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Thread: Can I demand a refund?

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    Can I demand a refund?

    Hi Folks,
    My shiny new Ryzen rig appears to have developed a problem. I'm 90% sure it's the motherboard as it initially crashed in Windows, but now is also failing during memtest and even occasionally in the BIOS. The problem is that I bought it from Overclockers (back in Jan) and they're showing out of stock.

    Assuming I buy a new motherboard from somewhere else and am able to confirm it definitely IS the motherboard (and not the RAM or CPU), can I return to Overclockers for a refund? I don't want to end up with 2 motherboards, but I can't be without it for an extended period of time either.

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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    Yes.SFAIK within 6 months the onus is on the seller to prove the fault wasn't there when they sold it. The key thing is showing there is a definite fault.

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    Theoretical Element Spud1's Avatar
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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    It depends.....but hopefully.

    You have a 30 day "right to reject" - and if you notify the retailer within 30 days of purchase that it's faulty then you are legally entitled to a refund. I am 99% sure it's the notification that is key here and not the return (just like with the 14 day rules)...but i'm not an expert!

    After that, its more difficult. Legally, you then have to give the retailer an opportunity to repair or replace the item - they may still offer a refund if they are a good retailer, but this varies hugely between different places. Most places will still be sensible about this and particularly if they are OOS as in this case, its likely...but it's not guaranteed.

    I suggest giving OCUK a call and asking them before you purchase another one, just in case.

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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    I think atemporal is correct. IIRC they cannot insist on repair/replacement for a fault within the first 6 months. The expectation should be a period of adequate performance i.e. fit for purpose, and electronic and electrical goods can arguably be expected to last a lot longer than 6 months. Beyond this then a reasonable remedy is replacement/repair the latter only by consent even then. (Unless leaving the EU has changed anything which I don't think it has.). If you bought it on credit card contact them, they will be able to advise better, and remember you can reject it vie the credit card company if ocuk don't play ball assuming it was over £100 (given that most are these days sadly)

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    Theoretical Element Spud1's Avatar
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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    I think atemporal is correct. IIRC they cannot insist on repair/replacement for a fault within the first 6 months.
    You have to give them one opportunity to repair or replace first if outside of the 30 day rejection window - if that fails or they cannot do so in a reasonable length of time, then you can claim a full refund. A good example may be if they decide it needs to go back to the manufacturer in those first 6 months - that would likely be unreasonable for a motherboard, and you can push for a refund. But if they can turn it around internally within 2 weeks or less, that would be reasonable.

    AFAIK the law still doesn't define "reasonable" given that what may be reasonable varies depending on the item, which is a bit frustrating..but common sense rules generally do apply.

    The burden of proof and how long things should last for are separate (albeit related!) things that don't affect the right to a refund vs replacement/repair though.

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    Re: Can I demand a refund?


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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    You have to give them one opportunity to repair or replace first if outside of the 30 day rejection window - if that fails or they cannot do so in a reasonable length of time, then you can claim a full refund. A good example may be if they decide it needs to go back to the manufacturer in those first 6 months - that would likely be unreasonable for a motherboard, and you can push for a refund. But if they can turn it around internally within 2 weeks or less, that would be reasonable.

    AFAIK the law still doesn't define "reasonable" given that what may be reasonable varies depending on the item, which is a bit frustrating..but common sense rules generally do apply.

    The burden of proof and how long things should last for are separate (albeit related!) things that don't affect the right to a refund vs replacement/repair though.
    ^^^^^^This. All of it is exactly my understanding as well.
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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    Like Badass, my understanding is pretty much that of Spud1. Almost.

    The 6-month thing, IMHO, while true is not the issue here. That determines where the burden of proof lies in exercising standard SoGA (and later) rights, like fitness for purpose, and satisfactory quality criteria, but they involve permitting that repair/replace option which, if the OP buys another board, is not what he wants.

    There is also a right to completely reject goods, effectively as breach of contract BUT it doesn't last long. In effect, it's to cover ...

