Hygiene and Viruses

[Ciber]

I'm still seeing people sneezing and coughing onto their hands and not washing those hands so I wrote this open letter to everyone and I'm not ashamed about posting it anywhere: https://jakekuyser.wordpress.com/202...r-to-everyone/

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

At least they are coughing into their hands. I have seen plenty in shops just coughing onto old people,who are still masked up even now(when they often are the most vulnerable healthwise and find them hard to use)....during a pandemic in a country with the highest amount of daily cases in Western Europe. The fact is that too many here are just selfish,"I am alright Jack types"....so people can clap all they want for the NHS,and make sad sob stories about those who were lost to the pandemic. However,people can't even be arsed in a food shop,etc to just take some basic precautions or courtesy,or even pay a bit extra towards the NHS/social care(when plenty are spending £100s or £1000s a year on expensive phones,hobbies,etc). All of these would actually help our health services,by reducing the amount of sick when we are entering the flu season, and help our companies by reducing the amount of people having to take sick days off. So in the end people can moan about this government or that government but its down to the individual to take some social responsibility. I realised during this pandemic how many people are selfish barstewards.

[Ciber]

I'm still wearing a face mask in shops etc. and it is down to the government that people are coughing and sneezing all over each other and all the stock in shops as they said it's OK to not wear face coverings any more.

The perception is that it's all OK now as the vaccine prevents infection. The truth is that it doesn't prevent infection, it's unknown how much or how little it reduces infection rates. All I know is that R is still about 1 with most adults fully vaccinated. I'm fully vaccinated and I recently got Covid19 from someone who is also fully vaccinated. The vaccine just makes it less likely people will get seriously ill and go into hospital etc. if they do get it. Due to the vaccine, neither of us has suffered any serious long term effects. That we know of. Long covid is a thing that does happen to people that get infected even if that don't get very ill.

What does seriously reduce infection rates is good hygiene and it might have prevented my own infection. Hence the open letter.

[kalniel]

and it is down to the government that people are coughing and sneezing all over each other

I think both the government and general public would argue that's certainly not down to the government. This govt definitely takes the line of 'personal responsibility' - ie, it's up to the individual to use common sense with regard to hygiene etc. and most people would agree that they don't need government rules to tell them how to behave after they sneeze.

That aside, behaviour after sneezing is one of those really interesting cultural divides - and it really does seem to be a cultural thing rather than a health thing.

On the health side it's probably good to increase the general spread of colds etc. and thus improve resistance ahead of winter. The difference is of course covid is much worse than most colds.

[MrJim]

I think both the government and general public would argue that's certainly not down to the government. This govt definitely takes the line of 'personal responsibility' - ie, it's up to the individual to use common sense with regard to hygiene etc. and most people would agree that they don't need government rules to tell them how to behave after they sneeze.

Whilst there are indeed many selfish people who have little consideration for the welfare of others, this government bears a huge responsibility for the extremely high infection rates. Having straightforward, consistent messaging regarding hygiene, without the 'politicisation' of simple, effective measures such as mask-wearing, social distancing, ventilation, and so on, would have - and still could - make a huge difference. If you want to see what true leadership looks like, just look at Jacinda Arden in New Zealand.

[Ciber]

On the health side it's probably good to increase the general spread of colds etc.

Sorry, WHAT?

[Ciber]

Whilst there are indeed many selfish people who have little consideration for the welfare of others, this government bears a huge responsibility for the extremely high infection rates. Having straightforward, consistent messaging regarding hygiene, without the 'politicisation' of simple, effective measures such as hand washing, not sneezing and coughing on your hands, mask-wearing, social distancing, ventilation, and so on, would have - and still could - make a huge difference. If you want to see what true leadership looks like, just look at Jacinda Arden in New Zealand.

I fixed that for you. You're welcome.

[Ciber]

That aside, behaviour after sneezing is one of those really interesting cultural divides - and it really does seem to be a cultural thing rather than a health thing.

