Lost Camcorder, But No Receipt! Will the insurance Co. Pay out?

[wannabgeek]

Hi!
I don't know if i am in the right forum,please say if not!
On Easter Sunday we all went Motor racing to see a freind race and after a long tireing day some how managed to lose my camera bag with my 3 mth old Fuji Digital Camera and my 1 year old Sony Camcorder + accessories (£1300)
Luckily enough we have Insurance to cover items outside the home! Now here's the part that is worrying me! When i phoned "Legal & General" i explained what happened and was asked if i had all receipts for the lost items, i told him i would look upstairs to see if i can find them but i'm not too sure i have them, as i buy so many electrical items and mislay the receipts,but will look anyway and that i would ring him back Monday. Now i do have receipts for the Fuji, but i do not have any for the Sony or the accessories, as i got a friend "in the Army" who went to Singapore last year,and got him to bring it back the Camorder through the Duty Free,but to avoid the import Tax what he did was threw away the box and put the camcorder around his neck. So i obviosly do not have a receipt for it! Now i have looked in the Insurance Policy and it does'nt mention receipts "but i suppose its obvious really to keep em"! So should i tell the truth about singapore or just say i mislaid receipt! But won't they want the shops name where i brought it to check there records at the purcase time? Also has anybody made a claim before and if so what was the protocol?
Many thanks in advance steve
Ps sorry for long post!

[silent ben]

credit card statements could work?

[MD]

I edited out the caps in your thread title and typed it normally, I think you just mad a mistake when you typed it.

Ref the camcorder, the insurance company may state, go out and buy another one and then they will credit you back what you paid, this is what they advised me to do when I could not find the reciept.

They do this to stop people claiming for things, you have to appreciate why they are asking for it, I know when I had to claim many moons ago I moaned and moaned and eventually they agreed the claim.

m@

[Knoxville]

If you tell them about singapore then you'll end up paying all the tax you owe, because much like elephants.....customs and excise blokes never forget.

[wannabgeek]

Re Matt D! I edited out the caps in your thread title and typed it normally, I think you just mad a mistake when you typed it.

the insurance company may state, go out and buy another one and then they will credit you back what you paid, this is what they advised me to do when I could not find the reciept.

....If you look in my profile your see why the spelling mistakes sometimes! ..But Cheers anyway!
Re Camcorder: I hope thats still the case now as i definately will buy the same Model as its the Best Camcorder in that price Bracket!
....And true about Elephants! I will keep "Stum"!

[MD]

wannabgeek, Sorry, I would not have considered looking in your profile, you did spell it all correctly, its just you hit your Caps lock as you typed, hence I changed it for you.... its not a problem, ill remember for next time though

They should still do it with the camcorder, ask them, but be careful what you say cos otherwise it will just look like you are trying to get a free camcorder out of them, put the onous on them, ask them, becuase you can't find the reciept for it, what are my alternatives....

m@

[wannabgeek]

wannabgeek, Sorry, I would not have considered looking in your profile, you did spell it all correctly, its just you hit your Caps lock as you typed, hence I changed it for you.... its not a problem, ill remember for next time though

They should still do it with the camcorder, ask them, but be careful what you say cos otherwise it will just look like you are trying to get a free camcorder out of them, put the onous on them, ask them, becuase you can't find the reciept for it, what are my alternatives....

m@

No probs Matt!
I did say what if i can't find receipt! He said ..All they need is the shop and the rough date of purchase so they can trace the shops records back! I should of said something then really! Now i'm afraid it looks like i am coming back with a different awnser each time! I would of thought the only time a receipt is needed was if you had to take out an individual Insurance for a item that cost... say over a Grand! They must have price line for that,or is it they need a receipt for everything that you claim! Should'nt of thought so!

Edit; Also what i cannot understand is even though i told him i may not have all receipts,he said JESSOPS would get in touch with me monday to see about replacement items! Surely they would'nt pay out before they have all the relevant receipts! Or would they? I was hoping this post would be read by someone in a simular situation!

[Saracen]

.... Edit; Also what i cannot understand is even though i told him i may not have all receipts,he said JESSOPS would get in touch with me monday to see about replacement items! Surely they would'nt pay out before they have all the relevant receipts! Or would they? I was hoping this post would be read by someone in a simular situation!

The reason he said Jessops, I would guess, is that in this situation, they'll probably replace the actual items, either with the same model or the current equivalent, rather than sending money. In fact, insurance companies are increasingly doing this. There's a couple of reasons. Firstly, they feel it cuts down on fraud because people prefer money. Secondly, it cuts down on their costs, as they have arrangements with suppliers over cost, rather than paying full retail for everything. And, if replacing with an equivalent model, they'll probably rely on Jessops for advice (or even a decision) as to what an equivalent is.

