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Thread: Mobile Phone Use Health Risks?

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    Mobile Phone Use Health Risks?

    I know, I know... I have no desire to join the tinfoil hat club or spread internet/conspiracy theory nonsense.

    I'm posting this because I came across this video following a recommendation from a friend, and with some reluctance I watched it.

    The speaker is credentialed and the talk was held at the University of Melbourne. As she speaks she seems careful in not overstating anything or making claims beyond what is warranted by the research she cites. Generally speaking she seems to be calling for further research into this area, particularly as regards the way these devices are actually used by people (in pockets, on laps etc.). In addition she would like to see ongoing proper communication/dialogue between different bodies and departments and governments in order to facilitate proper investigation and research.

    Basically, she doesn't sound like a quack.

    If the reality is somewhere more along the lines she seems to indicate it could be, rather than the "nothing to see here" perspective that is generally accepted, then it's a matter for concern. At the very least, the fact that the research and dialogue and testing that is out there, and is used as the basis for approval, is divided and not along the lines of real-world usage needs to be changed, one would think.

    Has it been? Does anyone have any other decent resources or thoughts on this?



    In terms of practical mobile phone usage the following are mentioned:

    Children may be at special risk due to the relative size of their heads/bodies compared to the phone/tablet. If using tablets/phones with children, put it on airplane mode which will turn off the RF functionality.

    Use a hands-free device for longer calls - or speaker-phone.

    RF spikes may be the worst aspect so avoid picking up a phone call with the phone at your head - answer it and then bring it up.

    Don't keep your phone in your pocket, or otherwise close to your body, for long periods.


    Additional Points She Makes:
    Mobile Phone Radiation may be a human carcinogen - further research has been declared as necessary but, at time of her speaking the WHO and others were not doing that further research.

    With widespread phone usage why no obvious increase in brain cancer in the general population? Brain cancer takes a long time to develop (e.g. 40 years). Essentially, it hasn't been long enough to see effects yet. Especially because how we use phones and the functionality of phones is changing rapidly. Also, with older research there was no expectation of the sort of phone usage that we're seeing now - e.g. toddlers using phones etc. and as an example, how a phone 'user' was defined in studies that found there was no increase in risk was someone who made "one call a week in six months."

    This field has been "plagued" by biased, sponsored research that seeks to find no problems, in the USA, at least. Lots of calls for research but little funding for it - easier to call for it than do it.

    She Calls For:
    Standarised Metrics
    Cross-sectional surveys
    Public education on 'fine print' advisories.
    Last edited by Galant; 21-04-2020 at 02:11 PM.
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    Re: Mobile Phone Use Health Risks?

    Microwaves and old CRT displays produce a lot of radiation though relative to a phone,so are we going to stop using microwaves? Also there is also the laws of physics involved here - if phones were producing so much radiation,then where is all the energy coming from?? Mobile devices are power limited,and if they were producing so much radiation that it can pass through the phone case, air,clothing,skull and CSF,then these devices would be burning out due to the power density and need huge heatsinks to dissapate the heat. Most of the power that goes into chips is lost as heat.



    That is the size of a 4G modem chip. Lots of phones have the modem integrated into the CPU package too.

    This is a 5G modem chip die:



    Look at the size of the magnetron in a microwave,which is consuming KW levels of power. Compare that to older phones which probably had far less efficient chips which produced more radiation.

    So at this point,even though these are producing radiation,what about all the other things we use which also produce radiation,and are connected to the mains power??

    Also most people nowadays use IM apps,etc instead of talking on the phone for hours,so you tend to keep the phone away from your body. Modern microphones mean you can put a phone on loadspeaker and talk to people fine.

    She also missed one thing though.

    If you are scared about radiation,then sadly decades of open air nuclear tests have permanently increased background radiation,so much all steel produced after 1945 is more radioactive. Hence there is a market for pre-1945 steels as its measurable decades later:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 21-04-2020 at 04:03 PM.

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    Re: Mobile Phone Use Health Risks?

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    If you are scared about radiation,then sadly decades of open air nuclear tests have permanently increased background radiation,so much all steel produced after 1945 is more radioactive. Hence there is a market for pre-1945 steels:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
    that is correct. For medical uses eg MRI scanners etc it is not uncommon for the steel to be obtained from scuttled/sunk warships eg up at Scapa Flow. For general use it is less of an issue. Tracing radioactive isotopes through the steel fabrication chain is a fun exercise though.

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    Re: Mobile Phone Use Health Risks?

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Look at the size of the magnetron in a microwave,which is consuming KW levels of power.
    The magnetron in a microwave is inside a Faraday cage.

    So at this point,even though these are producing radiation,what about all the other things we use which also produce radiation,and are connected to the mains power??
    Not all those other devices have antennas.

    I am entirely split on the matter. 5G is going to bathe urban areas with radio waves at a frequency that was previously difficult to modulate and hardly ever used. You can get some odd effects when you find some frequency coincides with the resonant frequency of some material. Tacoma Straights Bridge is about the best known example and we had our own QEII bridge. Radio waves can do the same thing on a much smaller scale. The fundamental may not be a problem but I have read some concerns about the harmonics - Could be shiny-hat stuff, I don't know.

