Warranty advice (Scan)

[matts-uk]

Not really. If it was fine when you bought it then you can't claim the product was faulty when you bought it (which you have up to six years to do if you can prove it). I suppose you might be able to get a quote from the manufacturer saying that the product should have lasted longer than 18 months without error, so to not do so would mean the product was faulty.

The 6 year limitation within the Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies to 'finished goods.' A motherboard is a component part that I doubt would be included. Implicit in the sale of components is the condition they will be fitted by a competent person. Good luck arguing that a competent person would continue to use a component they believed to be faulty.

As someone on the other side of the fence as it were, in the business of operating an independent retail IT workshop. It is quite scary to read threads like this that highlight what a minority of customers think they are entitled to. Honestly, a £120 parts purchase, 28 months down the line, you believe it reasonable (in Law) for the retailer to remain liable? Thankfully it is not the case.

Generally speaking customers have 30 days to raise an objection after which they are deemed to have 'accepted' a transaction, warts and all. For instance should a customer RMA a part and it is returned no fault found, by not raising an objection within 30 days the customer infers agreement to there being no fault.

Generally speaking 'use' is a customer benefit deemed to have a financial value. Regardless of the presence of a fault by choosing to use the parts the customer chooses to take the benefit that reduces the value of their financial loss. The most the customer of a £120 motherboard can lose is the £120 purchase cost and £20 of that was VAT. After 28 months of use the potential loss is (probably) near zero.

A warranty period doesn't actually give any guarantee that the product won't develop a fault, it just says they'll cover the costs of repairing/replacing if it does do so.

Manufacturer warranties are a grey area as the customer does not have a contract with the manufacturer at point of sale. For a manufacturer warranty to be enforceable the customer needs to form a contract with the manufacturer, usually through a product registration process. In most cases manufacturer warranties include stringent conditions. For instance, fitting RAM with a part# the manufacturer has certified as working with a particular model of motherboard.

Retailer warranties in the UK rarely provide entitlement beyond statutory rights and typically serve as a means to ease a sale. Legally speaking a retailer warranty is a promise, similar to the promises a salesman makes at point of sale. Insurance policies can come advertised as warranties. The contract is between the customer and an insurance company, with the retailer merely acting as the agent and not liable for the contents of the policy. Shady retailers may claim these insurances replace your statutory rights but they do not.

So your only line of action I think is with the handling under your warranty claim. If the warranty conditions stipulate scan must be able to replicate it and they couldn't then that's probably that. If you have evidence that they didn't even try then perhaps that's another route, but that's unlikely.

Should a customer believe goods are faulty the burden of proof lies with them; especially after 22 months. Customers are entitled to seek qualified independent testing but typically choose not to due to the cost. The retailer is not obliged to incur the cost by providing a testing service free of charge. Free testing by the retailer is a best efforts gesture of good will.

Unfortunately you pay your money and take your choice.

You pays your money and choose your level of risk, is more accurate. When you pay a business to build your PC the business carries the majority of the financial risks. Carrying the risk is a large part of the service customers are paying for. Retail IT is challenging due to the complexity of the product, high capital values and wafer thin margins on top. There are certain goods and services my business could sell but does not as I can't (yet) afford the potential liability.

I fully understand how individual customers can end up feeling aggrieved when they discover both parties to a purchase contract are taking a financial risk but it is a little disappointing to see unreasonable expectations being reinforced. Consumer protection laws in the UK are excellent and firmly on the side of the customer as it is.

Disclosure. I have used Scan in a private and professional capacity for at least 10 years. My current business places a couple orders a week with them. In my experience Scan are one of the easier IT suppliers to deal with in general and when things don't go according to plan. We have had the odd problem over the years but on the whole, they are pretty good in going beyond what they are obliged to. The balance between service and price is excellent, in my opinion.

I am not a fan of Amazon and the service we get is very mixed. Amazon are often accused of bullying market place sellers into un-viable business models, encouraging sellers to set up to sell as much as possible as quickly as possible, with every intention of going bust. Rinse and repeat.

To be clear. IANAL. Buy where you will.

[Jonj1611]

And that last sentence says it all, having used many places in the past including small independents I couldn't care less about Amazon's business practices, I know if I buy from them I will either get my money back or a replacement within the warranty period no matter when it happens, even if buying from a third party due to the a to z guarantee, no stupid you have used the device for a year so we are knocking 90% off the refund or anything like that.

Everyone's mileage will vary but I will always tell people to buy from Amazon over anyone like Scan or other retailers just down to the fact of the return policy. I used to recommend Scan all day long but have had similar issues as others with Scan returns.

