LastMinute (or not) Refunds

[Saracen999]

I notice that the BBC have an article saying the CMA (Competition & Markets Authority), the travel industry regulator, has issued LastMinute.com with a final warning to pay out refunds for pandemic-based cancellations after many months of delays and failure to comply with the law. Many thousands of customers have been left waiting months, and a lot are still waiting. So the CMA has finally lost patience and told LastMinute.com that court action will commence in 7 days unless they fulfil not only their legal obligations, but commitments they made to the CMA to get this done.

I didn't realise that the LastMinute bit referred to their reluctance or inability to refund customers and comply with the law.

Personally, while I recognise that the travel industry was caught flat-footed by the pandemic, and that they couldn't realistically have seen this coming, and further, that they are probably caught between the rock and a hard place if they are reliant on getting refunds in from suppliers they've paid to have the money to refund their customers, none of that excuses them for taking this long.

This leads me to two conclusions. First, in the future, LastMinute go onto my personal list of companies to avoid touching with a bargepole. Why? Avoiding stress, hassle and general pain-in-the-buttedness is important to me, and they have demonstrated, more than sufficiently, that I cannot trust them to do that, regardless of why they haven't paid up.

Secondly, the fact that they're so tardy in this regard is noticable mainly because they are large and high-profile, but they are far from the only culprits. A large segment of the travel industry is guilty, too. Perhaps a lesson us consumers ought to drawn from this is that when a company has a reputation for being ultra-competitive, it is at least in part because they trim margins to the bone, and that leaves them especially vulnerable if things don't go to plan. Less 'competitive' companies, maybe, have a bit more reserves to draw on when the smelly stuff hits the fan.

However, in my hassle-avoidance mode, that tells me .... don't risk booking with the cheapest. Book with the best, to avoid the level of risk (though nobody is entirely immune), and be prepared to pay more.

I wonder how much damage LastMinute have done to levels of consumer trust in their brand because of this. They have certainly permanently wrecked it for me ... but then, I'm pretty risk-averse, and long have been.

But more than that, even, I wonder how much damage this, and Covid restrictions, constantly changing quarantine and travel rules, etc, both here and abroad, will have had on our overall proclivity for hopping on planes at the drop of a hat? No doubt, lots of people are gasping for a holiday in the sun and will go first chance they get. Me? No way am I setting one foot on a ship, plane or even Eurostar until (and if) this pandemic thing goes right away. For the foreseeable, my butt (and the rest of me) is staying right here. Which, unless I'm a very isolated case, is not good news for the travel industry.

So LastMinute's reluctance to refund has already got them permanently added to my personal blacklist, but I wonder just how widespread, and long-lasting the damage to the travel industry might be?

Mind you, it does bode pretty well, in the short term at least, for those that do still want to risk it and travel, as I can see travel suppliers being desperate for customers. I imagine there will be some tasty discounts. Longer term, a lot of travel firms and even airlines will probably go broke .... or already have.

Times, they are a-changin'.

[badass]

I notice that the BBC have an article saying the CMA (Competition & Markets Authority), the travel industry regulator, has issued LastMinute.com with a final warning to pay out refunds for pandemic-based cancellations after many months of delays and failure to comply with the law. Many thousands of customers have been left waiting months, and a lot are still waiting. So the CMA has finally lost patience and told LastMinute.com that court action will commence in 7 days unless they fulfil not only their legal obligations, but commitments they made to the CMA to get this done.

I didn't realise that the LastMinute bit referred to their reluctance or inability to refund customers and comply with the law.

Personally, while I recognise that the travel industry was caught flat-footed by the pandemic, and that they couldn't realistically have seen this coming, and further, that they are probably caught between the rock and a hard place if they are reliant on getting refunds in from suppliers they've paid to have the money to refund their customers, none of that excuses them for taking this long.

This leads me to two conclusions. First, in the future, LastMinute go onto my personal list of companies to avoid touching with a bargepole. Why? Avoiding stress, hassle and general pain-in-the-buttedness is important to me, and they have demonstrated, more than sufficiently, that I cannot trust them to do that, regardless of why they haven't paid up.

Secondly, the fact that they're so tardy in this regard is noticable mainly because they are large and high-profile, but they are far from the only culprits. A large segment of the travel industry is guilty, too. Perhaps a lesson us consumers ought to drawn from this is that when a company has a reputation for being ultra-competitive, it is at least in part because they trim margins to the bone, and that leaves them especially vulnerable if things don't go to plan. Less 'competitive' companies, maybe, have a bit more reserves to draw on when the smelly stuff hits the fan.

However, in my hassle-avoidance mode, that tells me .... don't risk booking with the cheapest. Book with the best, to avoid the level of risk (though nobody is entirely immune), and be prepared to pay more.

