Thanks if you can help.

[TeePee]

Do you like the job? Is the career field one which motivates you, but you feel like this company isn't working for you? It's a very different direction from going to the Armed Forces.

[Saracen]

Do you have to quit this spprenticeship to re-apply?

I mean, do you really have to, or is that just sort-of rationalising self-jystification for doing so?

Same with fitness. I struggle to believe that if you really wanted to, you couldn't keep acceptably fit in your non-work hours.

Also, I don't know about now but in my day, the forces looked at more thsn just fitness and quitting, without good reason, may have been seen negatively.


That said, apprenticeship vary. Always have. Some are really superb, some a complete waste of time and many somewhere in-between. One of the things that worries me about government drives yo and incentive schemes gor apprenticeships is that it can lead to false apprenticeships.

On the other hand, 6 weeks is a pretty short time to judge.

This is a rhetorical question, not one you need to answer here but one you certainly should ask yourself - are you going into this apprenticeship with a positive or negative attitude? Are you being as helpful as you can, as positive as you can, looking yo help and learn? Or are you kinda moping around, a bit resentful at being where you really don't want to be?

If you really want the apprenticeship then you need to be keen. But you also need to bear ib mind that virtually all apprentices start out making the tea and that part of what a good boss is looking for is attitude, interest, keenness, etc.


I can't, and won't even try to, tell you what you should do. But I will say that if you have 50+years of working life ahead of you, it helps HUGELY to be doing something you love. Whether that really us the RAF, or whether that is just a kind of childhood fantasy, only you csn know.

[PC-LAD]

Do you have to quit this spprenticeship to re-apply?

I mean, do you really have to, or is that just sort-of rationalising self-jystification for doing so?

Same with fitness. I struggle to believe that if you really wanted to, you couldn't keep acceptably fit in your non-work hours.

Also, I don't know about now but in my day, the forces looked at more thsn just fitness and quitting, without good reason, may have been seen negatively.


That said, apprenticeship vary. Always have. Some are really superb, some a complete waste of time and many somewhere in-between. One of the things that worries me about government drives yo and incentive schemes gor apprenticeships is that it can lead to false apprenticeships.

On the other hand, 6 weeks is a pretty short time to judge.

This is a rhetorical question, not one you need to answer here but one you certainly should ask yourself - are you going into this apprenticeship with a positive or negative attitude? Are you being as helpful as you can, as positive as you can, looking yo help and learn? Or are you kinda moping around, a bit resentful at being where you really don't want to be?

If you really want the apprenticeship then you need to be keen. But you also need to bear ib mind that virtually all apprentices start out making the tea and that part of what a good boss is looking for is attitude, interest, keenness, etc.


I can't, and won't even try to, tell you what you should do. But I will say that if you have 50+years of working life ahead of you, it helps HUGELY to be doing something you love. Whether that really us the RAF, or whether that is just a kind of childhood fantasy, only you csn know.

Thank You. The concept of my job role, Project Management, is interesting and I believed there would be variation and development to be done on projects. Though other peers confirmed that this isn't the case.
I got my qualifications from college in engineering and my intent was to join the raf but i was ill prepared for the test as I had no help (i should have done more research).

I'd been applying for all apprenticeships in the engineering field that weren't maintenance based as that repetitive lifestyle is not for me, i like routine to a point but i have to have variation in things.
After being un-successful in both the RAF and engineer. I decided to look into the business world and what would suit me, project management seemed like a varied job, through structured it has the complements of travel and scale. As this was a new field of work, i decided to look into something based on or close to my hobby (computing).

This was the mistake, i have no background in IT and being overly confident in my skills of self learning i was given the task of researching for the implementation of walk-throughs within the business SaaS product which lead to me creating the content for them. The issue is as there is always going to be new features and i have no code knowledge which is required for segmentation and other things within the SaaS and Walk through package i am unable to do my job combined with the miscommunication from the Walkthrough's Indian office.

