Are you not worried about what they'll do with the personal data you inevitably have to give them?Originally Posted by Saracen
But no, thanks for that.
I had a vague understanding of how companies like these actually make money without appearing to really make any.
If ever I win the lottery, can I hire you as my financial advisor?
My most recent experience with EBuyer is as follows:
I ordered a UPS Battery Backup from them as it was a good price.
It was sent using Yodel and I paid extra for next day.
The next day arrived but the package did not.
When I rang Ebuyer next day to find out what had happened as Yodel's system simply displayed that it was out for delivery, they claimed Yodel could not find the address (despite the fact they make regular deliveries to the company next door). I confirmed address and the item arrived later that day but I was not refunded any differnce for next day as it was not guaranteed, no bother as it was around £3.
Upon receiving the item the outer box was undamaged, but when I came to open it discovered the inner box was well and truly damaged with quite a hole. I examined the item and unfortunately some of the plastic casing on the UPS was damaged.
I immediately informed EBuyer with pictures and got an RMA. Because UPS's are weighty it cost £17 to send back with insurance. I was later told by EBuyer and outlined on their website they only refund a maximum of £3.50 on returns. Even though this was damaged in transit, they took the view that because the outer box was not damaged that this was not the case.
https://www.ebuyer.com/terms/returns-policy
I then waited a whole month for a replacement item which they eventually didnt restock and was only offered store credit as a refund. Despite the fact none of this was my fault I felt quite cheated and out of pocket.
I made 1 final purchase from eBuyer to use up my credit and have swiftly ended future business with them.
In stark contrast last year in November I bought some computer parts including a Motherboard & CPU from CCL Computers.
My PC developed a fault around August this year and I had narrowed it down to either the Motherboard or CPU, I reported this to them and they said send the motherboard back. They generated a prepaid postage label for me and I sent it back. They tested the Mobo as OK so asked for the CPU, again sent me a prepaid postage all the while very interested and apologetic at the problem I was having. They found a fault with the CPU and sent back the original Motherboard and a new CPU. All completely free of charge and minimal hassle.
Yes it's not as speedy or convenient as Amazon but I would highly recommend them for after sales care. They were actually interested in listening and treated the customer with respect.
So all those that say to use Amazon instead of eBuyer...
Umm...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-li...A2NIA2CGVBCUK3
Just one of these things available across the whole of Amazon... and you're buying it from eBuyer anyway!!!
On the first, nope, because at most, the 'personal data' they have is public record wnyway, i.e. name and address, and second, what do you think nominee shareholders and Swiss banks are for?Are you not worried about what they'll do with the personal data you inevitably have to give them?
But no, thanks for that.
I had a vague understanding of how companies like these actually make money without appearing to really make any.
If ever I win the lottery, can I hire you as my financial advisor?
So, a lawyer's office in, oh, Caracus buys shares for "a client" in Grand Cayman, in a dozen private 'investment trust' companies, each of which buys shares in a dozen tech companies, certificates held in a Swiss bank. Or, add three extra layers. You'd have a job proving I owned diddly-squat, much less getting personal data.
Your serve.
As for being your financial advisor, by all means. I understand a new tech company, Saracen Corp, looks like it offers .... ummmm .... astonishing returns. I am sure I can get your winni .... erm, investment, in on the ground floor.
Two questions :-
- what branch of the military did you say you were in, and
- do you know what I look like?
For the record, the numbers in my exampke are entirely fictitious, but the basic process is exactly what MS did, with no dividends for years but huge capital growth. And, at least a couple of dozen rights issues each time the share price hit something around the $30-$40 mark. The aim, especially in a new market, is to grow so big so fast that by the time anyone rhinks "I'll have some of that", you're dominant.
As for finsncial advice, if you have ANY potential for savings, it's woryh considering ijcome versus growth. Clearly, risk needs to be a factor too but, assuming you (and potentially, MrsTtaskmaster) are earning a normal salary, you're WAY past the point where Income Tax personal allowances are used by your standard income, so anything that generates incone (unless a tax-exempt vehicle lkke an ISA) is going to get hit at basic, or possibly higher rate tax Cartainly, mainstream UK shares will be, with tax deducted (at badic rste) at source before you ever get the earnings.