My (limited) experience with this is that you don't need to produce receipts, though it certainly helps. I had a load of camera gear nicked when my car was stolen some years ago. The insurance company sent a loss adjuster round to see me. We chatted for a while, I produced the receipts for the items I had, but didn't have them all. Some of the gear had been bought in the UK, but a fair bit in the US. Thay paid out for everything, with the only deduction they made being a "wear and tear" reduction for lost clothing (we'd been away for a long weekend and had suitcases, etc in the car too).

My inference was that the loss adjuster was there to assess me as much as anything, and he obviously decided the claim was legit .... which it was.

[wannabgeek]

Re saracen


..So did you tell him some of the items was purchased in the states, if so it obviously did not matter. Also did you give him a price for the stuff you lost and if so was it the cost you paid in $ or was it the £ RRP? Anyway i hope thats what they will do in my case, i can understand thats the way they deal with it,and why not!

[Saracen]

Re saracen


..So did you tell him some of the items was purchased in the states, if so it obviously did not matter. Also did you give him a price for the stuff you lost and if so was it the cost you paid in $ or was it the £ RRP? Anyway i hope thats what they will do in my case, i can understand thats the way they deal with it,and why not!

Yes, I told him. I had the receipts for most of it, including most of the stuff from the US. Even for the stuff I didn't have reciepts for, I had the boxes though ... and the serial numbers.

The prices I gave were UK-based replacement prices. I bought in the US because my brother lives out there, and I visit a fair bit. But I needed the
kit replacing here, not waiting 'til next time I went to the US. My insurance policy covered me 'new-for-old', and all-risk, so I was covered for the loss. If he'd offered US prices, I'd have said "fine, but add in the cost of flights and hotels for me to go out and get the replacements in the US again".

I suspect that whether you get goods, or cash, and what valuation gets put on your property, varies from one company to another, so I'd advise against relying too much on what happened to me as anything more than a guide. You may not get the same reaction from a different company, and I am going back about, oh, 10 years-ish.

I must say, I expected a bit of a battle over the items I didn't have receipts for (including a £600 lens), but he didn't bat an eyelid. I can only assume that he read the claim as genuine.

But insurance is supposed to leave you no better off, but no worse off, than you were before the incident that generated the loss. That's why the loss adjuster knocked some money off for "wear and tear" on the clothes .... because the clothes had had some use. Had they all been brand new, I could have (maybe would have) argued about that wear and tear charge, but it reduced a £3500 claim by about £80. It wasn't worth the hassle of arguing it, and was probably fair anyway.

If you bought goods in Singapore, and can't get back out there to replace them, then I'd argue that just refunding the Singaporean cost of the goods is not fair compensation, because it would well leave you out of pocket and unable to replace the goods, short of incurring the cost of going to Singapore (or the US in my case) to do it.

The thing is, legally speaking, insurance contracts are what is known as "uberimae fidei" ... which means "of utmost good faith". That means you have to tell the insurance company of anything they might find relevant when assessing your application and determining the premium. Obvious examples are
declaring motoring convictions when getting car insurance, and previous health problems when getting travel or health insurance. If you don't declare something the insurer would have found relevant, even if you didn't think it relevant, you can find them refusing to pay up on claims because you withheld relevant information. That is the principle of 'uberimae fidei' in action.

But it cuts both ways. Just as you have to be fair with them, so they have to be fair with you. Losing a receipt (in my view) is dodgy grounds for rejecting a claim, though ensuring you keep receipts is obviously a sensible precaution, because it hepls avoids issues later on.

Also, don't assume you necessarily have to accept any offer the insurer makes. You can fight them. It's an offer, not necessarily carved in stone. If they decline to pay you, don't assume that's the end of it. You could rejectan unreasonable offer, and explain to them why you regards it as unreasonable. Ultimately, you could seek legal advice, or have a chat with a Citizen's Advice Bureau. You do, after all, have a contract with the insurer and they can be held to it by a court.

[wannabgeek]

Re Saracen:
Thanks for a excellent reply, you coul'dnt have explained it any better to me! As for "uberimae fidei" we are most definately of good character with no convictions and its not as if we have claimed for things in the past, i have heared of people doing Ins claims every time they go away and they still get paid out!
Just thought of something,i do have some photo's which the wife took when i was filming my daughter and that clearly shows the camcorder i am holding! Maybe that will help them ! Cheers again Steve