I Apologise

[TeePee]

Ah, but there's a difference between a thread about Brexit, and a thread about Brexit threads.

But .... point taken. This thread isn't about either.

True. Lets make this a thread about threads about Brexit threads!

[Saracen999]

True. Lets make this a thread about threads about Brexit threads!

Me 'edd hurts.

[Saracen999]

There is, and it's weird. Because people take very strong stances, when the vast majority of people are fairly moderate. I'm pretty sure we can all agree there are a lot of good things about being a part of Europe, and a lot of bad things too. Some have the opinion that the good outweighs the bad, some have the reverse. The hard liners are few and far between. Yet people like to defend their position and get very upset when challenged.

But then I guess it joins the list of 'Single-issue' political opinions, like Abortion, that upset people even when they take a moderate opinion.

Abortion and the death penalty were among the "contentious" issues I've had discussions on.

[blueball]

Post no longer needed, Admin please delete

[blueball]

Post no longer needed. Admin please delete

[Saracen999]

As discussed can we please keep Brexit discussions out of this thread or I am going to throw an absolute hissy rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishing fit!!!!!!!!!

References to .... that .... removed. Point taken.

[g8ina]

OK, rather than have this thread turned into more Brexit stuff, I think it has run its course, now locked.

[g8ina]

Blueball has asked for the thread to be reopened, so I have, but lets keep on topic please guys n gals.

[blueball]

The great bit is that as we have had children after the war we have passed on illnesses to our kids!!!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...drome-13911872

https://www.theguardian.com/theguard...uardianweekly1

My daughter , born 1993, suffers a lot from this.

[Saracen999]

Blueball and I have been talking about this, and I'm not going to say much here because it'd be embarrassing for the admins to have to ban a former admin for foul language. Suffice it to say that what was done to him and his co-soldiers, and therefore to their kids, is disgusting. That any government or gov department could treat our military this way truly makes my blood boil.

/off to stick my head in the fridge.

[philehidiot]

That any government or gov department could treat our military this way truly makes my blood boil.

/off to stick my head in the fridge.

The problem is that whilst individual morality is often just fine, corporate morality is seriously lacking. The individuals are usually drowned out as this big, amorphous entity goes and does horrific things. And we still don't have a solution to that. We saw such things being done over 70 years ago by the Japanese (I still haven't mustered the balls to read the book I bought on Unit 731 - the Wiki article was bad enough) and the Germans but we still haven't managed to stop it. When I did my psychology qualification it was drilled into us that each and every one of us would almost certainly have been a guard at a concentration camp if the authority demanded it. I think that's something that should be taught to all high school students - that society / authority can be intrinsically evil, will recruit you willingly and that you must be aware of this and able to resist it. But we don't and people just do as they're told or manipulated into doing.

Blueball is one of many victims of this kind of problem that individuals will want to solve but it requires change on the level of the government and, as I've just pointed out, the morality of the large organisation is sick and twisted and really doesn't want to change. Otherwise, how will it get what it wants?

Maybe it's the expression of the Jungian shadow in all of us that expresses itself in an environment where personal accountability is muted and where we are separated from the consequences of our actions but, I suspect it's more than just that.

[blueball]

The problem is that whilst individual morality is often just fine, corporate morality is seriously lacking. The individuals are usually drowned out as this big, amorphous entity goes and does horrific things. And we still don't have a solution to that. We saw such things being done over 70 years ago by the Japanese (I still haven't mustered the balls to read the book I bought on Unit 731 - the Wiki article was bad enough) and the Germans but we still haven't managed to stop it. When I did my psychology qualification it was drilled into us that each and every one of us would almost certainly have been a guard at a concentration camp if the authority demanded it. I think that's something that should be taught to all high school students - that society / authority can be intrinsically evil, will recruit you willingly and that you must be aware of this and able to resist it. But we don't and people just do as they're told or manipulated into doing.

Blueball is one of many victims of this kind of problem that individuals will want to solve but it requires change on the level of the government and, as I've just pointed out, the morality of the large organisation is sick and twisted and really doesn't want to change. Otherwise, how will it get what it wants?

Maybe it's the expression of the Jungian shadow in all of us that expresses itself in an environment where personal accountability is muted and where we are separated from the consequences of our actions but, I suspect it's more than just that.

It's as if this never happenned

Thnks, good response

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...g-1234292.html

[blueball]

but this is important!"

https://forums.hexus.net/general-dis...ml#post4084934

[blueball]

"When I did my psychology qualification it was drilled into us that each and every one of us would almost certainly have been a guard at a concentration camp if the authority demanded it."
I remember watching a programme about this experiment (was it the 70's?) and the guards became absolute monsters!

[philehidiot]

"When I did my psychology qualification it was drilled into us that each and every one of us would almost certainly have been a guard at a concentration camp if the authority demanded it."
I remember watching a programme about this experiment (was it the 70's?) and the guards became absolute monsters!

Oh that was even worse. That was Zimbardo who took participants and randomly assigned them to role of prisoner or guard. The experiment was stopped as the guards became sadistic and the prisoners were becoming victimised. They reproduced it as a TV show recently I think but I never saw the outcome as... I hate TV.

Interestingly and conversely, there was a book about some Polish police in WW2 who were trained by the SS and had them doing horrendous things. Culminating in shooting a naked pregnant woman in the back of the head in a field. The stuff they were doing was making them physically and mentally ill and they didn't want to do it. It was all voluntary - they could leave at any time. The main reason they stayed was because they couldn't leave their friends to to all the horrific work alone.

The drivers that cause people to behave like this any to do these kinds of things are multiple and complex. I think what it often needs is a molevolent psychopath somewhere in the structure but, as Zimbardo showed, sometimes it's just the end result of the role(s) we are assigned.

[SeriousSam]

I wouldn't use Zimbardo's experiment as an example due to the fact that there are serious questions about its validity. That doesn't mean I disagree, as you only have to look at what happened with sections of the Police in Poland during WW2. There is a Walter White in all of us...