But you get a few grand a year of Csoital Gain allowance and most people never use it.
Remember, you only psy CGT whrn the gain "crystalises", i.e., when you sell, and ONLY on the difference between buy price and sell price. Buy at £1000, sell at £1500 and the gain, £500, is tax free. Get that same £500 in dividend income and odds are you pay 20-40% of it in tax.
It doesn't much matter whag you buy. Gold, rare artistic prints, fwncy watches, shares, whatever. Providing what you buy went UP, which is where the rusk comes in, you have a few grand of tax-free money.
So, shares. If you buy a watch, or rare prints, etc, you can't sell hslf a watch or hslf a print. But you csn sell 112 out of 1500, or 15,000 shares.
So if you spot a tech (or any) company you think has huge growth potential and you get in EARLY, if it follows the growth profile of an MS or Uber, or Amazon, etc, you can sell shares a small chunk at a time, naximising each year's CGT allowance. Also, you get your initial investment back relatively early, after which all you risk is uncrystalised growth.
Of course, the earlier you get in the cheaper it will be, but the greater the risk of it blowing up in your face, so it's a good idea to not risk what you can't afford to lose.
But if you get it right, just once, with an MS, Amazon, Uber, Saracen Corp etc, ....
Plot devices in movies starring Matt Damon as an assassin with amnesia?and second, what do you think nominee shareholders and Swiss banks are for?
I though Swiss banks no longer keep information so private, and the Cayman Islands was the place to go now?
Hmm. Sounds legit...
Two questions :-
Branch - Army. Specifically the Infantry. Primarily heavy weapons (machine guns and mortars) as I have a particular (peculiar?) set of skills, but still basic Rifle company.
Err... no, but if Samuel L Jackson starts pointing a gun at me asking that same question, I'm sure I could figure it out...!!
I always imagine you about 5' 6", early 50s, somewhat stocky from an adult lifetime of enjoying farmshop butcher's pies and real ale, slight beard with traces of grey, dark hair receeding and thinning but either with a fresh cut or in need of a good one and never anything between, a face that would suit a witty English teacher and an expression that would suit a bespectacled dragon (as in Grogre the Ogre, for those that read it).
But this is only because you remind me so much of my mate Dave - He and thee share much in the way of mannerisms, manners, opinions, perspectives, phrases and general wit.
I know you're not secretly him, though as he works in IT and makes fewer typos!!
Why do you ask?
Oh wow!
That explains quite a bit, then!
My brother in law is an actuary, so I imagine he knows a fair bit about rusks... and if he doesn't, his wife enjoys baking, but that's only funny from where I'm sitting!
And I assume that's where people call you and my BIL for advice...?
That last one sounds like a rather cool company, especially if you're in a cyber-punk novel... But unfortunately I know the already-existing one and the grammar of their website alone is enough to worry me as an investor!!But if you get it right, just once, with an MS, Amazon, Uber, Saracen Corp etc, ....
Well, it does, and doesn't.
It's a good way for relatively modest sums to be returned tax free, but not for large ones. The annual CGT is only a few grand, but without looking it up I can't remember exactly what.
But IF, for argument's sake, it's £5000, then you can make total, annuall gains of £5 without paying tax, whereas if you had it in earned income, you would. So it ight save you a thousand or so. Useful money to be sure, but not enough to protect millions made from successfully backing an MS, etc.
It does mean if you have some, but not huge, investments you can dispose of, say, £5k per year in total, without tax. But that's not per item, it's per person.
Of course, that's one strategy for tax reduction, but only one. It's also one reason company owners (or directors) might take part of their remuneration in shares rather than dividends. It has tax benefits, but mostly, you control timing. And, of course, shares can go down as well as up.
The big gap for companies originates in those double-tax agreements and that, IMHO, is where much of the so-called corporate tax-avoidance comes from.
