Boris is Boss

[spacein_vader]

Turning London into a state can't come quick enough for me.

Having been there a week ago I can confirm that London is already in a right old state.

[Saracen999]

Last I checked, Spain's action wasn't sanctioned by Brussel. And I haven't seen any "EU army" occupy our parliament trying to stop us from leaving.

And who knows what -would- happen if Scotland try to push for independance only for the government to suppress it. I guess that "Responsible for the breaking-up of the Union" is not on the top of the list of what British PM want on their CV.. Or be told "Told you so" when people say that Brexit would endanger the Union, but polls suggest that amongst those who back the PM, beliefs tend to range between "Regretable but worth the cost" to "Don't let the door hit you on the way out" (in a more colourful way), and Pro Union no longer enjoy the lead. So the "will of the people" may well consent to the break up of tge union. Politically, it may be great for the government, as without the very alienated SNP, it will be much easier to get a majority. It might even widen the Brexiter majority the rest of the UK (even more so if NI also leave.. I'd throw in London too, alas the geographical realities..).

I do however note that the situation in Spain would make it unlikely that Scotland would be allowed in the EU in the foreseable future, but looking at where the direction the UK is heading, I think that there is much greater political will for Scotland to work as closely with the EU as possible without being a full member than the rest of the UK so I would take my chance with that if I had a say. Whether I would qualify to vote if/when indyref2 happens is a large question mark, but I have gone from against leaving to 50/50 to in favour of leaving.

Two points there.

Scotland - not really anything to do with Brexit. Oh sure, Scotland voted mainly remain, but on the indepence question, the SNP were pushing for it long before Brexit, and would still be pushing for it even if the Referendum had said "Remain". It's just another whip to hit Westminster with. Did Brexit make independence more likely? Maybe. Bring another Scottish IndyRef forwards a bit - very possibly, as the SNP won't want to wait for Brexit to be done and gone, whatever the result.

In the last bit, ...

....

work as closely with the EU as possible without being a full member ....

There's nothing inconsistent with that objective and Brexit. Assuming, cor sake of argument, we either Leavr in a few days, or even a bit later and even without a deal, the EU will stkll be a near neighbour and share many, many common interests.

There's no reason not to work as closely as possible, though how close that is is certsinly not just our call. It depends on the EU worming closely with us, too. Will they? On my view, they will want to work as closely as possible, but how close that is will never be as close as being part, and will be determined by what they view as thrir best interest in a whole host of areas, and we view ours.

There's no reason not to cooperate closely on sevurity. We already do wigh many non-EU countries, not leaxt the 5 "I's. We do on policing, in numerous forms from Interpol to international arrest warrants. And so on.

We are currently, and in the future will continue to be, pretty closely aligned philosophically with the EU so it's hardly like the US working closely with Nodth Korea

But assuming we leave, just how close "as close as possible" will be is as much up to the EU as it is go us, and will reflect us being a non-member. The limits of that restriction are entirely in the EU's control to be as close or distant as they wish.

Brexit does not and never did preclude working closely with. It's about not being part of.

[Top_gun]

Having been there a week ago I can confirm that London is already in a right old state.

Really, I live in a part of London which is considered as the 11th coolest place on Earth. Still, my house price is extremely healthy.

London is the capital city of the world without a doubt. I personally wouldn't want to live in the dull 'sticks'.

[spacein_vader]

Really, I live in a part of London which is considered as the 11th coolest place on Earth. Still, my house price is extremely healthy.

London is the capital city of the world without a doubt. I personally wouldn't want to live in the dull 'sticks'.

11th coolest is a very subjective method, assuming you aren't talking temperature.

I'm also unconvinced that the sky high property prices in the country generally and London particularly are in any way healthy. They are undoubtedly high though, but If you like paying more for less space good luck to you.

I'm assuming the sticks is defined as anywhere outside zone 6? Even big cities? London is one of the biggest cities in the world but New York would certainly argue it's closer to a world capital, it even has the UN.

[DanceswithUnix]

Really, I live in a part of London which is considered as the 11th coolest place on Earth. Still, my house price is extremely healthy.

London is the capital city of the world without a doubt. I personally wouldn't want to live in the dull 'sticks'.

That is one of the most self centered and materialistic things I have read in ages, with a generous dose of unjustified elitism. Good job, sums up what many of us hate about the whole aggressive London vibe is so few words

[TooNice]

Two points there.

Scotland - not really anything to do with Brexit. Oh sure, Scotland voted mainly remain, but on the indepence question, the SNP were pushing for it long before Brexit, and would still be pushing for it even if the Referendum had said "Remain". It's just another whip to hit Westminster with. Did Brexit make independence more likely? Maybe. Bring another Scottish IndyRef forwards a bit - very possibly, as the SNP won't want to wait for Brexit to be done and gone, whatever the result.

Indeed, which is why until now I have never voted for them. I was also not keen to the fact that they are pushing for indyref2 before the outcome of brexit has been set in stone, as my support for them is wholly dependant on the outcome of brexit. Though, the past week seems to suggest strongly that a deal that I am not fond of will pass, and if it does, even if an extension is granted and accepted, we'll have "left" by the time the SNP wants indyref2.

But Brexit (at least in the form that is proposed, or the forms that is frequently endorsed) is a deal breaker for me, in principle and impact. And in the same way that Leavers want to forge their future outside the EU, I want a Scotland ideally in the EU, but if not as close as possible, and that can only happen after exiting the union as the two are incompatible.