On top of that i have training from my provider to start soon and my boss told me what i cover in the course is irrelevant to my final job. I like the idea of being in the construction industry for projects like highway bridges and combining that with architecture ect. In terms of being fit at work, im currently de-energized, i used to cycle alot but i also suffer from hyperhidrosis and drink roughly 2-3 liters of water a day this meaning i would be drenched by the time i get to work.
In order to incorporate cycling i would have to get on my bike at 6 (when i get home) in the evening and ride for 1-2 hours, bringing it to 8 o'clock which is a bad time to eat.
Then as a gamer and someone who is not willing to give that up as a hobby i have to have 2 hours to socialise with friends as weekends are populated by family matters and occasionally reserved for charity rides. I wake up at 6:30 and go to sleep at 10:30 (bed at 10), i used to stay up later at college and fir everything in and now my schedule is messed up, i'm stressed and i can't get help. My parent's wont allow me to leave without having somewhere else to go and i feel bad as the company have taken a 14k investment in me for the walk-throughs which i can't make effectively.

Just stopping everything and working my way up in the military would give me some meaning, My plans seem to just not work out. Thank you for the support again, I basically had nobody to go to. My friends just agree with me and i needed some idea's/conflicts to my own opinion on it all.

[philehidiot]

Nothing worth doing is easy and frankly what you're describing is familiar in that you'll struggle to find any company that isn't a disorganised mess. It's going to seem even worse because there's a reason you've got all the jobs you have - no one else wants to do them because of the issues you have identified and so they've dumped it all on you.

I'd be looking longer term and asking what you're going to get out of this apprenticeship at the end and whether that is worth it to you or not. 6 weeks is a very short time to judge and I don't tend to judge a new job for several months.

Is it possible that you could identify the issues and then work on identifying ways to fix them? You do something like that and take it to your boss and, even if they have already considered your options, it shows an attitude that will likely impress them and perhaps move you away from the dross to some degree. It'll also give you some satisfaction in that you're looking to fix the issues rather than just deal with them constantly. I'd look at someone who did that and go "well his ideas may be rubbish but his attitude is what we need so let's equip him with the knowledge he needs to get better ideas and see what he comes out with". You're never going to get away from the fact you're the lowest of the low right now but you can do a lot to make that experience more interesting and use it to get management to think more about what kind of path to put you on later on.

As for keeping fit, I used to weight train and had to give it up due to injury. There was a gym near work, there was a gym on the way home from work and there was weekends so there was plenty of time. Also if you cycle you could consider cycling to work and back if it's a reasonable distance.

If you really want to be in the RAF then there are plenty of lessons you'd learn in the military you can apply here. First is not giving up because it's awful right now and having the mental and physical stamina to plough on through. Is it hard? Good, nothing worth doing is easy. One of the phrases you'll have thrown at you is "adapt and overcome". You might not be able to change anything about your current situation but you can definitely change your attitude to it and how you approach it in order to get through it easier.

I'd give it a bit longer if I were you, try changing how you approach it, consider how you can improve it and if the long game is looking like something you're going to hate then carefully consider your options before just quitting. I'm assuming there's nothing to stop you reapplying for the RAF / other jobs whilst you're still employed?

[Saracen]

Well, PC LAD, I'm not the one to comment on life in the military, but from what I read of your comments, I'd have a concern. A big one.

You seem to be the type that wants to run your life how you wsnt to. Bit's about "must have variation", and not giving up 2 hours a day of gaming, for instance. I recognise that stance, mainly because I hsve a healthy dose of it myself. It is, in large part, why despite seriously looking at it at age 18-19-ish, and again post-uni, I decided against. I considered it was a bit too structured for my personality and I was likely to end up arguing with a sergeant at some point, which would end badly (for me).

