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Thread: Worrying about broadband

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    Worrying about broadband

    I should be in bed but I am struggling to sleep because I am worrying.

    My anxiety is connected to the virus and my business but it's not exactly my problem. Sorry it's long but I just need to type it. You don't have to read it.

    Today I had two call outs to vulnerable people shielded for health reasons. Being locked down and not allowed outside their internet connections are essential for shopping and keeping in touch with family and health services.

    My first visit was to install a router for a couple in their 80s, the husband has just had open heart surgery. Gloved up, overall on. Should take 30 minutes to an hour tops.

    Where they want the router is on an extension so I do a quiet line test and there is feedback and a horrendous crackle. Not a chance of the modem syncing. I help track down the master socket, make sure there is no home care or alarm monitoring. Remove the faceplate, repeat the quiet line test and it is not the extension causing the crackling. I tell them they need to call BT and usually this is when I strongly recommend the customer lets me leave. Paying an engineer to sit on hold is not good use of anybodies money.

    In the circumstances, because the couple are frail and they are looking very worried and urging me to stay, I agree to help with the call to BT. I look up the fault reporting number. They negotiate the security checks, pass the phone over and I explain the situation and what I have done. Can't believe how helpful the operator is immediately accepting the diagnosis. To be fair the crackling is pretty loud. Then Jack tells me he is transferring the call to faults. (What was Jack's role?) I'm on hold 5 mins, Jack comes back and tells me there is a queue.

    I wait another 10 minutes before making my apologies and explain I will have to leave. (We are trying to keep the time in people's houses to a minimum.) I write out exactly what I have done, and an instruction to let them know they are vulnerable people (elderly customers are often too proud to say it). Have them read it back and leave the couple still waiting on hold.

    The couple called my wife while I was on my afternoon call out, distraught. They were on hold 3 hours when they got through, they were told the router wasn't connected properly. (I left it connected but it won't sync.) BT completely ignored what I had written, including the words "Just listen to the crackling on this line." Refused to send an engineer and terminated the call. That was this mornings call out.

    The afternoon call out was to fit a mesh kit for a couple in their 70s in a large property struggling to print over WiFi. I allowed 1 to 2 hours. Another router in an extension, so another quiet line test. No problem this time, you could hear a pin drop. Log into the router, 5.2Mbps down 800Kbps up. ADSL2 speeds. The property is in a village so maybe that's all they got.

    The wife mentions they are struggling with Zoom...800Kbps not surprised. I mention the mesh kit won't sort that out. They need 'superfast' vdsl2. The wife is organised and instantly pulls the out the bill. Don't be fooled by Dates of Birth, this lady is running up and down stairs faster than your average 30 year old and could sort my in-tray just by staring at it. The husbands at risk which is why they are shielded but he's not pleased he can't play on his Laser dinghy (try sailing one, they hurt). The couple have been paying sky for 69Mbps down 39Mbps up for the last year.

    While I am messing with mesh the wife calls the Sky helpline. The phone is passed to me and, I can only say he had an Eastern European accent, as he refused to provide a name. I read off the sync stats. Yes there is a micro filter and by the way the numbers, the PPPoA encapsulation, doesn't it look a lot like ADSL2. Phone back to the wife
    "Can we try the master socket."
    (Thinks why? We are an order of magnitude off the right numbers, the line is quiet and synced at exactly ADSL service speed.)
    "Sure where is it"

    Dutifully we start carting the router round the phone sockets, none of which are a master. The closest I found was an old master on a dead line. Search of the entire house ensues. Check the rooms closest the cable entry from the pole. Nothing. It's big house that has been cut around.

    We have been on the phone well over an hour now. I'm hot and bothered and no closer to finishing the job I am there to do. Phone passed to me and I ask what's the problem.
    "There is a problem in the property wiring."
    "No there isn't, they are on the wrong service."
    "There is a cap at the exchange."
    "So why have you had us trapesing round the house for an hour."
    "What would you like me to do."
    "I would like you to organise getting your customer the service she is paying for."
    "Would you like a 'shiny new router'"
    (He's condescending me now)
    "I would like you to transfer me to your supervisor or someone that can help resolve the problem."
    "You can end the call and redial."
    (This guy knows all the tricks. If we put the phone down it is another 1/2 hour+ to get through)
    "OK give me the call log number."
    "######"
    "Now I am going to advise your customer they are entitled to a refund for every day you have provided less than the speed they are paying for. I am passing you back to your customer and you can decide what you would like to do."

