Organ donation law has changed

[Saracen999]

In case you missed it and your wishex are no longer reflected, changes to organ donation law came into effect yesterday - May 20th 2020.

The system ix nos opt-out. That is, your condent will be presumed, unless you actively opt-out.

See .... https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/hel...pt-out-system/

[Spreadie]

Fair enough. If i'm dead, I ain't gunna need it.

[Hoonigan]

I still find the fact that it has taken until 2020, 66 years after the first human transplant, for this to be a thing. It should be bloody mandatory!

[ik9000]

I'm uneasy about this - presumed consent I mean. It that rational? The principle of organ donation seems reasonable - but why make it opt out? That seems weird to me? What was wrong with opt-in?

[sammyc]

I'm uneasy about this - presumed consent I mean. It that rational? The principle of organ donation seems reasonable - but why make it opt out? That seems weird to me? What was wrong with opt-in?

Working on the assumption that reasonable numbers of people are willing but have not got around to opting in = lost opportunities, I guess.

btw FREEPOST RRZKSHUX-SBCK, NHSBT, Fox Den Road, Stoke Gifford, Bristol BS34 8RR for anyone that wants to check/amend their current status without going online or telephoning. https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/hel...waAtFPEALw_wcB

Fine if you want to opt in, but mandatory? can't agree with that.

[DDY]

I wouldn't hesitate to accept a donated organ if I needed one, I think it would be selfish of me to deny others if they were in the same position needing a transplant.

I have already opted-in, so nothing changes for me.

Though I do worry that my decision would be vetoed by my parents.

Years ago when I received my donor card, the acompanying letter mentioned the importance of having a conversation with my immedate family to inform them of my wishes, because the ultimate decision would fall to them.

The reaction from my parents was negative and they were quite upset, they didn't want to continue the conversation and I don't think this is something I could ever bring up with them again, so I hope they consider my wishes if it ever comes to that.

I wonder how this conversaion will go for others, now that the system is opt-out.

[Saracen999]

Working on the assumption that reasonable numbers of people are willing but have not got around to opting in = lost opportunities, I guess.

btw FREEPOST RRZKSHUX-SBCK, NHSBT, Fox Den Road, Stoke Gifford, Bristol BS34 8RR for anyone that wants to check/amend their current status without going online or telephoning. https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/hel...waAtFPEALw_wcB

Fine if you want to opt in, but mandatory? can't agree with that.

Yeah, I think that's exactly the argument for changing to presumed consent and opt-out .... simple inertia means that lots of people that would opt-in if they thought about it never get around to it, and people on the transplant list die while waiting.

It's a stark as that. It saves lives.

I've carried a donor card for, I don't know how long but it must be decades, but there's still something about presumed consent that makes me twitchy, uncomfortable. Very twitvhy. Weird.

[ik9000]

I remember watching a US TV drama (so fiction but...) where there was a horrible scene where the hospital staff were being pressured to not continue to treat a patient (not take a long-shot) to revive them so that the organs could be harvested without risking detioration. "Think of all the people it can help letting this one go... the odds are against it working... etc".

It made me wonder about a system where there might be competing factors at play. Having your organs taken when you've genuinely gone is one thing, but that programme made me wonder about the risks of creating a situation where more healthy people are not being offered certain treatments as their organs are some kind of desirable commodity.

What if tests show you have a particularly good match / high chance of compatability with a number of people on the wish list etc etc. And what if you're on holiday when the accident happened so your next of kin aren't around to ask? "Ah yeah, we've already done it, sorry too late". "So did you do everything you could to save them??" "er, yeah, sure...." And then take it into a privatised system where money speaks - do you find Doctors being pressurised to find matches for wealthy funders? Granted that is all a big leap, but it's that kind of worst-case that should be foreseen and legal checks and balances introduced to prevent. Have any such provisions been made does anyone know?

[Hoonigan]

because the ultimate decision would fall to them.

Please pardon my French but this is a topic I'm very passionate about. I'm at 30 blood donations so far (aged 28), have donated bone marrow through the Anthony Nolan charity, and have been signed up to the organ donor register since I was very young. I think it's a hugely important thing to do and try my best to ensure I can help desperately unwell people have a better life.

What is the point of a system where you opt in to donate your organs upon your death, which are entirely pointless to you, if someone else then gets to say "nah, you're not having them". Why does someone else get to make that decision for me?

Gonna be hypothetical here. If my mother said no, but they took my organs anyway, behind her back, and saved 3 lives, and then buried me. Would my mam know? Nope. She wouldn't have a clue. It would not make one single iota of a difference. But it would, quite literally, change the lives of other people.

Man, stuff like this really, really, really winds me up. Such a backwards idiotic society sometimes.