    Like I say, no firm opinion, apart from being wary of the vast amount of money that has been poured into the 5G lobby. Lot's of vested interest in the roll out.

    If you are scared about radiation,then sadly decades of open air nuclear tests have permanently increased background radiation,so much all steel produced after 1945 is more radioactive.
    Lol. October 2001, I dived at Scapa-Flow (pre-nuclear) and three weeks later at Bikini-Atoll under the A-Bomb test site. One of very few places you can reach an aircraft carrier and three battleships without a sub. Background radiation is lower than Devon, just as long as you don't go digging in the sand...And then it's off to the hospital you go.

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    Re: Mobile Phone Use Health Risks?

    Quote Originally Posted by matts-uk View Post
    The magnetron in a microwave is inside a Faraday cage.
    I know as I have opened up one - but do you honestly think a piece of thin metal is going to block everything?

    The microwave "oven" was discovered by mistake by a person working at Raytheon. He was working on radars,and kept some food in front of it,whilst working and it melted his chocolate bar.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2.../#2641867f192a

    It should be noted that microwave ovens emit 700 Watts of power, hundreds of times more than the maximum that a cell phone does (and thousands of times more than your cell phone does during the majority of your call).

    Another way to think about the situation is to consider the steady state power emission of .02 Watts and ask how long it would take to heat up your body by one degree Celsius if your entire volume was exposed. Take your body mass to be 100 kg and approximate it as being composed entirely of entirely of water. If all of the radiation was absorbed and went into heating you up (which it isn’t), it would take 20900000 seconds (specific heat*mass*1 degree/power) or 241 days to heat you up by one degree. Fortunately, you have metabolic processes in your body, or possibly air conditioning, to mitigate this heating.

    The recent study [5] about cell phones causing cancer in rats should be taken with a grain of salt when making the connection to humans [6]. In particular, the rats in the study were exposed to radiation power densities of 0, 1.5, 3, or 6 W/kg (see p 7 in ref. 4 below). This would be equivalent of the 100 kg human getting up to 600 Watts — basically getting microwaved. As discussed earlier, cell phones are hundreds of times weaker.
    If people are that worried they shouldn't use microwaves. Or fly frequently(not a problem now though!):

    https://www.livescience.com/new-suns...le-begins.html
    https://www.space.com/new-solar-cycl...y-day-now.html

    Good old sun,complicating things with its solar radiation bursts!


    Quote Originally Posted by matts-uk View Post
    Not all those other devices have antennas.
    The antenna is embedded in a bit of plastic at the corners,and the modem is running off a puny battery. Old phones used to have a massive piece of metal sticking out the side,embedded in plastic.

    People forget in the old days,the networks were more sparse,so phones had to have higher powered onboard antennas and modems. This is why they were bricks. Nowadays,phones don't need to use those huge antennas - internal antennas tend to be weaker than the external ones. This is because we have a more extensive network.

    Most power is converted to heat,and many of the chips have little or no cooling.

    If the phone modem is producing enough radiation to cause you cancer,it needs to be at a power density to go through the casing,air,skin,bone,CSF,etc.

    You are more likely to die of numerous other things,which are far more easily quantifiable,have more immediate effects,etc. So even if there was an elevated risk,how much is it a risk relative to all the other environmental factors?

    Quote Originally Posted by matts-uk View Post
    I am entirely split on the matter. 5G is going to bathe urban areas with radio waves at a frequency that was previously difficult to modulate and hardly ever used. You can get some odd effects when you find some frequency coincides with the resonant frequency of some material. Tacoma Straights Bridge is about the best known example and we had our own QEII bridge. Radio waves can do the same thing on a much smaller scale. The fundamental may not be a problem but I have read some concerns about the harmonics - Could be shiny-hat stuff, I don't know.

    Like I say, no firm opinion, apart from being wary of the vast amount of money that has been poured into the 5G lobby. Lot's of vested interest in the roll out.
    There is always going to be that problem of lobbying and why things need to be tested properly.

    However this game has been played in the media for 30 years,even before 3G. I am not saying testing shouldn't be done or there could be a risk,but I think in terms of threats to health,there are more immediate dangers,especially with things that cause cancer.

    You are probably ingesting those things right now when you eat...or inhaling them.




    Quote Originally Posted by matts-uk View Post
    Lol. October 2001, I dived at Scapa-Flow (pre-nuclear) and three weeks later at Bikini-Atoll under the A-Bomb test site. One of very few places you can reach an aircraft carrier and three battleships without a sub. Background radiation is lower than Devon, just as long as you don't go digging in the sand...And then it's off to the hospital you go.
    https://www.livescience.com/65949-ma...chernobyl.html
    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...fb4?ri18n=true

    This is why the islanders who left can't really go back and that is after a lot of contaminated soil was dug up.

    A lot of the bombs tested were not clean,including many of the boosted weapons which were very dirty,and this is why background radiation is higher. As ik9000 also said,its why old wrecks are scavenged worldwide for steel including illegal scavenging of protected wrecks.

    In fact it was rumoured that a lot of people died of cancer deaths due to fallout from open air US tests. One of them was John Wayne.

    Edit!!

    Anyway,that is as much as I am going to argue this,as I have seen how similar threads tend to go!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 21-04-2020 at 06:16 PM.

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