The idea, and it's a good one, is that companies operating internationally only pay tax on operating profits ONCE. Not double-taxed. So, suppose you manufacture a widget in the UK but sell it it the US. Do you pay tax in the UK or US. After all, part of the cost of the widget is in design, IP and manufacturing whuch is in the UK, without which, there'd be no widgets to sell. But you sell widgets in the UK and pay tax here in those profits here. The US market is extra, so natural justice says you pay tax on part of US sales in the US.
Now suppose you produce widgets in the UK, thingy's in Germany, doodads in China, and combine them to make a wotsit. And you sell wotsits in the UK, Germany, China, the US, Australia and 15 other countries. Where do you pay tax on what? Because you liability is set up in about 20 different double-tax treaties designed to he fair to all .... until some smart lawyer or accountant sees a possibility the treaty writers didn't .... like a former PM of an EU state seeing a wonderful opportinity to encourage holding companies to relocate to his country and pay 5% rather than 20-30% -in most of the others.
Oh, and typos. Comes largely from typing on a touch keyboard on a small tablet. And too many eye operations.
C'mon, keep up. If, as you requested, I give you investment advice, and especially a prime chance in Saracen Corp, and at some subsequent point you, a "proper"- soldier, should decide you want to .... ermmmm .... discuss your investment, I'd feel much more confident if you don't know what I look like.
So, congratulations, your description is 100% eerily, uncannily accurate. That's me to a 'tee'.
Now, about that investment ....
So just put a black bar across your eyes, like everyone else...
Hiding your face, especially with a balaclava, is only the fashion when everyone already knows what you look like.
Curious, which brand is the graphics card Ebuyer partially refunded? At least with EVGA, Gigabyte, KFA2 (GALAX), MSI and Zotac you can RMA direct with them.
Check this list out I created; I'll update it in the next 24 hours, some have changed for the better >> https://forums.hexus.net/graphics-ca...ally-look.html
Gah, I started typing a bunch of reply, but got too busy to finish it, and the auto-save seems to have left out a bunch of stuff so have to type it again (I probably shortened parts of the replies).
TBH, when possible I just go straight for Amazon. When that isn't possible I will look at the product review alongside seller reviews. And if I have an issue with Ebuyer, I certainly wouldn't buy from Ebuyer on Amazon!
May or may not be, surely.Which is often out of their control anyway, so why punish them for it?
More so on eBay, where a private seller (like me, for example) might not be available every day during post office opening times.
Just as an example, a seller may decide not to keep any stock to minimise the risk of ending up with goods they can not shift, alongside storage cost, and only order from their cheap overseas suppliers. In doing so, they minimise their own risk but the customer pays in waiting time. Any delay with the supplier may be outside their control, but it would still be their conscious business decision to minimise their risk exposure at the expense of their customer service.
And while you may have your own personal circumstances, why would a buyer choose to buy from you, if another seller, who happened to be living right across the post office, and dedicate a much larger part of his/her time selling things on eBay, offering the condition, and guaranteed same day dispatch (unless perhaps, the buyer has a reason for not wanting the item right away)? Assuming that the buyer doesn't know either of you (I know I'd pay a bit more from an Hexite I trust than a random private seller on eBay), it wouldn't be reasonable for the buyer to pick you over someone else with slightly better terms regardless of the reasons.
Well, this was clear from earlier posts, but we clearly differs from this. For me, good service (and above) is something I would be happy to tell my friends about.Problems exist and sometimes just cannot be resolved. So long as I don't come away furious about it, that is good customer service.
No quibble outright refunds on something the customer has clearly abused and busted themselves is not good business sense, and would make me question just how a company is able to afford such a cavalier approach to their profits, or whether they're just idiots.
- "How was that airline"?
- "Well, I wasn't furious, therefore it is good"
Can't see that work, and even if I was to say that, the person would likely not be particularly drawn to said airline. The impression would at best be neutral (but I suspect that my standard would be called in question).