I wonder how much damage LastMinute have done to levels of consumer trust in their brand because of this. They have certainly permanently wrecked it for me ... but then, I'm pretty risk-averse, and long have been.

But more than that, even, I wonder how much damage this, and Covid restrictions, constantly changing quarantine and travel rules, etc, both here and abroad, will have had on our overall proclivity for hopping on planes at the drop of a hat? No doubt, lots of people are gasping for a holiday in the sun and will go first chance they get. Me? No way am I setting one foot on a ship, plane or even Eurostar until (and if) this pandemic thing goes right away. For the foreseeable, my butt (and the rest of me) is staying right here. Which, unless I'm a very isolated case, is not good news for the travel industry.

So LastMinute's reluctance to refund has already got them permanently added to my personal blacklist, but I wonder just how widespread, and long-lasting the damage to the travel industry might be?

Mind you, it does bode pretty well, in the short term at least, for those that do still want to risk it and travel, as I can see travel suppliers being desperate for customers. I imagine there will be some tasty discounts. Longer term, a lot of travel firms and even airlines will probably go broke .... or already have.

Times, they are a-changin'.

Lots of very valid points there. One way I ensure I am "protected" is by only using my credit card to pay for pretty much everything. As soon as the supplier breaks the contract and/or the law, I contest the payment through the cc company's own process then. It's usually pretty easy after that.

[Saracen999]

Good point, and a good thing to remember in general. It does, IIRC, only apply to purchases between £100 and £30k, at least as far as legal rights go, but card company policies might go a bit further. And that range covers the vast bulk of anything that matters anyway.

[kalniel]

I find it slightly ironic that this largely affects people who booked in advance, rather than at the last minute

[Iota]

No doubt, lots of people are gasping for a holiday in the sun and will go first chance they get. Me? No way am I setting one foot on a ship, plane or even Eurostar until (and if) this pandemic thing goes right away. For the foreseeable, my butt (and the rest of me) is staying right here. Which, unless I'm a very isolated case, is not good news for the travel industry.

I doubt you're an isolated case. I've had zero inclination to do so for the last 20 years and prefer to spend my hard earned downtime seeing family and friends, as well as spend time properly doing all those little jobs that mount up over time that need attention. That and time for gaming, it would be a bit hard to take my PC with me on holiday abroad.

Each to their own I guess.

I certainly wouldn't consider using LastMinute.com or any other web based booking service, I've always preferred using Hayes Travel for those times I have gone on holiday somewhere. Maybe when I retire I may take some time out travelling, but that's a long way off and a lot can happen in the intervening years. Glad to see the CMA trying to look after the consumers who have been neglected though.

[Saracen999]

....

Each to their own I guess.

....

Absolutely. No doubt, for lots of people, holidays (especially sun and sand/pool) are great for destressing from day-to-day stuff. Much of my working life, though, has involved travel, for up to about 6 to 8 trips to Norh America or the Far East, per year, and I couldn't even guess at the number of European jaunts. Lots of my friends thought that was really great, jet-setting all over the planet, until I explained the realities of countless hours in airport lounges, airline seats and hotels. Even though I used frequent flyer airport lounges (like AA's Admiral's Club), flew mostly business but frequently first class, and often got given complimentary hotel upgrades, they are still airports, plane seats and hotels. It's not a prospect that holds any appeal at all, for me. In fact, it probably comes in a smidge below root canal surgery on my list of fun things to do.

All that travel certainly had an upside. I got to see a lot of places I otherwise probably never would have, but it did rather ruin leisure travel in the process.

Maybe, post-epidemic, a P&O world cruise? But until such time (if ever) that Covid is a distant and unpleasant memory, no way am I volunteering for 3 months stuck in a floating virus lab or petrie dish. Right now, P&O wouldn't get me on one of those if (even if they were running) it was free .... instead of the usual £30k+.

The irony is I spent so much time hauling my chuff round the globe, I feel there's a lot of the UK I'm under-familiar with. When Covid lifts, I have plans for western Scotland, the Laker District, the Brecon Beacons and some time in my favourite childhood haunt, southern Cornwall. And that's for starters.

Right now, though, getting more than 20 yards from my front door is a treat.

[TeePee]

Most likely, they can't pay up. And they aren't the only ones. Right now the entire travel industry is surviving only on government assistance. If refunds happen, it will be from the taxpayer, via a bailout or through ATOL/ABTA. The longer Lastminute can delay and stay solvent, the longer they can keep people in work, in the hope that travel restrictions will be ended and new bookings come in. It's probably already too late.

[kalniel]

The irony is I spent so much time hauling my chuff round the globe, I feel there's a lot of the UK I'm under-familiar with. When Covid lifts, I have plans for western Scotland, the Laker District, the Brecon Beacons and some time in my favourite childhood haunt, southern Cornwall. And that's for starters.