So, consider carefully if you really want to commit to life (for quife a few years anyway) in the forces, or if you just like the idea of it. We have quite a few here that are ex-forces (or, I gather, in some cases, currently serving) and ANY of them would be better placed than me to advise on forces life.

But I'd echo the comments above - think a bit longer-term.

You're at a point in your life now where whatever you do, you're low man on the ladder. I was going to say low man on the totem pole, but I'm given to understand that, on totem poles, the one on the very bottom is the most importanr so that analogy doesn't work.

What you face is perhaps the hardest phase in anybody's life - trying to work out what you want to be and/or do, with beggar-all experience of what it's really like. And believe me, when you find out, it can be an eye-opener.

Take me. I wanted to be an accountant. So, three years of uni later, there I was, training as a chartered accountant, which meant minimum 3 years more study, and doing a job that was not only full-time, but sometimes hit 70 or 80 hour weeks, and you still had to fit in study time if you wanted to pass the exams that would unlock the future. And of top of that, friends that had gone straight into apprenticeships were finishing and earning two or three times what I was.

The real kicker? I learned I hated accountancy.

HOWEVER .... the degree and the accountancy led me to a job that I enjoyed for several more years, including ending up earning 50% more than those that had been earning double or more what I had been.

Then, things took a really oblique turn and I ended up part-time in journalism, then full-time but self-employed, and earning way more than those 9-5 friends, and to top it all, travelling the world, meeting many of the movers and shakers in my area computing) and generally having a wonderful time. The above included, at various times, first-class transatlantic flights, limo, helicopter and even private jet trips. It included meeting everyone from Bill Gates to the CEO of IBM, and many, many more. It involved guided tours round manufacturing and development plants all over Europe, the US and Asia, and eventually, led to advance access to products sometimes 18-24 montbs from public announcement .... like in Apple's labs. That, of course, was under very strict NDA, and sometimes, keeping my gob shut (especially on here) when there was speculation about forthcoming products that I had had hands-on with, was really tough.

Anyway, my point?

Despite nearly going military, then doing uni and chsrtered accountancy, I ended up doing something where neither degree nor accountancy were directly relevant BUT both of which had led, step by step, to my eventual life, and lifestyle, and without which, I can't see any chance I'd have ended up as I did.

So .... working hard, and and phile above said, maintaining the right attitude, will do you well, even if where it leads ultimately is someghing you cannot possibly foresee now.

I can't tell whether stopping the apprenticeship now is right or wrong, but I will say I'm not convinced you've given it adequate time. I'd add that rarely will your worklife go exactly how you want, or indeed, anything like you want. It may be that thd apprenticship truly is a dead end.

But until you're sure tgat it is, and sure that you're leaving for something better, stick your head down, nose go the wheel and work it for all it's worth because you never know where it might lead.

What I will also say is to decide if you want to drift along, taking whatever comes your way, and accepting mediocrity, or whether you are going to grab life by the balls and squeeze what you want out of it. If you do the latter, be aware sometimes life will grsb you by the balls and return the favour. The trick is to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, learn the lessons from it, and get your nose back to the grindstone.

It can be done, and doesn't necessarily need either degrees or apprenticeships, but what it does need is effort, application and determination.


Or, you can ruin, sorry, run your life around being fixed in your exercise regime, and refusing to sacrifice some hours of gaming.

You are at a critical junction, and life is not (short of lottery-jackpot-grade luck) going to hand you an easy pass. You're gonna have to work for it, work at it and learn the lessons.

Here's lesson 1 for free. Few, if any, of us knew when we started how things were going to go. You'll spend most of your life making decisions, like your current one, semi-blind. It won't stop. I'm still doing it now, 40 years on. All you can do is think it through as best you can, then make the decision, enact it and live with the consequences. The one thing you can control is your attitude, your effort, your determination.