[sammyc]

What is the point of a system where you opt in to donate your organs upon your death, which are entirely pointless to you, if someone else then gets to say "nah, you're not having them". Why does someone else get to make that decision for me?

Here, we agree - as I read the info, it doesn't stringently read as "the ultimate decision would fall to them" - see below, but in any case, as far as I'm concerned your wishes should be 100% respected after death. Same as leaving your money to the cat's home, asking that your letters & paperwork should be destroyed or kept private, all of this stuff - should be no overriding of wishes imo. (Which is my basic objection to mandatory donation, ie taking away control from the individual.)

"What if my friends or family object to my organ donation decision?

If your family, or those closest to you, object to donation even when you have given your explicit permission (either by telling relatives, friends or clinical staff, by joining the NHS Organ Donor Register or by carrying a donor card) healthcare professionals will discuss the matter sensitively with them.

They will be encouraged to accept your decision and it will be made clear that they do not have the legal right to veto or overrule your decision. There may, nevertheless, be cases where it would be inappropriate for donation to go ahead if donation would cause distress to your family.

[Saracen999]

I remember watching a US TV drama (so fiction but...) where there was a horrible scene where the hospital staff were being pressured to not continue to treat a patient (not take a long-shot) to revive them so that the organs could be harvested without risking detioration. "Think of all the people it can help letting this one go... the odds are against it working... etc".

It made me wonder about a system where there might be competing factors at play. Having your organs taken when you've genuinely gone is one thing, but that programme made me wonder about the risks of creating a situation where more healthy people are not being offered certain treatments as their organs are some kind of desirable commodity.

What if tests show you have a particularly good match / high chance of compatability with a number of people on the wish list etc etc. And what if you're on holiday when the accident happened so your next of kin aren't around to ask? "Ah yeah, we've already done it, sorry too late". "So did you do everything you could to save them??" "er, yeah, sure...." And then take it into a privatised system where money speaks - do you find Doctors being pressurised to find matches for wealthy funders? Granted that is all a big leap, but it's that kind of worst-case that should be foreseen and legal checks and balances introduced to prevent. Have any such provisions been made does anyone know?

That scenario isn't entirely fictional, ik9000. It's extremely rare, but it happened. Californial about 10 years ago, IIRC.

[Galant]

My first reaction was also of the ho-hum variety - make sense. When I tried to consider why this might be an issue for some (aside from those with religious objections) what occurred to me is that some might see this as a step towards the government believing they have ownership rights to the bodies of the nation. The ability to opt out obviously means that it isn't seen that way at present, but fear of the usual creeping progression of things wouldn't be entirely irrational.

[kalniel]

All your base body are belong to us.

Actually I'm in favour. As posted above it's mostly about resolving the situation where a family disagrees with the person's wishes.

[ik9000]

My first reaction was also of the ho-hum variety - make sense. When I tried to consider why this might be an issue for some (aside from those with religious objections) what occurred to me is that some might see this as a step towards the government believing they have ownership rights to the bodies of the nation. The ability to opt out obviously means that it isn't seen that way at present, but fear of the usual creeping progression of things wouldn't be entirely irrational.

There is that I suppose. How long before we all have to be screened "to avoid time wastage after death" etc. Then how long before we're told we get a knock on the door and told we have to donate a kidney because we're an ideal match etc etc. Sounds crazy doesn't it, but I just feel very uneasy about the trajectory that is started with this approach. Especially with the current nit-wits we have running the country.

[Helios451]

There is that I suppose. How long before we all have to be screened "to avoid time wastage after death" etc. Then how long before we're told we get a knock on the door and told we have to donate a kidney because we're an ideal match etc etc. Sounds crazy doesn't it, but I just feel very uneasy about the trajectory that is started with this approach. Especially with the current nit-wits we have running the country.

I'm all for this, having signed petitions for it years ago. I'm not so worried about forced donation, as I think that medical professionalism and human decency will always prevail, albeit sometimes only eventually.

I'm more concerned about the use of big data by insurance companies and the healthcare industry - we could have the information to have far healthier lives, but where only the wealthy minority will be able to afford it, whereas the unhealthy poor can't afford treatment or life/medical insurance.

I think your description nit-wits is possibly underplaying it a little!

[ik9000]

I'm all for this, having signed petitions for it years ago. I'm not so worried about forced donation, as I think that medical professionalism and human decency will always prevail, albeit sometimes only eventually.

I'm more concerned about the use of big data by insurance companies and the healthcare industry - we could have the information to have far healthier lives, but where only the wealthy minority will be able to afford it, whereas the unhealthy poor can't afford treatment or life/medical insurance.

I think your description nit-wits is possibly underplaying it a little!

I share your concerns, and re the last point, Hexus has a rather strict code of what they will let you write. The appropriate descriptors are simply not available to me!