In the last bit, ...There's nothing inconsistent with that objective and Brexit. Assuming, cor sake of argument, we either Leavr in a few days, or even a bit later and even without a deal, the EU will stkll be a near neighbour and share many, many common interests.

There's no reason not to work as closely as possible, though how close that is is certsinly not just our call. It depends on the EU worming closely with us, too. Will they? On my view, they will want to work as closely as possible, but how close that is will never be as close as being part, and will be determined by what they view as thrir best interest in a whole host of areas, and we view ours.

I haven't really qualified what I mean by "close", but I think that it is safe to say that despite campaigning as an option, the goal posts have shifted, and anything like the Norway model would be rejected by Leavers and dismissed as BRINO. I mean, I wasn't fond of Theresa's deal, and that one was widely dismissed as BRINO already (and Farage is just as dismissive of Johnson's deal despite being one of the first to mention the Norway model), so the odds that the UK will leave on a term that I will deem acceptable doesn't seem great. Would a Scotland outside the Union accept and manage to obtain a deal I'd find preferable? No idea, but if the first question is out of the question, I will take my chance with the unknown. I've got nothing more to lose. And I suppose that might be how some leavers view leaving EU.

[Top_gun]

11th coolest is a very subjective method, assuming you aren't talking temperature.

I'm also unconvinced that the sky high property prices in the country generally and London particularly are in any way healthy. They are undoubtedly high though, but If you like paying more for less space good luck to you.

I'm assuming the sticks is defined as anywhere outside zone 6? Even big cities? London is one of the biggest cities in the world but New York would certainly argue it's closer to a world capital, it even has the UN.

That is one of the most self centered and materialistic things I have read in ages, with a generous dose of unjustified elitism. Good job, sums up what many of us hate about the whole aggressive London vibe is so few words

Don't worry I long for the days when we become a state and the rest of the country stops scrounging off London's taxes.

[spacein_vader]

Don't worry I long for the days when we become a state and the rest of the country stops scrounging off London's taxes.

Seems fair, if in return London stops scrounging off the rest of the countries food/water/electricity generation/labour supply.

[Top_gun]

Seems fair, if in return London stops scrounging off the rest of the countries food/water/electricity generation/labour supply.

Ahem, from Europe. And paid for with London's money, I may add.

[spacein_vader]

Ahem, from Europe. And paid for with London's money, I may add.

Are you seriously suggesting that London doesn't get any of the above from the rest of the UK?

[Top_gun]

Are you seriously suggesting that London doesn't get any of the above from the rest of the UK?

Clearly you don't know the term paid commodity.

[TooNice]

So, I decided look up the "11th coolest place on earth", and after identifying the place decided to do a quick Google of the place.. to find out that a case of triple stabbing took place today. Just the timing eh?

Personally, the fact that Niseko doesn't make the list in the Top 10, or indeed the Top 50, throws some doubt to the legitimacy of the list To me that place is cool both in temperature and factor.

But seriously.. Within the UK I am fond of London and Edinburgh. The primary appeal of London for me is the international vibe. How it compares to New York is of little importance to me, they are both large international cities and world class financial hub. This comes with ups and downs, but for me the ups do outweigh the down.

If you hate crowd (or foreigners - and this is not directed to anyone in particular) and everything that comes with crowds, smaller and/or expensive accommodations etc. then London won't do for you. But while it is nice to have some peace and quiet, I spend about 2-3 months a year enjoying a very quiet winter resort, and I actually think it is kind of nice to get back to the hectic city life afterward. And if you have some niche interest, you can probably find some social group you can join (for instance, after investing a lot of time learning Japanese, I wanted to make use of it. That was easily done in London, but near impossible in my home city in Scotland).

Still, I am bothered by London Underground's cost. If we are paying for quality, it would be a different story, but I feel that for that amount, it modernised by at least a century.

/Off topic

[Top_gun]

So, I decided look up the "11th coolest place on earth", and after identifying the place decided to do a quick Google of the place.. to find out that a case of triple stabbing took place today. Just the timing eh?
/Off topic

I know that area very well where the stabbings took place and it's usually very quiet spot. In fact, it is quite close to Dulwich than the heart of Peckham.

[Spud1]

So it seems like it's mixed news Monday

Good news for many of us that we have our extension granted, bad news for hard line brexiterrs, and then mixed news for all of us in that we're almost certainly heading for a GE next, which will almost certainly end up in a hung parliament again, and then we'll be back to a similar position in January.

Still, a stay of execution is what it is and there is now a scenario where we could end up remaining in the EU (however unlikely) so you know, I personally am taking this as good news.

My main worry now is that we may end up with Corbyn as PM, who I think would be just as damaging as Boris. Guess we'll see though.

[TeePee]

I'm not sure why you're worried about a hung parliament. Opinion polls suggest a Tory landslide..

[Saracen999]

I'm not sure why you're worried about a hung parliament. Opinion polls suggest a Tory landslide..

Yeah, and they suggested a significant May victory (that went well), a Remain majority, and so on.

May managed to cobbler-up a significasnt lead through what I would argue was lousy campaigning arrogance, disastrous new policies and an utter misunderstanding of her base.

No matter what polls say, it's a gamble until polling stations close. Both Labour and Tories face major risk factors .... expecially in marginals, one of which is whether the base votes tracitionally or along Leave/Remain lines. Who sees an election as picking a 5-yr government, and who sees it as a substitute for EU-Ref 2?