Page 10 of 17 FirstFirst ... 78910111213 ... LastLast
Results 145 to 160 of 264

Thread: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

  1. #145
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,526
    Thanks
    504
    Thanked
    468 times in 326 posts

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    The two are not mutually exclusive.

  2. #146
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,932
    Thanks
    171
    Thanked
    383 times in 310 posts
    • badass's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS P8Z77-m pro
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 3570K
      • Memory:
      • 32GB
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 850 EVO, 2TB WD Green
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon RX 580
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX520W
      • Case:
      • Silverstone SG02-F
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 X64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Del U2311, LG226WTQ
      • Internet:
      • 80/20 FTTC

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    Just another chapter in the pressure put on my life by the politicians. Please let me explain

    My wife is from Ukraine, as some of you probably know. She moved to the UK in 2012 same year we were married, in July 2012 we needed to convert the fiance visa to a spouse visa. We tried to make an appointment to get this done but they were booked up for over 5 months well after the visa would have expired, the visa was only 6 months total. So we were given a choice, to do a postal application where my wife could not have a passport and leave until complete (average time was 6 months) or re-apply as a new marriage visa.

    My wife was due to be a bridesmade at her best friends wedding so relucatanly she chose to reapply as a new application for a marrage visa, but she needed to stay in Ukraine while the application was processed. On application the immigration services they told us the wonderful new rules, something they had failed to inform us of just a month before. That I needed to earn 18,600. But my wages were 18,250. Tragic but I had a pay rise on they way, I scraped through at 18,660.

    So 6 months and few thousand pounds later my wife was allowed to rejoin the country. she was allowed to stay on a marriage visa as long as I earned the 18,600. In 2015 I lost my job the only other job I found in Sheffield was paid 18,000. So consequenty we got a letter telling me my wife has to leave the UK by September 5th 2015 or face deportation.

    We left with a loan, we lived in a tent for 2.5 months in the Netherlands, because we could not find accomodation. With the money running out we decided to try Barcelona, I found a job. We have have been there since Nov 2015.

    At present we could try to apply under the "Surinder Singh" visa (not that we want to return to the UK now anyway) But, the UK, after no deal (and non-complience with ECHR) could do what it likes and deport anyone that is not born a UK citizen so it's not worth the risk. We want to stay in Spain now, we are tired and it's taken it's toll.

    So no deal could mean (If Spain decided so) that we either have to move to Ukraine or split up and me return to the UK, and she would need to return to Crimea (now Russia not Ukriane)

    If the latter happens.. Farage, Banks, Murdoch, Harmsworth and all the other super rich brexiteers better invest in a bunker. And anyone that voted for brexit is off the Christams card list for good.
    Still, life must be a lot better now as you've just spent over £1000 on a new gaming computer https://forums.hexus.net/pc-hardware...ml#post4050668
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

  3. #147
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    2,038
    Thanks
    339
    Thanked
    209 times in 143 posts

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    Still, life must be a lot better now as you've just spent over £1000 on a new gaming computer https://forums.hexus.net/pc-hardware...ml#post4050668

    I love the way you you vistited my profile to find my latest post so you could prove me to be a fraud, I mean buying a PC in 2018, must therefore mean i coudn't possibly have lived in a tent in 2015.

  4. #148
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    3,895
    Thanks
    935
    Thanked
    971 times in 717 posts

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    Just another chapter in the pressure put on my life by the politicians. Please let me explain

    My wife is from Ukraine, as some of you probably know. She moved to the UK in 2012 same year we were married, in July 2012 we needed to convert the fiance visa to a spouse visa. We tried to make an appointment to get this done but they were booked up for over 5 months well after the visa would have expired, the visa was only 6 months total. So we were given a choice, to do a postal application where my wife could not have a passport and leave until complete (average time was 6 months) or re-apply as a new marriage visa.

