Beware of Ebuyer Warranty, partial refund after 6 months.

[Ttaskmaster]

I reckon its conservatively lost them about 4k in sales over last year or two.

£4k over 2 years?

With respect to your good self, Scan have a 2017 turnover of £113 million... https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/c...tional-limited

[EtheAv8r]

Customer Service..... this is why I buy from John Lewis whenever I can... If what I want is available from JL, they will inevitably get my business, and that has been so for the past 45 years. Recently the keyboard on my iPad Pro Apple cover/keyboard stopped working and the iPad kept issuing "The attached device is not supported" messages. The iPad and cover were bought from JL in Cambridge. They had a 2 Year warranty. The failure occurred at 2 years 3 months.... I took it back to JL to see what could be done, without hesitation they checked stock level and thought they had 1 left - it is no longer available and has been discontinued -and set off to the stock room to find it. They were going to simply exchange the dead one for the new replacement.

Unfortunately the computer stock did not match the physical stock and there was no replacement available, so they simply gave me a refund of the entire original £120 purchase price. I did not have to hassle, argue or even request it - they just did it.

That is why I always buy at John Lewis if possible.

[watercooled]

£4k over 2 years?

With respect to your good self, Scan have a 2017 turnover of £113 million... https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/c...tional-limited

I'm not taking any sides on this WRT the companies mentioned, but the sort of arrogant attitude you mention could easily bring down a company's reputation and therefore sales in the long run. Companies pride themselves on good reputation and customer service, and in the e-tail world where there's often little difference in price between companies, a small difference in perceived reputation can be a make or break deal. And don't forget, unhappy customers are far, far more likely to make any comment at all regarding service, and it doesn't take many annoyed customers to make a lot of noise online!

It's why you see companies publicly apologising, offering vouchers, sending surveys, getting the complaints team to give you a call, etc. especially if a matter is brought to public attention, even if they're not necessarily in the wrong legally - as you say they're probably not too bothered about losing one customer in monetary terms, but treating customers with disdain is hardly successful PR.

So yes, a company should absolutely care about why they're losing each and every customer!

[Kumagoro]

I have used eBuyer and Scan a lot in the past and were my go to places for stuff. I now no longer use either mainly because of posts like this and ones in the past. I never had issues with Scan that I remember but stories I have seen here and else where have put me off and I never use them any more. With eBuyer I had the part use rip off happen a few years ago and that was the last time I used them.

My go to company for parts now is CCL https://www.cclonline.com/ I haven't had issue with them myself but I have heard good things about them when other people have. Also they are one of the cheapest as well and prices are similar to Amazon, eBuyer and often better.

I may not spend a great deal of money however in the places I have worked I have had them stop using eBuyer and Scan.

Most people are not going to state that they have been put off using a company and will just quietly switch.

[Ttaskmaster]

It's why you see companies publicly apologising, offering vouchers, sending surveys, getting the complaints team to give you a call, etc. especially if a matter is brought to public attention, even if they're not necessarily in the wrong legally - as you say they're probably not too bothered about losing one customer in monetary terms, but treating customers with disdain is hardly successful PR.

But equally there comes a point when ranty little children need to be spanked and sent to bed without any dinner.
Case in point, just about every thread entitled (in every sense of the word) something like, "Don't ever buy Asus/MSI/Scan/Billy-Joe/Tesco products, like, ever again"..... I usually just ignore those, as I suspect most people do.

For me, it's when customers think they can refuse me access to their property for works. If I don't do my job people will die and usually within a matter of hours, yet it's amazing how many customers still refuse access because they don't want to risk boot prints in their rose bed. Fortunately we have legal rights and the option of dialling 999 for emergency Police enforcement... retailers not so lucky.

So yes, a company should absolutely care about why they're losing each and every customer!

Care, sure... but they don't have to roll over and suck the slime off the boots of every customer, particularly those taking the mick, just because they're spending a couple of quid.

[watercooled]

I don't disagree with that, just not the part about ignoring customers because they seem insignificant monetarily when view in isolation.

I definitely agree about the 'I've had one faulty item from X or Y, so I will never buy them again and will complain about them on every forum possible' posts. Getting something faulty is annoying but some people assume that one faulty item means a bad company, and some other company they've anecdotally never had a problem with, is totally perfect.