    I start putting the router back. Wife finishes the call and tells me they are sending an engineer tomorrow. And the line was switched 2 weeks ago. (Changed his story again then.)
    So now I am a little worried he may have set the couple up, getting the line switched to vDSL and leaving them offline until they get a vDSL router. Luckily they have their phones and the grand daughter has a month unlimited and knows what a personal hotspot is. Phew.

    If anyone has made it to the end, I appreciate it. I am feeling a little better but still frustrated by the appalling laziness / incompetence at a time when it's dangerous. The ISPs claim it is a small percentage of customers with problems. I go through this at least a couple times a month every month and usually shrug it off.

    How the heck do you get it the attention it deserves. This kind of disgusting attitude to vulnerable customers for whom broadband and wifi are foreign languages seems to be systemic in the industry.

    Thank you Hexus. I am off to bed now.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    All I can say is that it can be draining to do the right thing, so well done. Fingers crossed today won't be so much of a battle for you and your clients.

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Quote Originally Posted by matts-uk View Post
    How the heck do you get it the attention it deserves. This kind of disgusting attitude to vulnerable customers for whom broadband and wifi are foreign languages seems to be systemic in the industry.

    Thank you Hexus. I am off to bed now.
    It's the attitude to all customers, but I agree, so much worse to the vulnerable. I find having to fight against service providers in almost every sector very stressful. Is it the 'free market' that's lead so many companies to justify trying to 'rip off' all and sundry where they can?

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    It's the attitude to all customers, but I agree, so much worse to the vulnerable. I find having to fight against service providers in almost every sector very stressful. Is it the 'free market' that's lead so many companies to justify trying to 'rip off' all and sundry where they can?
    The "Free Market" has provided cheapo broadband with rubbish service for people that focus on price and nothing else. i.e. about 90% of the population. There are excellent ISP's available such as Zen and Andrews and Arnold but they cost more.

    If the whole internet provision had never been privatised (i.e. BT was never nationalised and no competition was allowed) we'd still be paying 50p per minute for calls and enjoying dialup unless we pay £200 per month for "superfast" 10 MBit broadband.

    Free markets have their problems (as is being demonstrated right now by the total lack of any kind of readiness for the current pandemic) and benefits but let's not get market failure mixed up with "shortsighted populace" related failure.
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Sleep well, Matt. You've bloody well earned it!!!
    _______________________________________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Tyson
    like a chihuahua urinating on a towering inferno...

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    The "Free Market" has provided cheapo broadband with rubbish service for people that focus on price and nothing else. i.e. about 90% of the population. There are excellent ISP's available such as Zen and Andrews and Arnold but they cost more.

    If the whole internet provision had never been privatised (i.e. BT was never nationalised and no competition was allowed) we'd still be paying 50p per minute for calls and enjoying dialup unless we pay £200 per month for "superfast" 10 MBit broadband.

    Free markets have their problems (as is being demonstrated right now by the total lack of any kind of readiness for the current pandemic) and benefits but let's not get market failure mixed up with "shortsighted populace" related failure.
    This is the problem isn't it. I just wish there was more middle of the road operators. Its cheap and nasty or expensive. Nothing in the middle. Saying that it wouldn't make a big difference - I'd still be limited by Openreach's 20mbps max on my line. All the while we're still mostly on an ageing copper network its not going to get much better is it.

    Thanks for going above and beyond Matt. I occasionally 'fix' broadband for old people we know and its incredibly frustrating as they are usually happy to put up with whatever they have, even if the service is abysmal and they could save money/go faster by changing provider/package in 5 minutes on a website...
    Trust

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    The "Free Market" has provided cheapo broadband with rubbish service for people that focus on price and nothing else. i.e. about 90% of the population. There are excellent ISP's available such as Zen and Andrews and Arnold but they cost more.

    If the whole internet provision had never been privatised (i.e. BT was never nationalised and no competition was allowed) we'd still be paying 50p per minute for calls and enjoying dialup unless we pay £200 per month for "superfast" 10 MBit broadband.

    Free markets have their problems (as is being demonstrated right now by the total lack of any kind of readiness for the current pandemic) and benefits but let's not get market failure mixed up with "shortsighted populace" related failure.
    I agree with most of that, other than the 'if internet provision hadn't been privatised'; BT were developing fibre in the 80s, and had plans to roll out across the whole network, but the government of the time decided there should be 'competition', so the department was hosed and the tech sold off to the far east.