[Spud1]

I must admit I have never ever had Amazon offer a part refund or a refurbed replacement or refuse to help, has that happened to you? I have returned a lot of things to Amazon and made some claims under warranty never had that happen

Yes - but only /after/ the warranty period e.g. in a situation like the OPs. During warranty i've never had an issue.

[Jonj1611]

Ah I see, I think my example was that the OP did contact Scan within the warranty period hence why in that situation they would have offered a full refund or replacement(if available). Can't say I have dealt with them outside a warranty period so I cannot comment on that

[MrJim]

Ah I see, I think my example was that the OP did contact Scan within the warranty period hence why in that situation they would have offered a full refund or replacement(if available). Can't say I have dealt with them outside a warranty period so I cannot comment on that

I'm fairly sure I've read posts in the past on here where people have been offered only a partial refund from Scan on items within the warranty period. I'm also pretty sure Scan wouldn't offer anything at all if the item was outside of its warranty period.

[Jonj1611]

Yes I have seen that plenty of times on here over the years, as for outside the warranty period I cannot say and to be honest I wouldn't expect any retailer to offer anything outside the warranty

[matts-uk]

And that last sentence says it all, having used many places in the past including small independents I couldn't care less about Amazon's business practices, I know if I buy from them I will either get my money back or a replacement within the warranty period no matter when it happens, even if buying from a third party due to the a to z guarantee, no stupid you have used the device for a year so we are knocking 90% off the refund or anything like that.

This is what the the Amazon A to z guarantee has to say about it.

"You can file an A-to-z refund request when all of the following apply:
...
4. You have waited no longer than 90 days from the Estimated Delivery Date to file your claim."

So no. You are not entitled to a refund from Amazon beyond 90 days from the expected delivery date.

Entitlement to claim against a market place seller is exactly the same as for any other retailer in the UK. I understand partial refunds can be hard for customers to swallow but it is what the law deems reasonable. Customers get no refund at all from Amazon sellers who liquidate 90 days after delivery.

Everyone's mileage will vary but I will always tell people to buy from Amazon over anyone like Scan or other retailers just down to the fact of the return policy. I used to recommend Scan all day long but have had similar issues as others with Scan returns.

It is your financial risk and your right to buy from whomever you like. If you find a business offering a full refund on a £500 GPU 11 months down the line, you are entitled to take advantage and carry the risk they may not be in business so long. It is your choice to recommend whom you like and I fully respect that choice too.

What I find irksome is not the recommendation nor the lack of it nor the taking advantage. What irritates me is the slagging off. The claim that a business has rubbish service because they did not meet some unreasonable expectation that no one is entitled to and no viable business can meet.

Good customer service to my mind is the willingness of the retailer to go beyond strictly what was paid for, beyond what the customer has the right to expect. In my experience Scan are willing to do that, to a reasonable extent.

P.S. We are doing well with Amazon deliveries this morning. A 'jet black table' that is white, a 'genuine' charger that is counterfeit and 'new' battery that has been repackaged and is broken. Three out of three, not bad

[Jonj1611]

We are talking about the OP here so which part of what they said in your view is Scan going beyond what was paid for? You say they are willing to do that or are you talking generally?

Ah yes you went to the trouble of looking up the a to z gaurantee, thanks for that. However with Amazon if it has failed within the warranty period regardless of the a to z gaurantee and a retailer fails to refund then Amazon will get involved generally meaning a refund.

So you had 3 Amazon deliveries and they were all wrong? Thats terrible bad luck, I have had hundreds of deliveries and only ever had 2 items that were wrong.

However I feel we will never agree on Amazon, so you stay shopping where you like and I will continue shopping at Amazon

[pastymuncher]

Don't MSI motherboards have a 3 year warranty?

[Jonj1611]

It is but not sure what it was when the OP purchased the board

[Nelly.]

Don't MSI motherboards have a 3 year warranty?

Well these techs at retailers never seem to be that clued up, chances are the original poster ends up sending it direct to the manufacturer and you will get the RMA sorted.

MSI warranty of Graphics Cards and Motherboards has been three-years since 2011. So if you upload the actual receipt once registered on the MSI website, the warranty should last till October 2020. I would suggest the original poster registers the product on the MSI website if he hasn't already done so, then send MSI a webnote regarding the situation, MSI will probally let him do a direct RMA via MSI Netherlands.

https://register.msi.com/

[matts-uk]

We are talking about the OP here so which part of what they said in your view is Scan going beyond what was paid for? You say they are willing to do that or are you talking generally?