Emergency access to private property. I can only assume something to do with gas? Or if outdoors possibly a DNO?

[Saracen]

£4k over 2 years?

With respect to your good self, Scan have a 2017 turnover of £113 million... https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/c...tional-limited

To be fair to GaryP, very, very few individual customers buy enough to influence any major corporation.

However .... if genuinely poor customer service causes one customer to react like that, there's a very strong probability it isn't an isolated case, and a decent chance it's common. And if so, it could be many thoysands, or hundreds of thousands, of £4k's.


But there's more than that. It's a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" kind of principle.

I have a list of companies I will not deal with. And, with me, it's certainly not about receiving a single product. A duff product can happen to anybody, and you can't read much into it. But how a company handles a complaint can be highly illuminating.

An example.

Many years ago, I bought some computer books which had software in it. I was VAT-registered and can reclaim the VAT on purchases provided I have a receipt detailing it. Now, books are zero-rated, but the software inside some isn't. I asked for a receipt detailing this. And it wasn't much. A couple of quid in VAT, but it's MY couple of quid, not the very large book chains.

The sales assistant told me there was no VAT on books. I agreed, but pointed out the above. After going round and round a few times, she called the manager, who told me, there's no VAT on books. Aaaargh. So, I explained it again, pointing out that when a VAT-registered person or body (me) requests a receipt for goods containing VAT (the books) they are legally required to produce one. Dunno, he said, I'll ask head office. When, says I, sndche tells me the next morning,

So, I wait about a week and having heard nothing, went back in. He tells me head office said there's no VAT on books. Blooming 'eck, I think, are they thick or what? It's the software in them that has VAT, not the book, like I've told you about 20 times now. Well, he says, nothing I can do about that, and that's an end of it.

I told him "We'll see about that".

So, I rang what was HM C&E, VAT division, and ended up talking to the account director for this bookseller and it's parent company. I asked him how he felt about a VAT-registered person repeatedly being refused a receipt I was entitled to, and it happened to me, did he maybe think it was systematic by the bookseller, and .... perhaps .... deliberate, maybe?

I might also have happened (), accidentally-like, to mention I was a journalist and maybe it'd be a basis for a good little story. And I'm pretty sure I mentioned I'd had a dinner with his ultimate boss a couple of weeks before, and was due to again next week. What, the boss at HM C&E, he asked?

Nope, the Chancellor of thd Exchequer, I told him. There was silence for a moment or two while that sank in. So, he says he'll look into it.

The following morning, I had a call from him saying the bookshop will be in touch. I thanked him. An hour later, the bookshop's finance director rang, wanting to know if I'd like the receipt mailed to me, or did I want to pick it up from the store, and many apologies forcthe misunderstanding. I opted go collect from the store, and specifically the manager, from whom I expected an apology for not just being wrong, but the very brusque and borderline snide way he'd spoken to me. The finance director told me the receipt would be waiting, and the manager "expecting me".

He was. And I have to say, he was very chastened. I don't know what had been said to him but his manner certainly suggested he'd been on the receiving end of a Grade 1 ass-chewing.

That shop never made that error sgain. Or at least, not with me.

But had they had decent customer service and a less snide attitude, none of that should have been necessary.


Oh, and the bit about lunch with the Chancellor? Yes, it was true. Kinda. It had been about 3 weeks earlier and was due again the following month. And no, the Chancellor (Ken Clarke, at that time) wouldn't, I'm sure, have given a left-handed flying fig or been remotely interested, in my VAT issues. But the name-drop certainly appeared to focus minds.

[Ttaskmaster]

I don't disagree with that, just not the part about ignoring customers because they seem insignificant monetarily when view in isolation.

Depends on the customer.
Certain phrases are frequently [CENSORED] triggers, indicating that the customer is somewhat unreasonable, and the earlier in the proceedings these phrases get played, the more likely the customer is to be disregarded.
"Do you know how much I spend with you?" is the same as "Do you know who I am?", really.... If you were that important we'd already know who you are and how much you spend. Having to ask me just tells me I don't need to care.

Emergency access to private property. I can only assume something to do with gas? Or if outdoors possibly a DNO?