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Quote Originally Posted by Smudger View Post
    I agree with most of that, other than the 'if internet provision hadn't been privatised'; BT were developing fibre in the 80s, and had plans to roll out across the whole network, but the government of the time decided there should be 'competition', so the department was hosed and the tech sold off to the far east.
    Hmmm yes. Thanks maggie. Fundamentalist politicians ruining everything again.

    Free markets have their place and are critically important to improving productivity but being dogmatic about capitalism results in some serious failings.
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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Don't forget there isn't really a free market for broadband for the vast majority in this country though it is improving. Leaving aside Hull, most of the country has a choice of 2 providers: Virgin & Openreach. Sure, you can get an Openreach connection with a wide choice of logos on the bill and degrees of service but you're still stuck with their offerings: ADSL peasantband or the 40 and 80 meg flavours of VDSL.

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Exactly. Such with Virgin's price rises each year. It's a joke

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    Don't forget there isn't really a free market for broadband for the vast majority in this country though it is improving. Leaving aside Hull, most of the country has a choice of 2 providers: Virgin & Openreach. Sure, you can get an Openreach connection with a wide choice of logos on the bill and degrees of service but you're still stuck with their offerings: ADSL peasantband or the 40 and 80 meg flavours of VDSL.
    This is where it gets complicated. For there to be a true free market, each house would need to have 5 or more different ducts owned by different companies all competing for your business. That's not practical at all. However privatisation of BY has forced it to cut out a huge amount of waste and thus enabled it to provide the service cheaper.

    However free markets are not responsible for the OP's customer situation. Them getting cheapo broadband is. They simply wouldn't have these problems with a High quality but more expensive provider.
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    This is where it gets complicated. For there to be a true free market, each house would need to have 5 or more different ducts owned by different companies all competing for your business. That's not practical at all. However privatisation of BY has forced it to cut out a huge amount of waste and thus enabled it to provide the service cheaper.

    However free markets are not responsible for the OP's customer situation. Them getting cheapo broadband is. They simply wouldn't have these problems with a High quality but more expensive provider.
    and my option for that would be to get it from who exactly?

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Thank you every one for the kind words of support. It is really appreciated. I took the morning off yesterday so was a little short of time to update you all.

    The couple in their 80s. My wife went in early and arranged the call to Openreach ahead of the herd so to speak. This time the script I left with the customer achieved the right result. An engineer will be with them Saturday morning.

    The couple in their 70s. The Sky operator had been so busy trying to prove he was right he placed an order that confused the Openreach engineer when they took a look in the cabinet. The Openreach engineer used some initiative and knocked the door, despite corporate having instructed them not to as I understand. Took one look at the router, said yep, that's ADSL2, and tore up the order. My customer has been in contact with Sky and they are now handling the order as a standard ADSL to Fibre upgrade and a router is in the post. The customer will be moving to Zen in 6 months time, as soon as their 18 months contract with Sky expires.

    One thing I ought to make clear. In my experience the local Openreach engineers are pretty good. Their schedules are overbooked by head office as a matter of course which sometimes leads to corner cutting. BT contractors are another kettle of fish entirely.

    I will want to add something to the 'free market' discussion but for now...

    Yesterday we had a job on a tablet come in late in the day. I was tempted to put it in the queue for the following day but we are trying to make a special effort so I squeezed it in. My wife dropped it back at 7.00PM. The customer was so grateful he rang up this morning to tell us he and his wife had been clapping for us last night.

    Thanks again everyone and to Hexus for providing the facility to blurt it out.

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    Re: Worrying about broadband

    any time bud, we're all getting frazzled. Seeing it in my team at work this week too.

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      • bequiet Dark Base Pro 900 Rev.2
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro x64
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      • 2 x Dell P2214H

    Re: Worrying about broadband

    Quote Originally Posted by matts-uk View Post
    My customer has been in contact with Sky and they are now handling the order as a standard ADSL to Fibre upgrade and a router is in the post. The customer will be moving to Zen in 6 months time, as soon as their 18 months contract with Sky expires.
    I hope they got a refund of the difference in cost they had been paying, and an additional amount of compensation for not doing it properly in the first place.

  22. #16
    Laird Of The Glen jimborae's Avatar
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    • jimborae's system
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      • 2 xDell 24"
      • Internet:
      • PlusNet 70Mb

    Re: Worrying about broadband

    You sir are a legend!

    I've been told by Plusnet (my ISP) that BT Wholesale/OpenReach are currently ignoring all jobs to do with line noise, speed issues, frequent disconnects etc. and are only dealing with total line failure/non conectivity. Maybe it's different for the elderly & essential workers.

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