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About LinkBacksAha, yes. Minor threat - or something that could usher in a new order..?Originally Posted by j1979
Aha, yes. Minor threat - or something that could usher in a new order..?
Aliorum vitia turbaverunt me
The difference between countries is shocking, and shows just how good some countries have been at tracking and testing exposed people, compared to those countries which are only testing the seriously ill..
I guess it depends of the scale and how the virus plays out, if every US citizen knows or has heard of someone that died locally, then people will begin to question "fake news" .
Same in the UK, I can't see how Boris can spin an NHS already at breaking point. He's asking NHS workers to come out of retirement, what a cheek!!
What do you think?
yer, and those percentages will change a lot with such a small sample so far. So maybe US will not look quite so bad.
The following post is going to be a rather long and random assortment of my thoughts on things - so sorry in advance.
Also a few comments some may or may not agree on. I would beware of some "qualified" experts making certain panic inducing claims to the media and social media:
1.)Some think using shock and awe will push for a greater response,which it might.
2.)Some have vested interests,as greater coverage will mean more direct funding for them directly(some have a vested interest if you look at their background).
3.)Some like the media attention.
I might be sounding like a bit of a tit,but at least from my experience of academia,you do come across a number of people in the last two categories! That is also on top of academics not always being the best at communicating ideas to the average person in the best way!
Remember,even in China 60 million out of 1.4 billion people are quarantined,and there are travel restrictions on another 750 million people. So basically nearly half the population is still not restricted.
Have you noticed how much of the media focus isn't on people who survived this, or have been discharged successfully after treatment and medical self isolation??
This is influenza subtype is serious,but a lot of the coverage is causing more problems than it solves,as fear increases people will become more irrational causing more problems. This is why a lot of the internet is in panic stations.
People have to appreciate there have been at least 5 flu pandemics in the last 100 years,and there is even one called the 1957 "Asian flu" which did hit the UK hard and caused 1000s of deaths:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/3086843.stm
The media also conflates government and organisational planning which always looks at the worst case scenario,which it needs to be.
Also even if this is as bad as the worst case scenarios say,I might say another thing which might be considered unpopular on the interwebs. Its pointless,trawling over death totals and spread statistics,and people moaning about governments not doing X and Y,as guess what?? Its not going to affect what YOU can do personally about it. The fact is that governments and pharma have access to resources the average person does not have,and ultimately they have to responsible for certain things we as individuals have zero power over. All these talking heads if they were so brilliant would have solved the problems months ago - its easy for anyone with hindsight to be a post event expert.
The fact is unless you can run off to some isolated preppers bunker in the middle of the Outer Hebrides,most of us will have to have contact with people,even if it is for work,to buy food,etc. People need to spare a thought for all the people such as medical staff,army,drivers,farmers,farm workers,people working in food processing plants,plants producing medical related stuff,etc who will have no choice but to go to work,unless you want the wheels to fall off modern civilisation.
Hence,the internet worrying about every death and further infection is almost like some morbid death watching,which will only increase people's anxiety and make you likely to get ill in the first place. The worst thing is a lot of the people I suspect who are doing this are living in reasonable wealthy countries,with good healthcare,good social care,good nutrition and probably are below 50 years of age,ie,the ones most likely to survive most illnesses.
These are the very same internet people who need to man....sorry person up,as they need to help the vulnerable people in our society even if it means increasing your chances of exposure(the ones who really need help)...its more likely they will be hiding under the desk wailing.
Being concerned,and ACTING on it is the only thing you need to be doing. Worrying about things which you can't action or solve,means you will be as likely/not liking to catch Covid-19 as before and after you reading the next media article promoting the end of days. Do ACTIONS which help your own situation,anything else is pointless really. The only information which is probably needed,is to see what is happening LOCALLY,and any official guidelines such such as a quarantine being enforced.
Amongst the basic things you can do is follow the SAME basic hygiene suggestions for ANY kind of flu:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/actions-prevent-flu.htm
I see so many not following basic hygiene.
People should learn how to properly wash their hands and cover coughs.Even little things,about avoiding certain types of travel dependent on who you live with for example. If you are young and healthy instead of worrying try and help the older and less mobile people if you can.
Does it make sense to store up some extra food,yes it does,but I personally think it is commonsense any household should have a week's worth of food,or thereabouts. However,trying to buy 6 months worth of supplies of everything, when you wouldn't do it normally is being a selfish IMHO,as it deprives others of resources too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also,regarding face masks:
https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr619.pdf
People should read that. From my experience of wearing and from mates who have experience of needing to use them, face masks need proper facial fitment tests,ie,they have to be tailored to each facial type. Even when this is done,the masks have to be applied properly to the face. If not it leads to an improper fit,and air leakage around the sides,defeating the point of the masks.