I similarly did a lot of globe trotting for work, so as a result I tended to holiday in the the UK - all of your mentioned spots I've done extensively and loved After lock down I think I'll do the reverse - hopefully work more in the UK and do more travelling abroad. Of course, being contrary to the masses might help with prices too

[Saracen999]

Most likely, they can't pay up. And they aren't the only ones. Right now the entire travel industry is surviving only on government assistance. If refunds happen, it will be from the taxpayer, via a bailout or through ATOL/ABTA. The longer Lastminute can delay and stay solvent, the longer they can keep people in work, in the hope that travel restrictions will be ended and new bookings come in. It's probably already too late.

I suspect that that very likely is the case. They're probably in the spot of having paid over customer funds to airlines, hotels etc and are now expected to repay consumers, while struggling to get those same funds back from the airlines, hotels, etc.

But if that is why they're delaying, it does rather imply they're already insolvent, if they cannot, as opposed to will not, meet their legally mandated obligations.

I'm also sure they're far from the only ones though the CMA did point out they are one of, if not the worst .... I think "culprit" was the term they used. Perhaps more honesty to the CMA, if that is their position, might have served them better.

Either way, it's not the consumer's fault that that's how the travel industry works, but they're the ones currently being messed about by LM.

Maybe the whole industry needs a revamp so that customer funds go in some kind of trust account, like a solicitor here does if I provide funds to buy a house?

[Iota]

Maybe, post-epidemic, a P&O world cruise?

I could not think of anything worse, stuck on a boat with a load of people (including kids, shudder the thought), and herded around like cattle at destinations? Hard pass! I'd rather get stuck in an airport for 24 hours again....

[ik9000]

I could not think of anything worse, stuck on a boat with a load of people (including kids, shudder the thought), and herded around like cattle at destinations? Hard pass! I'd rather get stuck in an airport for 24 hours again....

Not to mention the dreaded norovirus which always seems to plague them all too frequently, even when covid isn't around giving them bigger concerns. You couldn't get me on one of those cruises if you paid me tbh.

[TeePee]

I suspect that that very likely is the case. They're probably in the spot of having paid over customer funds to airlines, hotels etc and are now expected to repay consumers, while struggling to get those same funds back from the airlines, hotels, etc.

But if that is why they're delaying, it does rather imply they're already insolvent, if they cannot, as opposed to will not, meet their legally mandated obligations.

I'm also sure they're far from the only ones though the CMA did point out they are one of, if not the worst .... I think "culprit" was the term they used. Perhaps more honesty to the CMA, if that is their position, might have served them better.

Either way, it's not the consumer's fault that that's how the travel industry works, but they're the ones currently being messed about by LM.

Maybe the whole industry needs a revamp so that customer funds go in some kind of trust account, like a solicitor here does if I provide funds to buy a house?

It's not the consumers fault. It's the Government's fault, and ultimately appropriate that the taxpayer pay the bill for the failure of Government. The problem with a trust account, is that Lastminute needs money to pay it's suppliers, just like with any other purchase or service which you buy from a middleman and pay for in advance. You're taking a risk that the company will remain solvent long enough to supply the product. In this case, the risk is lower thanks to Government insurance programs.

[Saracen999]

That's why it would need cross-industry action to resolve/reform. And internationally, at that.

[TeePee]

That's why it would need cross-industry action to resolve/reform. And internationally, at that.

I'm not sure what reform is needed. Government will payout when lastminute.com group goes under, if they aren't bailed out. It's a Million GBP. The lockdown bill for 2020 was just over 20,000GBP per UK household. An extra ~4p each to keep Lastminute.com's employees working doesn't seem that unreasonable.

[Iota]

An extra ~4p each to keep Lastminute.com's employees working doesn't seem that unreasonable.

Yes it does, I've had zero money thrown my direction for sitting on my arse doing nothing during all of this, why should I have to pay extra tax? Tax those who have benefitted from all of the bail outs, it certainly wasn't me.

[ik9000]

Yes it does, I've had zero money thrown my direction for sitting on my arse doing nothing during all of this, why should I have to pay extra tax? Tax those who have benefitted from all of the bail outs, it certainly wasn't me.

This was my first reaction too, but the country could really have gone to cack if they hadn't done something to help people, and it hopefully means people can go straight back into work as things reopen to help smooth things on the way out too. Some careers are more hit by it than others, and it's not fair to just say to those - you have to pay it back by yourselves. That's the kind of selfish attitude that leads to US style health care and the like. It sounds good at first but follow it to its conclusion and it leads to unfair society, injustice, an increasing wealth gap and frankly, a repugnant society I don't want to be a part of.