[Ttaskmaster]

Both my company and Training provider are unorganized, i feel stuck as the job they have set me is unrelated to anyone else in the office

In order to take on an apprentice, the company will need to supply people to train you, supervise you and all that stuff. This means those people are not working on their own stuff, which costs the company money in addition to whatever they've already invested in you.
You owe them for that and they like to get that money back out of you... even more these days, as you could just get your training off them and then split. In addition, roles like yours will require a working knowledge and understanding of various different areas of the business, for stuff like stakeholder engagement. It's a big element of any kind of management.

I was originally going into the RAF but i didn't get the role i wanted and now i'm thinking i should just re-apply

Much of your service life will be doing things 'not in the job description' and dealing with things outside of your structured, regulated little life, at times and in places that are never what you would have wanted.

Did you look at other options?
I wanted to be a Rockape, but I was too young and they weren't hiring.
I could have been an armourer, technician... even an Officer. Plenty of other cool jobs, few of which are ever exactly as or limited to the recruitment brochure description.

But if you wanted a military career that people took seriously, you'd not be joining the RAF anyway!!

I got my qualifications from college in engineering

We've got all sorts of jobs for Engineering qualified people.
Why do so many Engineering types go into Project bloody Management? Does driving a company BMW mean that much to you?

project management seemed like a varied job, through structured it has the complements of travel and scale.

Travel?
No, you stay in the office, having meetings and pretending like you know what you're talking about. Technical advisors tell you what to do and say to everyone else, Cost & Planning Controllers tell you how much it will all cost, and then your PMR (Project Manager's Representative, formerly known as Clerk of Works) travels out to preach your word... if you're lucky, they'll have your word written on a tablet or two!

i am unable to do my job combined with the miscommunication from the Walkthrough's Indian office.

Welcome to Engineering!!!!!!

On top of that i have training from my provider to start soon and my boss told me what i cover in the course is irrelevant to my final job.

Job requirements change...

I like the idea of being in the construction industry for projects like highway bridges and combining that with architecture ect.

That's all Civil Engineering. That's what we do. This very day I'm looking at pipe bridges crossing highways and railways.
If you want it, find an apprenticeship there.

In order to incorporate cycling i would have to get on my bike at 6 (when i get home) in the evening and ride for 1-2 hours, bringing it to 8 o'clock which is a bad time to eat.

OK, at this point you need to just SHUT UP!!!!!!!

I'm gonna have to get properly harsh with you on this one, and risk a forum Banhammer, but if you're planning on a military career of any kind you NEED this particular virtual smack round the head......

There are guys out there who trained their fitness to such a level that they passed SAS Selection (for 21 or 23 Territorial Squadrons), all while holding down a full-time job and raising a family. They did this purely through self motivation, making the effort, finding the time and just getting on with it. There's no such thing as "a bad time to eat". That kind of nonsense just won't wash. Pull your finger out and get on with it, or give up that line of pursuit and find something else.

There's a saying in the Army - 'Just Get It Done'. It's especially common among those who work alongside Civil Service departments, for obvious reasons, and was one of the things my wife loved best about her career there.

So either you DO want this and will do what it takes to get it, or you don't and are just trying to make excuses when there are none. Decide and then GET IT DONE.

Then as a gamer and someone who is not willing to give that up as a hobby i have to have 2 hours to socialise with friends as weekends are populated by family matters and occasionally reserved for charity rides.

Hold the war, lads - Blokey needs to hop on and play Call of Duty for a bit!!
Yeah, I don't think the military is for you.....

I wake up at 6:30 and go to sleep at 10:30 (bed at 10), i used to stay up later at college and fir everything in and now my schedule is messed up, i'm stressed and i can't get help.

Wow.....
I get up at 6 or 7, work all day, run three dogs ragged, am working on the family thing, help mechanic friends out with their work, go to bed around 2am... and still find time to play Kingdom Come, not forgetting woodworking, doing the food shopping, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

My parent's wont allow me to leave without having somewhere else to go

Err...... you're over 18, right?

i needed some idea's/conflicts to my own opinion on it all.