Water, actually. Mainly where it impacts railways, where your track possession is allocated to the nearest 15 seconds, and any trains subsequently passing through the area with issues have a good change of being derailed.... but there are other high risk areas, too.

However .... if genuinely poor customer service causes one customer to react like that, there's a very strong probability it isn't an isolated case, and a decent chance it's common.

Again, depends....
If one customer reacts like that and we roll over for them, only to find more customers start acting like that, then I expect they're all trying their luck based on the first one posting their victory on forums.
If we ignore the first one or two, but it keeps happening, then it's something to take notice of.

All in proportion, though. That's why you look at reviews in terms of percentages that rated you a 1 or 2 versus those that rated you 4 or 5.

But there's more than that. It's a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" kind of principle.

It also works both ways - It's a common thing for 'Customer Service Tricks' to be posted online about specific industries or even companies, like insisting on speaking to XYZ manager, or threatening to leave, or telling them your Blah Sensor is reporting a 1234-code fault..... People take the pee and try their chances, so companies try not to get fooled as well.

I have a list of companies I will not deal with.
But how a company handles a complaint can be highly illuminating.

As do we all, I'm sure, and I agree.

But had they had decent customer service and a less snide attitude, none of that should have been necessary.

But that's my idea of customer service, which is just basic good manners and taking the mere 30 seconds it usually requires to sort things out... made even easier by a documented legal requirement, in this case.

It's a far cry from kow-towing to a ranty customer that changed their mind on a product and expects, nay demands, a full refund and loads of freebies for the inconvenience of having to actually use their words and explain their supposed problem... If you want someone to make you feel like royalty just because you bought a £10 flash drive from them, you're on the wrong planet.... or at least in the wrong country.

[badass]

It's a far cry from kow-towing to a ranty customer that changed their mind on a product and expects, nay demands, a full refund and loads of freebies for the inconvenience of having to actually use their words and explain their supposed problem... If you want someone to make you feel like royalty just because you bought a £10 flash drive from them, you're on the wrong planet.... or at least in the wrong country.

Nice straw man you've built there

[Saracen]

Depends on the customer.
Certain phrases are frequently [CENSORED] triggers, indicating that the customer is somewhat unreasonable, and the earlier in the proceedings these phrases get played, the more likely the customer is to be disregarded.
"Do you know how much I spend with you?" is the same as "Do you know who I am?", really.... If you were that important we'd already know who you are and how much you spend. Having to ask me just tells me I don't need to care.


Water, actually. Mainly where it impacts railways, where your track possession is allocated to the nearest 15 seconds, and any trains subsequently passing through the area with issues have a good change of being derailed.... but there are other high risk areas, too.


Again, depends....
If one customer reacts like that and we roll over for them, only to find more customers start acting like that, then I expect they're all trying their luck based on the first one posting their victory on forums.
If we ignore the first one or two, but it keeps happening, then it's something to take notice of.

All in proportion, though. That's why you look at reviews in terms of percentages that rated you a 1 or 2 versus those that rated you 4 or 5.


It also works both ways - It's a common thing for 'Customer Service Tricks' to be posted online about specific industries or even companies, like insisting on speaking to XYZ manager, or threatening to leave, or telling them your Blah Sensor is reporting a 1234-code fault..... People take the pee and try their chances, so companies try not to get fooled as well.


As do we all, I'm sure, and I agree.


But that's my idea of customer service, which is just basic good manners and taking the mere 30 seconds it usually requires to sort things out... made even easier by a documented legal requirement, in this case.

It's a far cry from kow-towing to a ranty customer that changed their mind on a product and expects, nay demands, a full refund and loads of freebies for the inconvenience of having to actually use their words and explain their supposed problem... If you want someone to make you feel like royalty just because you bought a £10 flash drive from them, you're on the wrong planet.... or at least in the wrong country.

It's not a sign of good customer service to just cave in to unreasonable demands, and yes, some people will just try it on. But nor is it good customer service to fail to be professional with customers. For instance, when some idiot backed into my brand new car, the dealer (a very large BMW agency) kept me waiting weeks for a repair. After 3 weeks of getting nowhere, I asked what the hold up was, to be told because it was an M-series car, there weren't any new wings in the country. I blew a fuse and told the dealer that if BMW cannot supply a new wing for a brand new M3 for three flaming months, they shouldn't be selling the cars and I was quite happy to go home and ring BMW HQ and tell them that.