    My wife was due to be a bridesmade at her best friends wedding so relucatanly she chose to reapply as a new application for a marrage visa, but she needed to stay in Ukraine while the application was processed. On application the immigration services they told us the wonderful new rules, something they had failed to inform us of just a month before. That I needed to earn 18,600. But my wages were 18,250. Tragic but I had a pay rise on they way, I scraped through at 18,660.

    So 6 months and few thousand pounds later my wife was allowed to rejoin the country. she was allowed to stay on a marriage visa as long as I earned the 18,600. In 2015 I lost my job the only other job I found in Sheffield was paid 18,000. So consequenty we got a letter telling me my wife has to leave the UK by September 5th 2015 or face deportation.

    We left with a loan, we lived in a tent for 2.5 months in the Netherlands, because we could not find accomodation. With the money running out we decided to try Barcelona, I found a job. We have have been there since Nov 2015.

    At present we could try to apply under the "Surinder Singh" visa (not that we want to return to the UK now anyway) But, the UK, after no deal (and non-complience with ECHR) could do what it likes and deport anyone that is not born a UK citizen so it's not worth the risk. We want to stay in Spain now, we are tired and it's taken it's toll.

    So no deal could mean (If Spain decided so) that we either have to move to Ukraine or split up and me return to the UK, and she would need to return to Crimea (now Russia not Ukriane)

    If the latter happens.. Farage, Banks, Murdoch, Harmsworth and all the other super rich brexiteers better invest in a bunker. And anyone that voted for brexit is off the Christams card list for good.
    I feel for your situation, but would just point out that whike, as you say, a 'no deal' exit could mean that, it also "could" improve her chances of UK immigration clearance.

    So far, about all we know about post-exit immigration rules is that they'll be determined in Westminster rather than at least partially by EU treaty. That's part of the "sovereignty" thing.

    It' s at least plausible that, if EU citizen's chances and non-EU cutizen's chances of getting UK immigrant status are equalised, then any reduction in EU citizens chances implies, via a level playing field, an increase in a Ukrainian citizen's chances. Asuming you both wanted to come back here.

    What must be truly horrible is the uncertainty of not knowing how either of you will be viewed, in Spain, after a no deal exit.

    It's no secret that I'm firmly in the Brexut camp, but among everyone I know that feels similarly, there is NO antipathy towards EU citizens, or indeed any other immigrants, living here .... legally.

    And even if there's a no-deal exit, I can't think of a single good reason why the two sides, UK and EU, can't at least reach a side-deal to mutually protect each other's existing citizens living in the other side. To do so would seem to be pointlessly petty, vindictive and just downright nasty, for no reason.

    It is not, after all, the fault of any of those citizens that, in big picture terms, the EU wanrs "ever-closer integration", a US of E or whatever we call it, and the UK doesn't.

    I guess as a Brexiteer, that means no card, then? Good job, then, that I gave up sending cards about 20 years ago, and actively sought to stop anyone sendjng me cards even earlier.

    Ditto presents.

    But if I did want a Christmas present, it'd be that we could get on with Brexit with a lot more lught and far less heat, than the lasy couple of years.

    What would no-deal mean for me? Far too soon to tell, because it depends on whether there's rancour or not.

    A good no-deal means we simply leave, and return to the status of an independent 3rd-party country, and a substantial economy, that happens to have already strong ties in many areas, from security, to trade to culture, with the EU.

    There is no reason why future relations cannot have a considerable degree of mutually beneficial goodwill provided

    a) the UK doesn't ecpect to leave and retain the benefits we had from being in, and
    b) the EU, especially the Commission, doesn't seek to be obstructive and punitive for having the cheek to leave.

    We should be able to work together, because it's mutually beneficial, in a respectful way, where the EU respects our independence and the UK respects that membership perks, like the single matket, are for members, nit ex-members,


    Do that, and even a no-deal brexit doesn't need to be antagonistic. And mutual recognition of each sides ex-pats is a good start.