Onto the second point, yes, I know there are customers who abuse customer service (experienced that as recently as yesterday). Likewise, there are also disreputable sellers out there. The vast majority of people though, I would say are honest, just want a trouble free transactions. The reason buyers stick to well known sellers is because buying from the unknown can be stressful. The buyer part with the money first and need to concern themselves as to whether the seller is legit. Whereas the seller may worry about the buyer busting the item then making a claim, the buyer would worry about doa, or dead shortly after arrival through no fault on their own. etc. Even with the law on your side, and assuming you can bring the one responsible to court, it is still a lot of time people would rather not have to waste. No quibble refund provide the ultimate peace of mind (provided the item arrives), and while it can be abused, it won't be the huge majority of time simply because buyers usually buy something because they need it, not for having a laugh at costing the seller money (not even Amazon could absorb that much of damage if it was more common than not). I understand this is no consolation for smaller operations without the mean to absorb those costs, but I don't think it is the fault of those that can shift the volumes either.
Well, the reason I like having the choice isn't for the sake of having the choice, but because I worry that without choice, the player dominating the market can start to take away what made them more competitive than the rest of the market in the first place. But if the rest of the market can't compete head-on and isn't able to carve a niche that enables them to survive, then there isn't much I can do. I want AMD to stick around, but they've got to give me something that I want, or other people want, that neither Intel/nVidia offers.It's best done by addressing your own business though, not killing off the competition so people have no choice but to use you... People like having choices.
That is what I mean by carving a niche. And I am perfectly fine with that. Still, for e-tailers, I think it is probably harder to stand out, simply because there is far less human interactions. Personally, I just want peace of mind (item arrives within the stated timeframe short of extenuating circumstances, it is and worked as described, and I also want peace of mind that I won't be left stranded if the unfortunate happens for reasons not of my own doing).They just have to be good enough. A great many local businesses here remain trading not because they're cheaper, or because they get there first and steal business off the others, but because they're good at what they do and deliver top service in ways that people enjoy using them.
Ultimately, both the sellers and buyers "want" something. We can dress it up and spin it to make it sound like some want is good or bad, but I can't fault anyone for wanting a stress free transaction. Unfortunately what is stress free from one party may become a burden for the other.
From the equivalent of PoundLand, to airlines to luxury hotel, I honestly think there is no comparison compared to the UK. Especially if you take an average (no outliners). I don't think it requires much abuse to get people to do what they do over there. Most who grow up in a given environment would have normalised that environment. So if you grow up surrounded by a generally high quality of service everywhere, you would expect that is what you need to do if you were to work in the service industry too.Not that big a jump - Such levels of service exist here and in many other countries, but behind the scenes you have people being driven to collapse in order to meet high demands and make things look good at the front, by slave-drivers that make Gordon Ramsey's F-laden abuse torrents look like a massage by comparison.
So it stands to reason that Japan would have a similar stress level behind theirs.
I think it would be irresponsible to jump to any conclusion without first removing other major factors affecting the quality of work there. The work environment isn't perfect, it is a discussion I have done with plenty of Japanese in fairly great length, but most would rather keep their quality of service while making changes on other issues. Of course, there are also those who find it all a bit too much, and would rather stay in Europe or elsewhere overseas, but I do find them a pretty significant minority.
I might see what I can find out when I have the time. But it isn't exactly a growing workforce (with the rapidly ageing population), and with the low unemployment rate, I don't see the workforce as particularly "disposable".No, they're not. But how high is the staff turnover in their service industry, compared to other countries known for their high-standards? Or rather, how easy is it to replace a burnt-out employee with a fresh one?
Ah, but it does happen. The thing though, is that there is often very little to complain about, but I have seen it in public when the staff didn't provide the level of courtesy expected (this isn't even about return, or the product, just the courtesy). And one look at online reviews (Amazon, Japanese e-tailer review sites, etc.) and you'll find just as much critics. They -tend- to be more polite, especially offline (I've never seen the kind of outburst Saracen witnessed over there, nor do I could I really imagine it), but they do let their displeasure known especially if it is service related (I think where they are less confrontational is on more personal matters).Japan is rather renowned for not doing such things openly or in public, though....
Not unthinkable, like doing a dance around the room in my name before handing me my drink. But when I say improvement, I do mean improvement, not bloat.Is there a customer service equivalent of Bloatware?