Yeah, that's usually something for which I can be relied upon...!

Just stopping everything and working my way up in the military would give me some meaning,

Would it not get in the way of all your other hobbies, regulated meal times, sleep schedule and the requirement to do whatever varied things you want when you want, rather than what you're told when you're told without question?

If you still think so, then GET IT DONE, and the best of luck to you!!

Give serious consideration to joining The Rifles or the Royal Marines, though....

[peterb]

Don't think that life in one of the armed services is anything like CoD or other first person shooter!

Apart from anything else, when the enemy fires back, the results may be lethal.

[Gerrard]

What trade are you going for? Comissioned or NC? And what tests did you actually fail?

When I went to the AFCO, I mentioned my fitness was rubbish, but their attitude was that they can change that relatively easily. I think the only thing was to be medically fit. I spent most of my time just about scraping by the fitness test every 6 months. Ironically, I lost a lot of weight (waist went from 36" to 32") after I left, thanks mostly due to the meal times in the mess being an all-you-can-eat buffet of stodge! I joined as an Aircraft Technician (Avionics) several years' ago, so might be able to help. However, I did leave several years' ago to work in F1, so it's not necessarily the only career you'll have when you join and can open more doors. But then I also very much not your typical recruit, as I had a BEng degree which made me better qualified than most of the officers!

Depending on your trade, you'll get posted every 3 or so years, which is why I don't really look back at it as "solid" chunk of my life. It also means it won't necessarily be that repetitive, but at least things will still be constant during the change. Having said that, if you want to stay in an area, some people have been at the same base for vastly longer than that!

I managed to keep my gaming hobby throughout and indeed met other like minded people. There's also other clubs and hobbies you might find are interesting. It's got a kind of university-vibe about it in a way.

But if you wanted a military career that people took seriously, you'd not be joining the RAF anyway!!

Depends how you look at it. From an engineering point of view, aircraft work is a very high standard, so is regarded seriously from an employment aspect.

[Ttaskmaster]

Don't think that life in one of the armed services is anything like CoD or other first person shooter!

Not entirely true... Ever since WW2 Americans have been somewhat wary of working with the Brits, since our lads had the habit of stopping in the middle of a firefight to brew up. You can pretty much do the same in COD/MOG/CS/etc....

Depends how you look at it.

For us?
Up, usually....

From an engineering point of view, aircraft work is a very high standard, so is regarded seriously from an employment aspect.

But not by other arms of the Forces!!

Come ooooooon..... don't tell me the penguins and rocks are all best buddies now? Or that jet technicians don't rip the mick out of helicopter technicians?

[Saracen]

Well, PC-LAD, I did say we had some forces/ex-forces people who could .... ummmm .... comment.

But seriously, listen to them. They've been there, and done it.

[Gerrard]

But not by other arms of the Forces!!

Maybe for the pure "fighting" aspect, perhaps not. But if PC-LAD is after more of the military organisation which is very rigid, for better or worse, then it is as good a choice as any other. I don't get the feeling he is looking for a fight, in which case the RAF might be the better option anyway. I couldn't even volunteer for a tour because you are tied to the aircraft you work on. If they don't go, you don't.

Or that jet technicians don't rip the mick out of helicopter technicians?

Since I was both, no I don't think I encoutered that. You are what you are posted to, and since you can be allocated to any aircraft, or indeed 2nd or 3rd line and not even work on aircraft, you generally mock/moan about the equipment rather than the people. Between trades, sure as you had some choice in that matter.

[philehidiot]

Not entirely true... Ever since WW2 Americans have been somewhat wary of working with the Brits, since our lads had the habit of stopping in the middle of a firefight to brew up.

Ha, sounds about right. I once watched a documentary which had an American ex high ranking occifer on who said that despite all the equipment deficits the one thing the British could always do was make hot water for tea, regardless of conditions or supply. I think it's still a requirement for all British armoured vehicles to have a boiling vessel. Which given they are busy fighting wars in the desert isn't quite as important as it once was...