    But I'm far from confident any exit, deal or no deal, will be done in a spirit of mutual respect. And if not, well only time will tell what no deal means for me, beyond that I would certainly react to an antagonistic attitude from the EU by being, in as far any any individual can, as antagonistic as I can right back. That would include, for instance, breaking the habit of several decades of buying German cars and boycotting, wherever possible, EU products, and also never setting foot in an EU country again .... several of which I would badly miss. But if it's a nasty exit, so be it. Wouldn't be my choice, but then, I'm not running Brexit.

  5. #149
    OilSheikh
    Guest

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Ukraine is not part of the EU. I don't see how Brexit would affect j1979 , apart from his choice to stay in Spain.

  6. #150
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    31,023
    Thanks
    1,870
    Thanked
    3,381 times in 2,718 posts
    • kalniel's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
      • CPU:
      • Intel i9 9900k
      • Memory:
      • 32GB DDR4 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 970Evo+ NVMe
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia GTX 1060 6GB
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic 600W
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master HAF 912
      • Operating System:
      • Win 10 Pro x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2721DGF
      • Internet:
      • rubbish

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by OilSheikh View Post
    Ukraine is not part of the EU. I don't see how Brexit would affect j1979 , apart from his choice to stay in Spain.
    That's precisely how it will affect him, as he says.

  7. Received thanks from:

    j1979 (24-12-2018)

  8. #151
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,932
    Thanks
    171
    Thanked
    383 times in 310 posts
    • badass's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS P8Z77-m pro
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 3570K
      • Memory:
      • 32GB
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 850 EVO, 2TB WD Green
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon RX 580
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX520W
      • Case:
      • Silverstone SG02-F
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 X64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Del U2311, LG226WTQ
      • Internet:
      • 80/20 FTTC

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    I love the way you you vistited my profile to find my latest post so you could prove me to be a fraud, I mean buying a PC in 2018, must therefore mean i coudn't possibly have lived in a tent in 2015.
    Wow. Lots of putting words into my mouth. I merely suggested that things must be better now!
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

  9. #152
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    3,895
    Thanks
    935
    Thanked
    971 times in 717 posts

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by OilSheikh View Post
    Ukraine is not part of the EU. I don't see how Brexit would affect j1979 , apart from his choice to stay in Spain.
    Unless I misunderstand j1979, as follows :-

    - currently, j1979 and therefore his non-EU wife live in Spain, by virtue of his EU rights as a Brit citizen, while UK is in EU.,

    - following Brexit, esp. no-deal, UK citizens might lose EU residency rights they currently have, and

    - while as a Brit, j1979 has a right to return here, that doesn't necessarily apply to Mrs 1979, who (as I understand it) is neither a UK nor EU citizen and would therefore require a VISA to get into the UK, which has proven tricky so far, and possibly even to stay in Spain, which might mean ...

    - he has to come back here, and

    - she might have to return to part of Ukraine now annexed by force by Russia.


    And that is a horrible degree of uncertainty to be facing.

    Currently, given May's 585-page deal, their situation ought to be stable as it currently is, but if no deal ..... all bets are off.

  10. Received thanks from:

    j1979 (24-12-2018)

  11. #153
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    2,038
    Thanks
    339
    Thanked
    209 times in 143 posts

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Unless I misunderstand j1979, as follows :-

    - currently, j1979 and therefore his non-EU wife live in Spain, by virtue of his EU rights as a Brit citizen, while UK is in EU.,

    - following Brexit, esp. no-deal, UK citizens might lose EU residency rights they currently have, and

    - while as a Brit, j1979 has a right to return here, that doesn't necessarily apply to Mrs 1979, who (as I understand it) is neither a UK nor EU citizen and would therefore require a VISA to get into the UK, which has proven tricky so far, and possibly even to stay in Spain, which might mean ...

    - he has to come back here, and

    - she might have to return to part of Ukraine now annexed by force by Russia.


    And that is a horrible degree of uncertainty to be facing.

    Currently, given May's 585-page deal, their situation ought to be stable as it currently is, but if no deal ..... all bets are off.

    Exactly!