Having seen what some of these reviewers have written, and their reasoning behind it, I can't believe some are even allowed on the internet without an adult... Amazon are great for people like that, but really anything I might want, that isn't a JML product or an e-book, can usually be found elsewhere for better prices and with far better customer support!
But if you're buying from Ebuyer through Amazon, are you not entirely covered by the wholly awesome Amazon customer service?
Might is a more hypothetical or speculative term and leans toward things not happening. May is more concerned with high probabilities, and is a permissive term referring better to things that do happen.
In this case, I'm talking about not being available, therefore might.
Why in-deed.......................
When you could spend just 2-3% more and deal with a human being face to face, walk out of a shop with your item that same day, be guaranteed of having a genuine product rather than a knock-off, have 3 months warranty, be able to just nip back and query problems, walk away with a direct (or better) replacement the same day without expensive return postage and so many other advantages...... why with all this, would people then *insist* on buying from places like Fast-Tech, who take 2-3 months to deliver, frequently sell clones and knock-off versions of what you thought you were buying, ignore emails or just offer discount vouchers instead of refunds or replacements wherever they can (play roulette to see which you get, if indeed any)......?
Why, I ask you?
Why, when their saving of £2.23 on a £25 item is all the benefit they get?
I certainly don't know, but people are doing this in droves rather than supporting local B&M shops or even UK based businesses in general.... Is there some kind of student protest I don't know about?
I frequently do. Most of the time, it's just polite service that makes the difference. No silly policies about unquibbled refunds or anything like that. But then I'm both old and somewhat old-fashioned, I suppose. I value things like manners and competence over treating me like my money is the very lifeblood upon which both they and I exist.
I generally find about 60% of the human race are dishonest, untrustworthy, abusive chancers who will take two miles if you give them an inch.
Not at all now. The slightest problem, and PayPal/eBay/Whoever will just refund you everything.
Which happens an awful lot, as do subjective disagreements over things like descriptions, and even full-refund (including postage) claims on 'non-working' items which are only non-working because the buyer didn't read the instruction manual... for something that only has one button.... but of course despatch and return postage is both at the seller's expense, and the buyer sent the item (minus accessories) back in a carrier bag instead of the box it was made in, yadda yadda.....
That's why you have to be careful about which shops you use. No different to the days before the internet, really...
It's common enough that no-one I know still sells on eBay unless they absolutely have to... Most of them use other sites for their businesses, if they haven't already set up their own by now. Cheap stuff just gets donated to charity or flogged down the car boot sale, as it's not worth selling in such a toxic market place.
That's why they put as much of that onto the smaller sellers as they can.
Which is very much Amazon's MO.
I don't think AMD could ever hope to compete, really, especially if they insist on trying to be first on everything. ntel just learn from AMD's mistakes, have more money to chuck at R&D and then come out with a better product.
A lot of that is from unrealistic expectations in the first place, though. If I've used and abused something for 23½ months out of the 24 month warranty period, I'd never expect to be getting it fixed or replaced, let alone think I'd get any money back for it... More likely to sell it for spares. Looking at how badly people look after their stuff, especially when they think they can get a complete refund or brand new replacement, I'd never want to be in the retail business.
Even without offering customers the world on a plate, retail is considered unskilled work with a high staff turnover, mostly young people looking for pocket money. Few of them take enough pride in their work to make it a career and even fewer end up in high-end retail, where money really talks... These are all pretty average people, and the same ones who are customers at all the other shops. They really don't give as much of a flip as you seem to think, and the resounding success of low-budget cattle-market shops like Poundstretcher, Poundsaver, Poundland, Primark, Asda and Tesco strongly suggest that many people do not give the slightest toss about customer service.
Yes, but culture changes, as seen by the budget-market shops like those above.
Companies spend loads of money trying to 'improve' customer service, but rarely does it ever actually change. People here either want good manners, and/or low prices. I doubt they want much beyond that, as a general rule.
Last edited by peterb; 31-10-2018 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Text to talk friendly
That is not the point though, for as long as the grudge I hold against a company stands, I will, to the best of my ability try to avoid their products or service. So if Amazon was to rub me the wrong way, I would also avoid not just the shop, but the Kindle too. Now I am under no illusion that they are going to lose any sleep over what I do, but I will stick to the principle as long as it isn't too impractical.. which can happen. Suppose I have a strong reason to dislike nVidia.. or AMD, or both. It might be tough to avoid all their products. And I would be quite torn if they decided to work join up with a company I am partial towards, say, for the purpose of making a new consoles. But with e-tailers, it is usually not an issue. There are enough alternatives to go around so far.
Hang on a second. I was quite specific with my example, in order to keep it orange to orange. You stated that you had circumstances that prevents you, a private eBay seller, from being available during post office opening time and it isn't really your fault. I am fine accepting that it isn't your fault, but I am saying that IF there was another private seller, in a more favourable position than you for the purpose of being an eBay seller, happens to sell the same item with pretty much all the same condition as you with the added bonus of being able to guarantee same day dispatch, then there is seldom a case why a stranger could rationally pick you, over that seller.Why in-deed....................... [...] I certainly don't know, but people are doing this in droves rather than supporting local B&M shops or even UK based businesses in general....
The part of the reply I didn't quote is definitely a different can of worm. In your specific scenario, I'd pay the £2.23. However, what if it was an extra £10? £15? £20? Or what if, like me, the person do not have a car, and the item I want is fairly bulky and need a pretty long commute (e.g. a full desktop tower with all the parts for a build)? On the other hand, if I am right across a shop that sell what I need, sure I would pay a small premium if I am happy with their service. Case by case, and the more apple to orange you go, the more that is going to be. That said, there is no guarantee that just because a shop is local that you will necessarily get fantastic service, and there are certain things that you can seldom go wrong online. Case by case. I will quickly note that I have no place for nationalism when it comes to picking what or where I buy. I am one of those weirdos with family from America to Australia and have considered many places my "home" so I buy.. well, whatever I want based on my impression of the product/service.
Well, I could tell that you are more cynical than I amI generally find about 60% of the human race are dishonest, untrustworthy, abusive chancers who will take two miles if you give them an inch.
I am not here to change your mind (not going to happen). For what it's worth, I am way more cynical than my parents (I sometime worry they may fall for a phishing scam one day; I suspect that they believe that 98% of the people are good.. even though they've gotten bitten a few times and do business in places where it pays to be more careful than places we are more used to). Personally I think that a lot of people may watch you bleed, but most aren't out there to stab you. Not in the literal sense, but I don't think that most people will try to rip you off, but you do have to watch for yourself.
No offense intended, but I can't really see the service industry suitable for you with that kind of worldview. I can't imagine you being happy dealing with customers, nor can I imagine customers being happy being served by someone who might see them as potentially trying to rip you off. I dare say that the claim department of the insurance company might be one of the best place for that sort of cynicism.
If the very, very large amount of things I've bought outlast warranty period by years, then either I have been exceptionally lucky or warranty period are actually quite conservative and it can be expected not to die before the warranty runs out. And that is the case, then I do not consider it unreasonable to have the item fixed, or get a replacement be it new or refurbished (which I would consider most fair to both parties). Now, I should note that I do not expect warranty to cover for things that is explicitly stated not to cover. I think that most warranties are worded quite carefully to exclude damage as a result of negligence, abuse etc. etc.A lot of that is from unrealistic expectations in the first place, though. If I've used and abused something for 23½ months out of the 24 month warranty period, I'd never expect to be getting it fixed or replaced, let alone think I'd get any money back for it... More likely to sell it for spares. Looking at how badly people look after their stuff, especially when they think they can get a complete refund or brand new replacement, I'd never want to be in the retail business.
As to people not looking after their stuff.. I am not sure. I imagine it is another one of those case by case with certain type of goods being typically better cared for by their owners. In my limited experience, I've found home cinema items and camera lens to have a decent chance of being well cared for especially for their age. Though I would definitely inspect the goods before parting with my cash. At the same time, the number of smashed smartphone screens I've seen do make me wonder just how careless some people are (watch me jinx myself and drop my phone on concrete tomorrow).