EDIT - Also I seem to remember in terms of the standard of work by the RAF, it is often an application of speed tape followed by the phrase "it'll do a trip". Interestingly, a similar approach to that which I take to my motorcycle.

[Gerrard]

Ha, sounds about right. I once watched a documentary which had an American ex high ranking occifer on who said that despite all the equipment deficits the one thing the British could always do was make hot water for tea, regardless of conditions or supply. I think it's still a requirement for all British armoured vehicles to have a boiling vessel. Which given they are busy fighting wars in the desert isn't quite as important as it once was...

EDIT - Also I seem to remember in terms of the standard of work by the RAF, it is often an application of speed tape followed by the phrase "it'll do a trip". Interestingly, a similar approach to that which I take to my motorcycle.

I think I saw something similar regarding hot water inside tanks, so they didn't have to leave it in order to make food. Remember, ration packs consist a lot of boil-in-the-bag food, so makes sense from that point.

And yes, speed tape and "It'll do a trip" is quite true. But then tape is an acceptable temporary repair and every time you do any work on any aircraft, if that fails and the aircraft crashes, you can held accountable for manslaughter (in worst case).

[PC-LAD]

I want to thank you all for commenting and giving me the understanding of how my luxuries (being the free time I have and naive opinions) should be sacrificed in this short term before entering my professional career. I Failed on my maths and verbal reasoning tests back in November last year, i was from them on considering other options as no university which offered me the ability to take aeronautical engineering due to lack of other qualifications. It would also seem this is definitely not the line of work for me, I am more tired at the end of a work day due to mental exhaustion compared to doing a 100k ride. I think i just need to get some balls, tell my parents that I AM going for the military and just spend a solid 3 months training to get my fitness back up. If you think I have the mindset of a thirteen year old who likes to play cod, you probably aren't far off in that i like to play games (just not cod). Overall i simply need to get past my parents and the fact i let myself do an apprenticeship what is not suited for me.
One question for those of a military background, is it possible to move from a standard mech role into a officer at a later point and what would transition training be like. Thanks again

[PC-LAD]

What trade are you going for? Comissioned or NC? And what tests did you actually fail?

When I went to the AFCO, I mentioned my fitness was rubbish, but their attitude was that they can change that relatively easily. I think the only thing was to be medically fit. I spent most of my time just about scraping by the fitness test every 6 months. Ironically, I lost a lot of weight (waist went from 36" to 32") after I left, thanks mostly due to the meal times in the mess being an all-you-can-eat buffet of stodge! I joined as an Aircraft Technician (Avionics) several years' ago, so might be able to help. However, I did leave several years' ago to work in F1, so it's not necessarily the only career you'll have when you join and can open more doors. But then I also very much not your typical recruit, as I had a BEng degree which made me better qualified than most of the officers!

Depending on your trade, you'll get posted every 3 or so years, which is why I don't really look back at it as "solid" chunk of my life. It also means it won't necessarily be that repetitive, but at least things will still be constant during the change. Having said that, if you want to stay in an area, some people have been at the same base for vastly longer than that!

I managed to keep my gaming hobby throughout and indeed met other like minded people. There's also other clubs and hobbies you might find are interesting. It's got a kind of university-vibe about it in a way.


Depends how you look at it. From an engineering point of view, aircraft work is a very high standard, so is regarded seriously from an employment aspect.

maths and verbal reasoning, but i was not prepared and with a plenty of test runs it should not be an issue this time. I also wanted to get a engineering degree but my grades were only in a L3 Btec diploma leading for a lack of ucas points, meaning I wouldn't be accepted on a course and for what is needed in an officer role by the requirements set at the recruitment office (the guy who talked me through the on boarding process said i should consider going taking another college course)