Also,FFP3 masks have more air resistance which can also cause further problems,and a better fitting lower filtration mask will be more effective. But a major problem people don't seem to understand is masks are hard to wear for extended periods due to moisture buildup and the fact is all the internal and external surfaces need to be cleaned properly if the mask is re-used,and filters only have a certain half-life.Some masks have filters which last a few hours to a few days before disposal. Moisture buildup is not as bad in certain more expensive masks,but again moisture buildup is a great thing for bugs to survive in,so ideally you will need to replace masks several times a day,and use a dry one. Masks if re-used need to be disinfected both internally and externally too.But the fact is how many masks would you need? 10,20,100?? I don't know how long people think they can stockpile things for.
But will a mask stop you getting a physical virus - nope as they can't stop a virus passing through(hence why you need to not touch it) and contaminated mask surfaces are just as bad. It will however reduce the chance of phlegm droplets containing the virus entering your lungs,ie,aerosols,but again even a properly fitted surgical mask might do that,or literally trying to avoid selfish morons who cough into the air. Also in Asia people wear masks,more to reduce the chances of other people getting their flu,by keeping saliva droplets contained,not how people use them here(it probably makes more sense IMHO).
PS:You don't need to agree with any of this,as these are only my random thoughts on this and I am in the same boat as everyone else!
Hi!Was just looking into the simplest way to do this as I usually donate when I do a small local topup, but have just had an online delivery & don't plan to go near the shops for the next week or two; something like the Trussell Trust directly maybe. Some supermarkets have an online donation option but not the one I use (Ocado for example have a donate & we'll top it up scheme iirc.)
('lo CAT)
Do what you can. As Tesco says "every little helps".
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 07-03-2020 at 02:24 PM.
ik9000 (07-03-2020),j.o.s.h.1408 (09-03-2020),pp05 (20-03-2020)
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/volunteers...113818006.html
3.5 grand to be infected as a guinea pig! Not sure that would tempt me.
Nice well researched article at Ars Technica (as usual). They say they will keep updating it with latest info as well:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020...e-coronavirus/
Yeah I’m good thanks...
I'll do it. Where do I sign up? If only that wasn't a verizon link.
As i said in the other corona virus i am rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish scared because of my asthma really.Supposed to go vietnam for holiday in 2 weeks...The following post is going to be a rather long and random assortment of my thoughts on things - so sorry in advance.
Also a few comments some may or may not agree on. I would beware of some "qualified" experts making certain panic inducing claims to the media and social media:
1.)Some think using shock and awe will push for a greater response,which it might.
2.)Some have vested interests,as greater coverage will mean more direct funding for them directly(some have a vested interest if you look at their background).
3.)Some like the media attention.
I might be sounding like a bit of a tit,but at least from my experience of academia,you do come across a number of people in the last two categories! That is also on top of academics not always being the best at communicating ideas to the average person in the best way!
Remember,even in China 60 million out of 1.4 billion people are quarantined,and there are travel restrictions on another 750 million people. So basically nearly half the population is still not restricted.
Have you noticed how much of the media focus isn't on people who survived this, or have been discharged successfully after treatment and medical self isolation??
This is influenza subtype is serious,but a lot of the coverage is causing more problems than it solves,as fear increases people will become more irrational causing more problems. This is why a lot of the internet is in panic stations.
People have to appreciate there have been at least 5 flu pandemics in the last 100 years,and there is even one called the 1957 "Asian flu" which did hit the UK hard and caused 1000s of deaths:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/3086843.stm
The media also conflates government and organisational planning which always looks at the worst case scenario,which it needs to be.
Also even if this is as bad as the worst case scenarios say,I might say another thing which might be considered unpopular on the interwebs. Its pointless,trawling over death totals and spread statistics,and people moaning about governments not doing X and Y,as guess what?? Its not going to affect what YOU can do personally about it. The fact is that governments and pharma have access to resources the average person does not have,and ultimately they have to responsible for certain things we as individuals have zero power over. All these talking heads if they were so brilliant would have solved the problems months ago - its easy for anyone with hindsight to be a post event expert.
The fact is unless you can run off to some isolated preppers bunker in the middle of the Outer Hebrides,most of us will have to have contact with people,even if it is for work,to buy food,etc. People need to spare a thought for all the people such as medical staff,army,drivers,farmers,farm workers,people working in food processing plants,plants producing medical related stuff,etc who will have no choice but to go to work,unless you want the wheels to fall off modern civilisation.