Well, I've used eBay for about 10 years, both as a buyer and seller in roughly equal measure and was lucky enough not to have to deal with any bad cases (*).. but decided to quit while I was ahead. Horror stories from both sellers and buyers put me off, as well as the increasing fees.Which happens an awful lot, as do subjective disagreements over things like descriptions, and even full-refund (including postage) claims on 'non-working' items which are only non-working because the buyer didn't read the instruction manual... for something that only has one button.... but of course despatch and return postage is both at the seller's expense, and the buyer sent the item (minus accessories) back in a carrier bag instead of the box it was made in, yadda yadda.....
[...]
It's common enough that no-one I know still sells on eBay unless they absolutely have to... Most of them use other sites for their businesses, if they haven't already set up their own by now. Cheap stuff just gets donated to charity or flogged down the car boot sale, as it's not worth selling in such a toxic market place.
(*) For full disclosure I did have a low value item that didn't arrive, and another fairly inexpensive item that arrived with the old battery completely decayed and stuck in it, and I gave up trying to get it out. In both case, I didn't want to open a dispute over something of such low value, fearing that it would affect potential claims on more expensive items. But overall, I was able to snatch more good deals to make up for those duds, so not too bitter about my eBay days. And a seller I've been fortunate enough never having a problem (but I am also done rolling that dice).
Ah, but when I try to make a comparison, I try to pick like for like. So when looking at Poundland I will compare it with my experience at 100 Yen shops in Japan. I'll compare BA with JAL or ANA, EasyJet/Ryanair with Peach or Vanilla etc. Now of course, it is not like I make it a hobby to compare customer service, and sometime some of my poorer experience in the UK might have been due to the very timing of when I happened to be there. As an example, I decided to just browse a Poundland while waiting to meet up with a friend in the area, and I saw the staff stacking the shelf started grumbling and swearing when the things he was stacking fell of. Other staff were more interested gossiping amongst themselves then paying the customer any heed. In Tesco, I've had the change tossed in my hand. Big deal right? Yeah, nothing I will lose any sleep over. But as those things happened shortly after a five years stay in Japan (during which I didn't come back to the UK a single time), I couldn't help think "Yeah, this would definitely not cut it in Japan.. I kinda forgot that".Even without offering customers the world on a plate, retail is considered unskilled work with a high staff turnover, mostly young people looking for pocket money. Few of them take enough pride in their work to make it a career and even fewer end up in high-end retail, where money really talks... These are all pretty average people, and the same ones who are customers at all the other shops. They really don't give as much of a flip as you seem to think, and the resounding success of low-budget cattle-market shops like Poundstretcher, Poundsaver, Poundland, Primark, Asda and Tesco strongly suggest that many people do not give the slightest toss about customer service.
Yes, but culture changes, as seen by the budget-market shops like those above.
Companies spend loads of money trying to 'improve' customer service, but rarely does it ever actually change. People here either want good manners, and/or low prices. I doubt they want much beyond that, as a general rule.
I want to note that despite my appreciation for high quality service, I do occasionally appreciate places that may be known for (perhaps even notorious for) being a bit rough. Though on top of my head, those tends to be restaurant, and I need to be sort of expecting it (or it has to be obvious as I head in).
I'll finish off with this video:
https://youtu.be/wu2zxcO023w?t=973
You might find it OTT, and or say that of course they are going to show someone saying what she says.. And while it would be silly to insinuate that all Japanese share that level of pride at what they do (regardless of whether it is skilled or unskilled work, or even work related activities at all), I've definitely seen a lot more of that over there, than here. And I've allowed that to influence me, as I think that it is the right attitude to go about. People are encouraged to give their all for the benefit of others, while also benefiting from others giving their best. Alternatively, you can have everyone giving crap all about others, and get crap all from others. Both system are "fair", both have their pros and cons (having to "give your all" does with pressure you wouldn't have from not giving a crap), but I know which one I rather have. I also note that the first system can't work if 60% of the people try to cheat one another.