It is not so much my view as my understanding of the Law that governs my business activities. I weighed into this only when the barrack room lawyering got surreal.

The OP appears to have incorrectly assumed that Scan are liable for the manufacturer's extended warranty - They are not. The OPs contract with Scan is for the supply of parts. The manufacturer's offer of enhanced warranty entitlement was supplied along with the part, similar to the offers found inside a Sunday supplement and various other boxes. Scan are no more liable for the promise made by MSI than the Sunday Times is.

To be entitled to the MSI offer the OP needs to form a contract with MSI, typically by completing product registration and complying with any reasonable conditions, such as fitting approved RAM Etc. If there is no contract there is no obligation.

Scan's obligation to the OP, to prove they delivered a component free of fault, ended 90 days after delivery. If the OP subsequently believes there was a fault at time of delivery they have to prove it and are liable for the costs of proving it.

When the OP complained 22 months later, Scan would be within their rights to tell the OP to bugger off and plenty of retailers do that. Scan did not do that. Scan volunteered to take on the warranty claim and test the motherboard. That is how Scan went above and beyond in the case of the OP. It is the OP's choice to take advantage of Scan's offer of time and resource for free.

In my view the OP is not complaining about the service they received from Scan. The OP is complaining about the test result (a subject close to my heart). What do you expect Scan to do about it? Submitting the claim after finding no fault would be fraudulent.

Ah yes you went to the trouble of looking up the a to z gaurantee, thanks for that. However with Amazon if it has failed within the warranty period regardless of the a to z gaurantee and a retailer fails to refund then Amazon will get involved generally meaning a refund.

Yes. I read documentation, test specifications, terms and conditions and I read them fully - My wife says I eat them. I have at times pitched my business services with the tag line, "We read the manual so you don't have to."

As I said in my first post, when you follow all the links, strip away the spin of the flowery language, what Amazon are promising UK customers is little more than their statutory rights, in my opinon. The one thing I found Amazon promise that they are not obliged to is free product support.

So you had 3 Amazon deliveries and they were all wrong? Thats terrible bad luck, I have had hundreds of deliveries and only ever had 2 items that were wrong.

Not bad luck, about normal. My business orders 1000s of packages a year. We sell parts within repairs and related services. Yesterday was (ironically) a bad day for Amazon but we will average out with around 3% of our Amazon orders having issues. e-bay will be around 7% and I have given up on Aliexpress entirely. Scan, you might not like this, come in at <1% causing us an issue and have been our preferred supplier for the last few years.

However I feel we will never agree on Amazon, so you stay shopping where you like and I will continue shopping at Amazon

Are we disagreeing? I have been at pains to say shop where you like.

[Jonj1611]

Indeed interesting reading, so OP shop at someone like Amazon and get your money back(on sold by Amazon goods) or somewhere like Scan where you likely won't after a certain time period. But after 6 months contact the manufacturer and go direct to them with warranty issues. There we go.

[matts-uk]

Indeed interesting reading, so OP shop at someone like Amazon and get your money back(on sold by Amazon goods) or somewhere like Scan where you likely won't after a certain time period.

Nope. Read the Amazon Ts&Cs. Amazon promise the same rights as Scan do. Virtually every legitimate UK retailer subject to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 promises no more than your statutory rights. Why would they promise more? The Ts&Cs help avoid the cost of going to court to establish what those rights are, is all.

Generally. Within 14 days you can have a refund, no questions asked, provided you return the part in the condition you received it. Up to 30 days you are entitled to a refund on goods that have not been delivered in a reasonable time and free of faults. Beyond 60 days you are entitled to a repair or partial refund. Beyond 90 days you must prove there was a fault at time of delivery. Any other measure is at the discretion of the retailer, who will probably make a decision based on what the item cost and the margin that was made.

Where free testing is provided the retailer's goal is typically to quickly identify the presence of a fault, so the item can be returned to the manufacturer and the customer satisfied as far as they can be. The worse possible outcome is no fault, as it may take longer to exhaust the testing procedures and the customer is unlikely to be happy.

But after 6 months contact the manufacturer and go direct to them with warranty issues. There we go.

That is good advice, in my opinion. Manufacturers often have the most headroom in the sale. Remember to register the product earlier rather than later and follow any conditions.

[Jonj1611]

All good advice.

Think I will stick with Amazon still. Cheers for the info

[dannyboy75]

Just to close this thread off, for the benefit of anyone in a similar situation - I contacted MSI's European RMA service (in Poland) and they've agreed to repair/replace the board, providing I cover the cost of postage to Poland. That seems a fair compromise to me, so a good outcome.