Hence,the internet worrying about every death and further infection is almost like some morbid death watching,which will only increase people's anxiety and make you likely to get ill in the first place. The worst thing is a lot of the people I suspect who are doing this are living in reasonable wealthy countries,with good healthcare,good social care,good nutrition and probably are below 50 years of age,ie,the ones most likely to survive most illnesses.
These are the very same internet people who need to man....sorry person up,as they need to help the vulnerable people in our society even if it means increasing your chances of exposure(the ones who really need help)...its more likely they will be hiding under the desk wailing.
Being concerned,and ACTING on it is the only thing you need to be doing. Worrying about things which you can't action or solve,means you will be as likely/not liking to catch Covid-19 as before and after you reading the next media article promoting the end of days. Do ACTIONS which help your own situation,anything else is pointless really. The only information which is probably needed,is to see what is happening LOCALLY,and any official guidelines such such as a quarantine being enforced.
Amongst the basic things you can do is follow the SAME basic hygiene suggestions for ANY kind of flu:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/actions-prevent-flu.htm
I see so many not following basic hygiene.
People should learn how to properly wash their hands and cover coughs.Even little things,about avoiding certain types of travel dependent on who you live with for example. If you are young and healthy instead of worrying try and help the older and less mobile people if you can.
Does it make sense to store up some extra food,yes it does,but I personally think it is commonsense any household should have a week's worth of food,or thereabouts. However,trying to buy 6 months worth of supplies of everything, when you wouldn't do it normally is being a selfish IMHO,as it deprives others of resources too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also,regarding face masks:
https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr619.pdf
People should read that. From my experience of wearing and from mates who have experience of needing to use them, face masks need proper facial fitment tests,ie,they have to be tailored to each facial type. Even when this is done,the masks have to be applied properly to the face. If not it leads to an improper fit,and air leakage around the sides,defeating the point of the masks.
Also,FFP3 masks have more air resistance which can also cause further problems,and a better fitting lower filtration mask will be more effective. But a major problem people don't seem to understand is masks are hard to wear for extended periods due to moisture buildup and the fact is all the internal and external surfaces need to be cleaned properly if the mask is re-used,and filters only have a certain half-life.Some masks have filters which last a few hours to a few days before disposal. Moisture buildup is not as bad in certain more expensive masks,but again moisture buildup is a great thing for bugs to survive in,so ideally you will need to replace masks several times a day,and use a dry one. Masks if re-used need to be disinfected both internally and externally too.But the fact is how many masks would you need? 10,20,100?? I don't know how long people think they can stockpile things for.
But will a mask stop you getting a physical virus - nope as they can't stop a virus passing through(hence why you need to not touch it) and contaminated mask surfaces are just as bad. It will however reduce the chance of phlegm droplets containing the virus entering your lungs,ie,aerosols,but again even a properly fitted surgical mask might do that,or literally trying to avoid selfish morons who cough into the air. Also in Asia people wear masks,more to reduce the chances of other people getting their flu,by keeping saliva droplets contained,not how people use them here(it probably makes more sense IMHO).
PS:You don't need to agree with any of this,as these are only my random thoughts on this and I am in the same boat as everyone else!
Hi!
Do what you can. As Tesco says "every little helps".
I think I saw you comment on it over on OcUK forums. Although some of the people over there mean well(I hope they do),I think for your sanity you should probably try and not read it too much.
However,I was reading it was a couple of people from the UK who ended up causing a spike in Vietnamese cases,not locals ironically enough. Well I don't know how good healthcare over in Vietnam is,but I would make sure you have very good health insurance if you do intend to go(just in case). But realistically if you are already concerned,are you going to enjoy the trip?? It defeats the point of a holiday.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 09-03-2020 at 03:03 PM.
I thought they banned travellers from the UK today?
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/stat...63873909469185
"Within 10-14 days the UK will move to a situation where “everybody who has even minor respiratory tract infections or a fever should be self-isolating for seven days afterwards”
Chief medical officer Chris Whitty on "the next step""
No trees were harmed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were displaced and terribly inconvenienced.
They are telling us it's going to get worse in the coming weeks, yet are saying we don't need to change our behaviour...
Yet.
Exposure increases the chance of getting it,so commonsense dictates minimising unnecessary trips,especially since I still so many people coughing into the air,or not even washing their hands properly. I really don't understand why so many people seem to not follow basic hygiene - its almost like people are not taught this!
I just saw that - that answers the question.
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