Personally, I wouldn't compare BA/ANA (etc) with budget airlines and expect identical frills, though both fly you from A to B. Though personally, I've used ANA for Japan, and typically AA for the US, not least due to Admiral's Vlub mrmbership on the latter. I'd only use Easyjet if my first choice airlines don't fly there, and you eon't catch me setting foot on a RyanAir flight. I'd rather walk. Or just not go.
But, by snd large, my view is that really good CS costs the company, so I expect to only get it where economies of scale make it possible, or for smaller companies, the price gives a margin that pays for it.
What I expect ftom ALL is courteous and professional staff, and primarily thst :-
- the product I bought does what it should, and
- if it doesn't, the problem will be dealt with with miminal argument, and minimal hassle from me.
That hassle avoidance is worth a bit more on the price. It's like an insurance premium. Nobody likes paying it, but when something goes wrong, it pays to have good quality cover, snd adequate provision.
Well it was, because Amazon are awesome and will always look after their customers with their stunning service, you see....
Then I guess I'm going out of business, because someone in slightly better circumstances can offer what you consider to be a higher standard of customer service.
Game over, I lose.
But then people buying second hand junk off eBay will often just buy whichever item comes up first and looks right, in order to not lose out. It's an online jumble sale, not Harrods, in which case I win.
On an item at that price, that would be insane and highly unlikely.
But so what if it was?
You're still gonna have to wait months for something to arrive, with no support, no warranty or honouring of such, not even a guarantee that it will be a genuine product... all so you can potentially save a few quid.
Shops that sell such things do tend to offer delivery facilities of their own, you know.... !
Err, no. That was the point. Good customer service is just that. It's not case-dependent.
Not at all what I was saying, but yes you are completely right and I concede all points..... All hail Amazon.
Who the heck mentioned nationalism??!!
I'm not waving a flag, here, I'm pointing out the insanity of choosing lower prices instead of good customer service.
I have been exceedingly open-minded and given plenty of people plenty of chances, benefits of doubts and all that... I found as described. If their actions make me cycnical, then whatever. I prefer to think of myself as not stupid enough to let myself get burned time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again......Well, I could tell that you are more cynical than I am
You'll find many will stab you, often without looking, but that most won't hang around to see if you're bleeding in the first place. They don't care if you're bleeding, so long as they get their stab in.
You're absolutely right. I'd better post up that I'd never want to be in the retail business..... oh, wait, I already did.
But as it happens, I was pretty decent in past service roles. My views on people were almost never proven wrong, and in fact were themselves born from working in service roles. Beforehand, I was a happy-go-lucky idiot. Then I saw what people can really be like and that's where the cynicism happened - It's based on experience, not simply belief.
In concept perhaps, but the reality is there is one law covering it, so there has to be one rule for all items, which tends toward what a reasonable human would expect.
Yes, but, complete refund, because Amazon......
They're shops. They sell stuff. They have humans working in them. They're all like for like.
I've known the same treatment from high end shops in London central, Waitrose, Aston Martin dealers.... all places with humans, really. Because good customer service depends on the humans, not goods being sold or prices being charged.
Because that is another culture with an entirely different set of values, which subsequently dictate the systems of customer service. Here we favour low prices or good manners.
This is a dog-eat-dog nation when it comes to business and anyone going extra miles for free can expect to be torn apart by other businesses undercutting them. They tend not to be the norm because the vast majority of such businesses do not survive, because that's not what people want.... and those few who do either cater to a tiny niche that just about allows them to stay afloat, or charge so much that they can afford it.
This is the problem politicians have when they trial a new idea and say, "It worked wonderfully in Norway".... because this isn't Norway, mate. You try that here, they'll rip your head off.
In some places they have people dressed up in animal costumes, reminding everyone not to drop litter. Try that in downtown Cape Town or Joburg on a Saturday night..... !!
I have done exactly the same with Scan, all over a case that came without a switch. Customer rep accused me of blackmailing them when I said I was voting with my wallet and the wallets of people whose pc's I look after. I reckon its conservatively lost them about 4k in sales over last year or two.
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