    - receiving goods,
    - quickly establishing they weren't what you ordered, or
    - don't meet claimed features/performance.

    In which case, you can "reject" them. That is different from the "inherent fault" situation, in the 6 months thing.

    So far, that's pretty much exactly as per Spud.

    My only slight digresion is that, effectively, you can "reject" goods until you "accept" them. I do NOT mean accepting delivery. That's different again.

    Three ways two "accept" goods generally are :-

    - fail to reject them quickly enough, thereby implicitly accepting. That's generally the 30 day thing.

    - accept them explicitly by saying so (again, not talking about delivery, or

    - accept them implicitly by doing something inconsistent with you not owning the goods.

    That latter example would include selling them on, destroying them, or even damaging the goods.

    None of these extra bits appear to apply here, so it's a theoretical difference (or expansion on) Spud's comment, with which I agree, for the general case not the OPs situation.
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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    so in the OP's case, if it's OOS they can't replace. I wouldn't accept repair this early for a product. Replacement yes, but if that's going to be x months wait presumably he can just ask for a refund instead?

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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    Oh, he can ask. But the question was "demand".

    Also, there's a stipulation on the repair/replace about, however it phrases it, without undue inconvenience. It certainly shouldn't be x months, unless x is 1, maximum.

    Can he demand a refund? Not if he's deemed as having "accepted" the goods, by the above criteria. Or rather, he can demand the moon on a stick, but does he have a legal right to cancel the contract and require a refund? If it's less than 28-30 days and he hasn't implicitly accepted? Yes, probably. But if he relies oin that, buys another board elsewhere and the original seller then refuses it, can he convince a judge he acted entirely reasonably and gave the seller fair chance to redress the issue?


    Oh, should have said - IANAL. This is personal opinion/discussion only.
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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    Yeah, I've just checked and it looks like I'm just outside 30 days. As I say I'm not 100% sure it's definitely the motherboard, but that's where the signs are pointing.

    I guess I can buy a new one, and worst case I end up with a 2nd brand new one that can go to eBay....

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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    Has this changed recently? It all seems far weaker than I remember it being in the past

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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    Has this changed recently? It all seems far weaker than I remember it being in the past
    From my POV it's slightly stronger now (in the consumers favour). Previously the SOGA used a lot of vague words around timing - what is now a clear 30 days, used to be a "2-4 week window" - its been tightened up a bit to make it clearer.

    It's important not to confuse these rights with retailer T&Cs, many of which give you much better options - but they are not legal rights. Distance selling rights are different again and can give you better protection against "change of mind" scenarios - but as this is really about a faulty item its a little different.

    @b0redom I hope you get it sorted either way - sounds like a real pain the backside and must be very frustrating!

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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    I recall rejecting a faulty product years ago and was able to say that "no, a repair was not acceptable. Refund please." Equally that was after two failed replacements, so maybe that is all as described above. I would be mighty miffed to buy say a new iphone, have an issue at 32 days and be told all I could expect was a repair. That doesn't seem right to me.

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    Re: Can I demand a refund?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    From my POV it's slightly stronger now (in the consumers favour). Previously the SOGA used a lot of vague words around timing - ....
    Agreed again. Note to self - post faster.

    On the subject of DSR (under whatever name) that could be argued to have weakened a bit, though I'd call it more balanced. Specifically, in that previously you could cancel under the DSR and be entitled to a refund "in any event" within 30 days. Those events, at least in theory, included not sending the goods back, leaving the seller required to refund and then maybe sue to gets either goods or payment. Now, the right to cancel and refund remains but the clock starts on sending the goods back. It's a bit less open to abuse (by consumers).

    But fundamentally, yeah, consumer rights have been codified a bit, clarified a bit and mostly, strengthed a bit. The common theme, IMHO, is "a bit". The rough edges, especially on the newer bits (e.g. DSR) have had some rough edges polished off, and older rights (going back to the '74 SoGA or earlier) codified a bit.

    But that "accept/reject" think, IK, has been there since I did consumer law as part of professional training in the very early '80s.
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