  12. #154
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    2,038
    Thanks
    339
    Thanked
    209 times in 143 posts

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by OilSheikh View Post
    Ukraine is not part of the EU. I don't see how Brexit would affect j1979 , apart from his choice to stay in Spain.
    Yes, so basically after my wife was told to leave the UK, our options were to move to another EU country where I am not a citizen (but to become a resident).

    Under these circumstances my wife can stay in that EU country, provided that I got either a job (within 3 months of arrival), or enough funds for private healthcare and can be self supportive.

    To live in the UK with my wife, i must have a Job that earns 18,600 regardless of what she earns. Where as in any other EU country I just need a job, it's doesn't matter how much I earn, so long as I am not a burden on the state.

    It's the same for a French person with a non EU spouse living in France (they must adhere to the French rules on immigration) but if they move to another EU country, the EU rules come into force, and the spose can stay and can work so long as the EU citizen has a job or is self supporting.

    A French guy living in London, with a American wife has to conform to the underlying EU rules on the spouse right to residency, as he is not a UK citizen just a UK resident... where as a British guy living in London with a American wife must adhere to the UK rules on his spouses residency. It's only if the British guy was to move to Paris would he have to adhere to the EU rules not the French rules.. It's the same accross the EU.

    That creates the Surinder Singh visa loop hole, where the UK citizen can move to Paris with his American wife for a period of time, then when he returns to the UK after said period living in France, he is no longer classed as a UK citizen for visa purposes, thus being able to settle without with his wife without having to earn 18,600. He just needs to be self supportive.

    In my case i could return to the UK now get a minumum wage job and my wife could stay too, but a no deal Brexit could mean the UK can backtrack from these EU rules and kick my wife out once more. But after being forced out in the first place neither of us want to return to the UK. Ideally we want to saty in Spain, and no deal could also make that scienario impossible.

  13. #155
    Hexus.Jet TeePee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Gallup, NM
    Posts
    5,367
    Thanks
    131
    Thanked
    746 times in 442 posts

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    It's an awkward 'what if' scenario. On the plus side, Spain is a significant destination for Britons moving abroad, and there are hundreds of thousands of Britons living there, so the chances of blanket deportations is very small. In the longer term, when you qualify for it, establishing Spanish residency and future citizenship should be your goal if you want to remain there. I'm a firm believer in becoming a citizen of the country you want to call home, with all the rights and obligations that entails. Of course, that doesn't help much right now. Hopefully any change which does come will be slow.

  14. #156
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,526
    Thanks
    504
    Thanked
    468 times in 326 posts

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    Exactly!
    Gisela, Boris, Micheal and the Leave Alliance promised UK citizen rights would be protected in the event of the UK leaving the EU so i guess you have nothing to fear.

    Apparently the loss of UK citizens rights was project fear and hysterical.

  15. #157
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,932
    Thanks
    171
    Thanked
    383 times in 310 posts
    • badass's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS P8Z77-m pro
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 3570K
      • Memory:
      • 32GB
      • Storage:
      • 1TB Samsung 850 EVO, 2TB WD Green
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon RX 580
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX520W
      • Case:
      • Silverstone SG02-F
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 X64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Del U2311, LG226WTQ
      • Internet:
      • 80/20 FTTC

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    Yes, so basically after my wife was told to leave the UK, our options were to move to another EU country where I am not a citizen (but to become a resident).

    Under these circumstances my wife can stay in that EU country, provided that I got either a job (within 3 months of arrival), or enough funds for private healthcare and can be self supportive.

    To live in the UK with my wife, i must have a Job that earns 18,600 regardless of what she earns. Where as in any other EU country I just need a job, it's doesn't matter how much I earn, so long as I am not a burden on the state.

    It's the same for a French person with a non EU spouse living in France (they must adhere to the French rules on immigration) but if they move to another EU country, the EU rules come into force, and the spose can stay and can work so long as the EU citizen has a job or is self supporting.