Well, believe it or not the dealer magically managed to locate a wing snd I had the car back 72 hours later, instead of the 2 more months they'd told me.

Personally, I strongly doubt the hold up was anything at all to do with BMW supplying wings but for some reason, the dealer was jerking me about.


Nobody likes objectionable customers, but sometimes the old adage that it's the squeaky wheel that gets oiled holds true.

I figure that about 95% of the time, you get better service with sugar than vinegar, and if you start out politely, you can always fall back on .... ummm .... a more aggressive approach, but it doesn't work the other way round.

However, sometimes you have to jump up and down and scream a bit to get their attention.

[Ttaskmaster]

Nice straw man you've built there

Care to explain that assertion, or are you just shooting blind?

But nor is it good customer service to fail to be professional with customers.

I wasn't arguing against that at all...

Nobody likes objectionable customers, but sometimes the old adage that it's the squeaky wheel that gets oiled holds true.

Customer Servicers are still human and there is a limit, though, at which point the squeaky wheel just gets thrown out the door.

[Saracen]

....

Customer Servicers are still human and there is a limit, though, at which point the squeaky wheel just gets thrown out the door.

There are ways to "squeak" and ways not to, whether in person or by phone. And, of course, I only squeak when I have good reason to squeak. But assuming I do have genuine reason, the ultimate expressikn of disatisfaction is a County Court claim. And I always keep that option in the back of my mind, which then imposes a requirement for ypu to demonstrate you have been reasonable thtoughout.

"Squeak" doesn't mean csusing a scene (necessarily) and certainly doesn't mean swearing, etc. And, so far, long before I've got anywhere close to being thrown out the door, I will have reverted to email and/or (recorded) postal mail.

But I'll give you an example of "squeaking".

Many years ago (286 days), I bought a Dell PC. Well, after a fairly brief period I noticed it wasn't kerping time, by which, I mean off by hours, per day. On complaining, I was told CS would get bavk to me. A couple of werks later, I rang again, got the same result. So another couple of weeks later, I tried a third time but asked for a manager. The CS msnager did ring me back, and said they sere awaiting new boards. Seversl more werks and two more calls from me and I was still getting nowhere so I rang and asked to speak to "Complaints". The CS director passed me to a Technical director, who confirmed that what had hzpoened was due to a shortage of some components (a crystal, a few diodes, etc) lower spec ones had been used and they were waiting for high spec ones but they were coming direct ftom US msnufscturing. I could take 6 weeks.

So, about 3 months later I received a cstalogue for new systems, including a foreword from the (then) UK MD, Martin Slagter, in which he boasted about their dedication to customer service. By then, I'd been waiting some 10 months, had had unumerous phone calls (all logged, date/time, name, content of call) and the last few, recorded.

So I rang Dell, asked for the MD's secretary and, on being put through, told her I had a complaint that was still unresolved after nearly year and a dozen and a half calls .... could she give me a number to fax her a letter to show Mr Slagter, as a last attempt before I passed it to my solicitor. She said "I can do better thsn that. I'll give you the number for his personal fax, which sits on his desk".

So I wrote a polite but pointed note, outlining cslls and contacts on an attached appendix, and asking him if that was what he meant by "dedicated attention to customer service" in his foreword to their recent brochure.

Well ....all hell broke lose about an hour later. The Technical director had evidently had an uncomfortable chat with his MD and said to me "I wish you'd come to md first, I could have sorted this". So I reminded him of the three (dates and times given) I had spoken to him, the promises made and broken, and asked, still politely, just how many chances did he expect, before I escalated.

So, next day, a replacement brand new mavhine arrived, upgraded (IIRC) from 8Mhz 286 to 25Mhz 386. Also, as this was in the days of exact hard-drive parameters needing to be selected in BIOS, and my drive had parsmeters no longer supported, a free and much larger HD despite having not bought the previous drive from Dell.

So, in that example, being a patient non-squeaky customer achieved nothing beyond repeated brush-offs.

But, a carefully worded, professional but polite "squeak", delivered to the correct person resulted, ultimately in a very satisfactory oiling.


Oh, and another point - not only a judicious squeak, but to use an unplsasant metaphor, direct to the organ grinder, not the monkey. First rule of sales - identify the devision-maker, to "squeak" to.

[Ttaskmaster]

There are ways to "squeak" and ways not to

Yes.... but a notable percentage of people have no idea how to squeak, though, with a large percentage of that percentage having no justifiable cause for squeaking in the first place. It would be foolish to think that every single complaint is a genuine grievance and it's always the company in the wrong... and yet, that does seem to be the case most often. Why companies even bother trying to please such people, I have no idea. I don't consider it unprofessional to stand up for youself, call people on their blatant mickey taking and tell them where to stick it - I can do it as a mechanic, soldier, road worker, CEO, author, actor, etc... so why should it be any different as a retailer?

"Squeak" doesn't mean csusing a scene (necessarily) and certainly doesn't mean swearing, etc.

Not everybody realises this, though... and you're the sensible type of person who is unlikely to every try it on, or expect something totally unreasonable, much less the sort who expects far too much just because they kick off a storm from the outset.

[Fahad78]

Wow and I just got a monitor from them recently, hopefully the monitor doesn't mess up.

[TooNice]

Personally, I wouldn't compare BA/ANA (etc) with budget airlines and expect identical frills, though both fly you from A to B. Though personally, I've used ANA for Japan, and typically AA for the US, not least due to Admiral's Vlub mrmbership on the latter. I'd only use Easyjet if my first choice airlines don't fly there, and you eon't catch me setting foot on a RyanAir flight. I'd rather walk. Or just not go.

Typing on a phone over lunch / dinner mean that some of my replies might not be as well written as I'd like. I meant in my previous post:

"I'll compare (BA with JAL or ANA) OR (EasyJet/Ryanair with Peach or Vanilla) etc."

Peach and Vanilla are two low cost carrier in Japan (though I believe that Vanilla is a subsidy of ANA). My point really was that I do believe in comparing like for like, but find myself liking Japanese airlines to British ones, or more generally, East Asian airlines to Western ones. My brother also seem to share that preference. He often has to do UK-Hong Kong for work, and do everything he can to be put on Cathay instead of BA. It does come down to the perceived service. I do not try to avoid BA completely, nor would I call them bad, yet I haven't used them in years due often having another (non budget) airline I would rather fly with. But even in low cost carrier, I just favour the Japanese ones to Ryanair/Easyjet (admitedly, Easyjet isn't anywhere as bas as Ryanair, and I can stomach flying with them, but I also find them beat compared to the Eastern counterpart).

- the product I bought does what it should, and
- if it doesn't, the problem will be dealt with with miminal argument, and minimal hassle from me.

That hassle avoidance is worth a bit more on the price. It's like an insurance premium. Nobody likes paying it, but when something goes wrong, it pays to have good quality cover, snd adequate provision.

I am on that same page. While Amazon prices are often amongst the more competitive, they aren't -always-. Yet I would rather pay more even if it is cheaper elsewhere even in their own marketplace, simply because of the minimum hassle in my experience so far.

@Ttaskmaster

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately for those who may not be that interested in us running in circle with walls of text), I lost a nearly completed reply to your earlier reply (auto-save doesn't quite work that well on mobile), but it all comes down to the fact that Amazon service mean that I haven't had to lose any sleep when things have gone wrong, something I can't say for all etailers.

How Amazon sustains their business (legally), how easily abused their policies are, what we individually think that customers should get if something goes wrong within warranty period, our faith in humanity etc. made for a briefly interesting discussion, but considering how long it took me to get back to this thread, it is fair to say that I do not have much time to jump through hoops right now. Truth to be said, if a hassle free option isn't really available I will likely just write it off as a loss (which is something I have to deal with in the country I am in now).. But when I am elsewhere, with etailers with Amazon-like policy (doesn't -have- to be Amazon), I will shop with them even paying a premium for the peace of mind and time saved. Other etailers may be fully justified (subjectively or objectively) to operate otherwise, but it means as much to me, as the loss of my custom to them.