As in antiquated attitudes from before viruses were discovered and modern, hygienic ways?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Even when stricter rules were enforced people didn't follow them,and the second they were relaxed,even more people couldn't be bothered despite the numbers being shown everyday. The only reason the politicians relaxed 95% of restrictions was because most people wanted it that way. The second masks were optional in shops,most stopped caring - hence why I said I saw young people not caring they were coughing in the vicinity of old people who were wearing masks. But then even when masks were mandated the same young lot used to start fighting with worried staff(I have seen this happen) had to force them to put a mask on for 5 minutes.

People CBA in this country because its all about "I'm alright Jack" and then blaiming everyone else for their crappy behaviour. So those young people will only learn the bitter lesson,if say their nan,gets ill and you see another sob story in the news about their regrets. Until then they don't care.

All we can have is useless clapping,people moaning about the NHS needing more money,yet moaning when people are forced to pay more taxes(to help with this) when they have splashed £1000 on a new gadget and so on. Remember - people vote in the politicians they want(or well the voting majority does),and politicians do things which they think the majority will give them their votes for. Politicans are drawn from our society too,so crappy politicians are indicative of our society too as they can get into positions of power. People need to take personal responsibility,especially when social media and 24/7 news is showing us what is happening worldwide. The fact is many in society just don't care and never really have.

Even if you had the best government in the world,it wouldn't work - I doubt a person like Arden would be able to do push anything in the UK(IMHO).

[kalniel]

Sorry, WHAT?

Don't forget to read the rest of the sentence.

[kompukare]

Sorry, WHAT?

Exactly!

People keep making this mistake: the developing immune system definitely benefits from some challenges (with they obvious caveat that they don't kill you or have serious long-term effects), but for adults?

Not having colds or flu fur a few seasons does no harm.

The government has handled this all very poorly. Just like last year there was no need to listen to the lobbyists of the commercial landlords and other people to stop WfH just before they announced last autumn's lockdown, making masks optimal in public transport, shops etc. was utter madness.

Luckily TfL set other rules, but for "I'm alright Jack" brigade the signal had been sent. So no wonder so many cannot be bothered

[Ciber]

Don't forget to read the rest of the sentence.

Yeah, no, the rest doesn't of the sentence doesn't work for me either. That's like the pox parties people used to have when their child got it so the other kids could get their immunity as well. Not actually a good idea as it spreads the disease. You might as well suggest we all get together and lick each others hankies when we get, cold, flu covid or AIDS so we can build our immunity.

Just keep washing your hands please. And throw hankies and tissues in the bin after using them.

[Saracen999]

I'm still practising what I think is the single most effective method of preventing myself from getting an infection, or passing one on, though arguably also the most unpleasant .... I very rarely go out, and almost never without a really good reason. When I do, I try to stay well away from everybody else, i.e. house to car, car to deserted place for a walk, back to car and back indoors. I rarely see anybody I'm not married to other than at a distance, and have effectively zero social life that isn't virtual.

I agree with the broad thrust of ciber's letter. My only point is my hankies last a LOT longer than the 9 years quoted. Some, 40 years or more. How? By buying good ones in the first place, not the cheap flimsy rubbish generally on sale now. That said, I take the point about germ retention. Though, I nearly always wear either a fleece or jumper, and sneezing into my elbow wearing those is not great either. Neither does sneezing directly onto my cashmere jumpers. They're one of my very few clothing indulgences, and that's a non-starter for me. Tbe other, if off-topic, I heartliy recommend for anyone that either has feet problems or spends a lot of time walking or standing, is the best quality and especially best fitting shoes you can afford.

[Kumagoro]

Before the pandemic (or at least I think it was before) I remember reading a research paper about hygiene practices of people in different countries and British people did not fair well. Lack of washing hands after going to the toilet being a big one and even if they do it's just rinsing with water. Also not washing hands before eating even if eating with bare hands.

You can see how bad it is in places like McDonalds, observe people eating there and you will see just how few do.

I have wondered if all this will have improved the British public's site to hygiene. Perhaps it won't show for many years until kids grow up and carry on the routines from school.

[Ciber]

I have wondered if all this will have improved the British public's hygiene.

I was really hoping it would.

[Saracen999]

I was really hoping it would.

Me too, but hoping and expecting are different. Good luck on that one.