    A French guy living in London, with a American wife has to conform to the underlying EU rules on the spouse right to residency, as he is not a UK citizen just a UK resident... where as a British guy living in London with a American wife must adhere to the UK rules on his spouses residency. It's only if the British guy was to move to Paris would he have to adhere to the EU rules not the French rules.. It's the same accross the EU.

    That creates the Surinder Singh visa loop hole, where the UK citizen can move to Paris with his American wife for a period of time, then when he returns to the UK after said period living in France, he is no longer classed as a UK citizen for visa purposes, thus being able to settle without with his wife without having to earn 18,600. He just needs to be self supportive.

    In my case i could return to the UK now get a minumum wage job and my wife could stay too, but a no deal Brexit could mean the UK can backtrack from these EU rules and kick my wife out once more. But after being forced out in the first place neither of us want to return to the UK. Ideally we want to saty in Spain, and no deal could also make that scienario impossible.
    What are you going to do about it?

    You have 3 choices I can think of right now:

    Do nothing. Wait. Rely on politicians to sort this mess out. Blame everything on bad luck if/when it all goes wrong. Tell yourself there's nothing you could have done.

    Take your and your Wife's fate into your own hands. Look into citizenship rules for Spain. They are probably quite demanding but you might be able to qualify. If not, look into other EU countries rights and processes for applying for citizenship. Start making a plan.

    Take your and your Wife's fate into your own hands. Look into your career. Is there a way to get paid more than the £18,600 required in the next year or so? Even overtime options may be enough. Otherwise look into learning options - the type of learning that has a direct impact on employability and earnings potential.
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

  16. #158
    MCRN Tachi Ttaskmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Posts
    6,917
    Thanks
    673
    Thanked
    806 times in 668 posts
    • Ttaskmaster's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Aorus Master X670E
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 7800X3D
      • Memory:
      • 32GB Corsair Dominator DDR5 6000MHz
      • Storage:
      • Samsung Evo 120GB and Seagate Baracuda 2TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Aorus Master 4090
      • PSU:
      • EVGA Supernova G2 1000W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li V3000 Plus
      • Operating System:
      • Win11
      • Monitor(s):
      • Gigabyte M32U
      • Internet:
      • 900Mbps Gigaclear WHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    b) the EU, especially the Commission, doesn't seek to be obstructive and punitive for having the cheek to leave.
    I really don't expect them to do otherwise, TBH. It's like a divorce, basically - This whole 'deal' thing is not about arranging any actual deals... just finding out what the EU will charge us for leaving.

  17. #159
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    3,895
    Thanks
    935
    Thanked
    971 times in 717 posts

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    I really don't expect them to do otherwise, TBH. It's like a divorce, basically - This whole 'deal' thing is not about arranging any actual deals... just finding out what the EU will charge us for leaving.
    Well, perhaps so, but really, we're talking about the "no deal" scenario here.

    As I understand it, come March 30th next year, unless either May's deal gets signed off by Parliament, OR some other option gets sufficient support to enact legislative changes through Parliament, OR we manage to get an Art.50 extension (which requires unanimous agreement from EU members) then, we'll be out with no deal.

    Short of massive volte-faces by liads of MP's, May's deal is dead. Currently, there doesn't seem to be adequate support for any one alternative option, and extending Art.50 may have an unpalatable price-tag attached, such as fishing rights, or re:Gibraltar by Spain.


    So IF we leave with no deal, what then would be the EU commissions attitude? Punitive, or pragmatic?

    Dunno, but I suspect reasonably pragmatic, especially on citizen's rights.

  18. #160
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    6,585
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    246 times in 208 posts

    Re: What would "No Deal" mean for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    Just another chapter in the pressure put on my life by the politicians. Please let me explain
    I was actually a bit curious about what happened to you / you wife after the Crimea event. Not much else to say other than hope it works out somehow. The end of freedom of movement doesn't impact me nearly as it has the potential to impact you, but it nevertheless has a very real impact to my own future (certain options are now.. well, will be closed off).
    Last edited by TooNice; 25-12-2018 at 02:52 PM.

Page 10 of 17 FirstFirst ... 78910111213 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •