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Thread: Permanent behaviour changes

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    Almost Ex-HEXUS Staff Jonatron's Avatar
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    Permanent behaviour changes

    The current situation does bring some questions:
    Public transport - Should masks be compulsary?
    Handshaking - Should we bow or nod instead?
    Hand sanitising - Should there be hand santisers at the entrance to restaurants and shops / trolleys?
    Going to work while sick - Should everyone be stricter with not allowing it?

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonatron View Post
    The current situation does bring some questions:
    Public transport - Should masks be compulsary?
    No
    Handshaking - Should we bow or nod instead?
    No
    Hand sanitising - Should there be hand santisers at the entrance to restaurants and shops / trolleys?
    Yes, good idea.
    Going to work while sick - Should everyone be stricter with not allowing it?
    Not allowing it? That would seem harsh, not everyone gets sick pay. And it's those on lower - mid incomes usually that don't.
    So, forcing someone off work would see them loose money when they might already be struggling.
    We can all agree it's silly. But, it's change of policy at government level required to force sick pay onto everyone that will change it. Not individual behaviour. There will always people struggling for money that will turn up for work when they probably shouldn't.

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    People can have some basic hygience such as not coughing into the air,and try coughing into a tissue,and actually washing their hands after using the toilet. Also if you do need to travel into work with a sniffle,wear a mask on public transport,etc to stop others getting coughed on.

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Public transport - Should masks be compulsary? YES
    Handshaking - Should we bow or nod instead? NO
    Hand sanitising - Should there be hand santisers at the entrance to restaurants and shops / trolleys? MAYBE, but then I carry my own anyway
    Going to work while sick - Should everyone be stricter with not allowing it? HELL YES

    Quote Originally Posted by AC81 View Post
    Not allowing it? That would seem harsh, not everyone gets sick pay. And it's those on lower - mid incomes usually that don't.
    So, forcing someone off work would see them loose money when they might already be struggling.
    We can all agree it's silly. But, it's change of policy at government level required to force sick pay onto everyone that will change it. Not individual behaviour. There will always people struggling for money that will turn up for work when they probably shouldn't.
    Agreed, it's complicated, but there needs to be a way to curb absolute sick folk from trying to be a hero and infecting everyone around them. It's not always just about money, thuogh often can be.



    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    People can have some basic hygience such as not coughing into the air,and try coughing into a tissue,and actually washing their hands after using the toilet. Also if you do need to travel into work with a sniffle,wear a mask on public transport,etc to stop others getting coughed on.
    yes please! I would love it if it was law to wear face masks if you're ill on public transport. Problem would be hoodies would use it to do nefarious things and dodge CCTV etc.

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonatron View Post
    The current situation does bring some questions:
    Public transport - Should masks be compulsary?
    No, because there will be those who take the mick and (ab)use it for criminal purposes, as IK9K pointed out. That this was my first thought too, so clearly not just me being a weirdo...

    Handshaking - Should we bow or nod instead?
    No need. Too foreign, and we already have it covered:




    Hand sanitising - Should there be hand santisers at the entrance to restaurants and shops / trolleys?
    Errrmmmmm...... no.
    I'm not a big believer in that stuff, TBH, at least not as far as most people use it. Actually washing your hands and removing the contaminant is far better than simply slapping on a bit of disinfectant.


    Going to work while sick - Should everyone be stricter with not allowing it?
    Heck, yes!!!
    The slightest sniffle and you should be banned from turning up at your crummy, soul-destroying minimum wage job. You'll soon whittle away the staff to the point where profit is impossible and they have to start shelling out sick pay.

    Alternatively - Heck, no. Expose everyone to as much as possible, help build up their immune systems!
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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonatron View Post
    The current situation does bring some questions:
    Public transport - Should masks be compulsary?
    I can't see that working, especially as it would be more likely to give a false sense of protection as not all masks would be suitable for that purpose, so I'd expect plenty of people just grabbing whatever type they can get their hands on (especially if it's cheap) and assuming they had things covered as a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonatron View Post
    Handshaking - Should we bow or nod instead?
    Bowing would just seem weird unless we're meeting Royalty (and even then I'd imagine I'd feel weird if I did so). A nod of the head is an approach I could see working in most cases, but I doubt it's an approach people would switch to permanently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonatron View Post
    Hand sanitising - Should there be hand santisers at the entrance to restaurants and shops / trolleys?
    I'd imagine most would simply point to the fact that hand-washing facilities are available in public (and customer) toilets just like they were before, so things would simply go back to normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonatron View Post
    Going to work while sick - Should everyone be stricter with not allowing it?
    The trouble is, there will always be plenty of people who can't afford not to go to work, even if they would obviously prefer to avoid it when sick. Unless employers can put something stronger than current sick pay policies in place to combat that issue outside of what's going on currently, I can't see that being realistically feasible.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    actually washing their hands after using the toilet.
    If anything is going to be permanent, I would hope that it would at least be that.

    I'm sure we've all noticed various people over the years in public toilets walking straight out rather than heading to the sinks to actually wash their hands like we had headed to wash ours.

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Output View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonatron View Post
    Hand sanitising - Should there be hand santisers at the entrance to restaurants and shops / trolleys?
    I'd imagine most would simply point to the fact that hand-washing facilities are available in public (and customer) toilets just like they were before, so things would simply go back to normal.
    The number of places with no soap routinely (like bars and restaurants etc) means I sincerely hope they do not go back to the way they were before!

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    The biggest change that should come from this is basic hygiene....and nothing more. SO many people don't wash their hands after using the toilet, or before meals or well, ever, and that is a huge cause of sickness in the country (well, world).

    Thing is though, we have to be really careful going forward as we don't want to end up in a police state style system where you have to wear a mask, or you can't shake hands, or stopping sick people from working - all of that would be pretty horrible and I would never want to live in a country that enforced that.

    Sadly, you can't legislate for common sense and our healthcare system is in a sense too good, meaning that stupidity doesn't get punished by death like it may have done a few hundred years ago!

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Nothing will change, in a years time a vaccine will have been created and 2020 remembered as that strange year where we all had to stay indoors for a bit
    Jon

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Quite amusing landing in Manchester Airport yesterday where Border staff had no masks or gloves on, yet when I got to Man Piccadilly there's a chap stood at one end of the escalator with a cloth and cleaning liquid at the other end with about three people in the station.

    Even between the people keeping the country moving in some capacity there isn't a standard of what is suitable.
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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonatron View Post
    Public transport - Should masks be compulsary?
    I think it would be quite a jump. The idea of non-health professional wearing a mask is pretty foreign in the UK. And even that countries where a significant amount of the public have not only adopted them, but even embraced them as a fashion item have not made them compulsory, I don't think it is *practical* to make it compulsory in the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Public transport - Should masks be compulsary?
    No, because there will be those who take the mick and (ab)use it for criminal purposes, as IK9K pointed out. That this was my first thought too, so clearly not just me being a weirdo...
    Does that mean that you are against face masks altogether / would like to see them banned in order to prevent them from being used for criminal purpose?

    Because as long as it is allowed they can be abused. Pretty sad state of affairs that this is one of the first thing people think in the UK.. as it isn't a concern I've really heard voiced over here (in Japan, and also a couple other East Asian countries I've spent time in where masks are very common)..

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    Does that mean that you are against face masks altogether / would like to see them banned in order to prevent them from being used for criminal purpose?
    Does it?

    But all that aside - A face mask does not stop you from catching Covid-19. It might stop you from coughing it over someone else, but then it will be all over your person and anything you contact is liable to be a spread-point. The only way to properly protect everyone is rigid enforcement of full body PPE and thorough decontamination procedures. If you like wearing NBC kit, or just have a particular fetish, then you're quids in... Most people won't go for that, though.

    The good news is that it will help build peoples' immunities. That's why we're all isolating - Not to stop the virus, but to merely slow the inevitable exposure down to a speed where the health services can still cope...

    Quote Originally Posted by TooNice View Post
    Because as long as it is allowed they can be abused. Pretty sad state of affairs that this is one of the first thing people think in the UK.. as it isn't a concern I've really heard voiced over here (in Japan, and also a couple other East Asian countries I've spent time in where masks are very common)..
    We no longer have a culture of shaming and utterly ostracizing people who commit crimes though, with the exception of just one or two particularly nasty ones, but even those are conditional.
    It's cultural difference and a question of compatability. We're almost arguing burkha bans, as most of the same cultural factors are the influences here.
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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    We're almost arguing burkha bans, as most of the same cultural factors are the influences here.
    A big difference between face masks and burkha there are no rules written or unwritten where one has to wear a mask, and it has always been a choice. So the whole oppression argument goes out of the window. Leaving just the argument about not being able to identify a wrongdoer (regarding the limitations / effectiveness or lack of, it is up to the people to read and make their own decision as long as it is optional).

    But if the ease of identify wrongdoers is deemed to outweigh the option to put something on your face if you feel like it, then I would say it is a pretty sad situation in the country.

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    That's true and I agree with you. The problem is this: atm hoodie wears scarf over face to scope out a shop or whatever. Police get tip from CCTV and have grounds to stop and question on basis it is unusual too cover face. Stop and search uncovers crowbars and a knife etc. Lawful arrest. Now if there was a law saying must wear a mask the grounds for stopping the individual before the event are diluted. All I was saying was it offers the excuse of a legitimate reason to cover ones face which unlike a motorcycle helmet cannot be reasonably asked to be removed at the door to a shop etc

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Output View Post
    The trouble is, there will always be plenty of people who can't afford not to go to work, even if they would obviously prefer to avoid it when sick. Unless employers can put something stronger than current sick pay policies in place to combat that issue outside of what's going on currently, I can't see that being realistically feasible.
    How about banning adverts for cold remedies that promote going to work while sick?

    Inflicting your own miserable symptoms onto everyone in the vicinity is a really, really selfish thing to do. In productivity terms the majority of business is likely to be better off discouraging the hero culture. Stop promoting it, let people know how selfish the behaviour is and aim to make it as socially unacceptable as drink driving. I am just about old enough to remember listening to the 1001 excuses for drink driving being 'essential.' Turns out it wasn't essential.

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    Re: Permanent behaviour changes

    I think it would be good if the UK got used to people wearing masks "when they are ill". Problem is people are too self conscious here and mock others. It is much better than 20+ years ago though.

    Hand sanitiser wise a couple outside supermarkets doesn't seem like a big deal and those who want to use it then can. What I would like to see though is non contact soap dispensers, taps, and toilet flushers. It should be made law that all new public facilities have these as standard. Also toilet door locks should be made bigger so you can open them without having to grab them with your fingers.

    Another thing I have noticed is that most people don't wash their hands when eating out. If it's McDonald's they queue up, buy it and then sit down and eat it with their bare hands. When we are allowed back out try observing people and see how few people go wash their hands. I can't see a way around this other than to give wet wipes with meals so it is convenient.

    If the reports are true from Japan that it hasn't spread like it has here,I think a lot of it had to do with those things mentioned.

    Automatic dispensers, taps and stuff are very common.
    People wear masks when they are ill.
    Nodding and bowing to greet people.
    People wash their hands and nearly all restaurants give out wipes.

    If only people wouldn't come into work sick.

    Speaking of which I think the government should make sick pay for the first 3 days be paid (by the company). Especially for companies which have sick disciplinary rules such as Tesco and the like. If I remember correct Tesco can (and often do) sack people if they are off sick three times or more in a 365 day period. I think you get a written warning for the second time which of course can be used with other warnings to get rid of you. Because of this people who work in Tesco come in sick and spread it around because they have to due to getting disciplined and also many live pay cheque to pay cheque.

    Tesco's and other supermarket's policies actively cause this virus to spread. Also what's up with them having compressed opening hours? Surely that means more crowded shopping...

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