AMD Ryzen 7000 + AM5 - Livestream

[AGTDenton]

Starts at 00:00am BST 30th

Watch AMD Chair and CEO Dr. Lisa Su present “together we advance_PCs” on August 29, 2022, announcing the new Ryzen™ 7000 Series Desktop processor lineup and the new AMD Socket AM5 platform, ushering in a new era of performance for gamers, enthusiasts, and content creators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcH_7xsYtUk

[Rob_B]

Started to watch, but then it looks like slides have already leaked so I'm off to bed

[AGTDenton]

September 27th it is

Well done AMD for broadly keeping the same pricing


Ryzen 9 7950X - $699 US
Ryzen 9 7900X - $549 US
Ryzen 7 7700X - $399 US
Ryzen 5 7600X - $299 US

VS 5000

Ryzen 9 5950X - $799 US
Ryzen 9 5900X - $549 US
Ryzen 7 5700X - $299 US (note this model launched in 2022 approx 16 months after the others)
Ryzen 5 5600X - $299 US

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Joke pricing yet again. Six cores for £307(at current exchange rates and with 20% VAT) which was not even great in 2020 because the Ryzen 5 5600X was more expensive than an overpriced Core i5 10600K. Six cores is now the new quad core. Another era of stagnation. But,but,but its faster than the previous overpriced six core.But don't worry margins will nicely go up too.

Yes its quicker than the previous six core CPU,but at a massive TDP/power increase,ie,around 61% TDP increase. AMD says the Ryzen 5 7600X will beat a Core i9 12900K. Considering a Core i5 12600K can get close enough to a Core i9 12900K in many games,this is not such a big achievement,because most likely the Core i5 13600K will do the same. It makes me wonder whether the Core i5 13600K will get close in single threaded performance but be much faster in multithreaded performance. Intel at least is giving you six cores with a bunch of smaller ones.

Plus at £307,its another case of AMD pushing older CPUs/GPUs downwards as the entry level. The rumours of Zen3 being the entry level platform seem to be true.

The only problem is Intel is going to launch Raptor Lake from top to bottom. A pure 6 core Core i5 13400F probably will probably have enough of the performance of a Ryzen 5 7600X for a much lower price and beat what AMD has in the price bracket,but just like with Alderlake AMD will take ages to launch a budget Ryzen 5 7600 non-X.

Raptorlake will also support DDR4,so platform costs are probably going to be lower. We saw what happened when Intel launched Alderlake,you quickly saw price drops.

So I think waiting another three to six months makes sense.

But the reality with huge energy prices engulfing Europe and potential power cuts,I wonder how many people will be bothering to running a gaming desktop and just get a more efficient laptop instead.

[Jonj1611]

Good vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVnJbiYOCq4

Funky looking processor

[DanceswithUnix]

Plus at £307,its another case of AMD pushing older CPUs/GPUs downwards as the entry level. The rumours of Zen3 being the entry level platform seem to be true.

That is stated policy, which does muddy the pricing somewhat:

"We do expect AM4 and AM5 to coexist for quite some time," said Su. "You should expect that, like with AM4, we'll build out the entire AM5 stack. But it will take some time to build out, and we want to make sure the cost points are right."

Note that the 3600X was released at $249 RRP which isn't much lower, so there is hope for the street price of these chips to come down once the early adopter tax is done.

The TDP is interesting though. Intel seem to be doing well on single threading again, so I assume AMD turned the heat up partly to better compete there. But then there's the whole AVX512 thing which has always been a power hog for Intel and now AMD are supporting that, so that may be a part of the new 170W TDP. I see they are only releasing 'X' versions right now, and the OEMs are going to want 65W non-X parts so hopefully they will be released fairly soon as for the cases where we care about such things.

Don't think I run anything that cares about AVX-512, so Linus T might be right: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linus-Torvalds-On-AVX-512

OFC we also need cheaper motherboard chipsets to be available before cheaper CPUs make sense.

[AGTDenton]

Hopefully this time round the pricing does drop after the 4-6 months point as availability of goods improve. Especially as trying to buy a system for the past 2 months has been the worst experience to date with prices still unstable or going out of stock...

Good vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVnJbiYOCq4

Funky looking processor

That was miles better than the livestream (which clearly was prerecorded)

[Saracen999]

Joke pricing yet again. ...

Kinda depends how you judge it.

At those prices, 7900X = 5900X - US$549.

Yet, right now, Amazon have 5900X at £380 (inc VAT), supposedly down from £509, but it's been at or about that price, within a small margin (say £20-£30 variation, between different deals, different places), for months. So, remove the VAT from the £380 and multiply by current exchange rate (* see Note .... $1.17), and we have $397. Even that ignores the added complication of addition costs to import here, like whatever rate import duty is on CPU's, and paying VAT on the import duty as well, and on shipping charges).

Anyway, my point is that there's a difference between theoretical AMD pricing (which is usually a volume price anyway) and retail price here. Currently, actual retail price is quite a bit below what the quoted $549 for a 5900X suggests it should be.

Therefore, at least speaking personally, I put no more weight on prices AMD quote now than to briefly note, according to them, 7900X is the same as 5900X and if (very big 'if', at least initially) that reflects in the actual retail price being the same for 7900X as 5900X, then it suggests 7900X is a bargain, or 5900X prices will drop, while stocks remain.

That said, my next question would be what about comparative mobo prices, and about DRAM pricing? After all, a CPU is no use to me sitting on a shelf looking pretty, it needs to be working, in a system. Which is my next concern - as with Intel 12th Gen, early release CPUs weren't exactly problem free and it took mobo revisions, driver/firmware updates etc to sort out the issues. Unless I want to let myself in for risking the same sort of thing (and I don't, personally) that suggests waiting at least a few months to let the bleeding edge adopters suffer the problems. Even if they launch in September, and the 'launch' equates to plentiful supply and no difficulty actually getting one (and mobo), it's still likely to be months before I'll be confident any issues have been found and sorted.

My conclusion is, at this point, price comparisons are really only useful as a kind of pointer, a guide, and not much more, because manufacturer pricing rarely converts directly to UK retail pricing, even allowing for VAT and exchange rates, etc. Which makes it mildly interesting, and not much more (to me). What they'll actually cost in-store? I guess we still have to wait and see.




(* Note) From the first online site I checked and yeah, rates vary and a theoretical inter-bank rate isn't identical to an actual retail rate. There's obviously wiggle room. But it's a 'ball-park'.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Has anyone confirmed what speed DDR5 RAM AMD used for the Intel test systems?

That is stated policy, which does muddy the pricing somewhat:



Note that the 3600X was released at $249 RRP which isn't much lower, so there is hope for the street price of these chips to come down once the early adopter tax is done.

The TDP is interesting though. Intel seem to be doing well on single threading again, so I assume AMD turned the heat up partly to better compete there. But then there's the whole AVX512 thing which has always been a power hog for Intel and now AMD are supporting that, so that may be a part of the new 170W TDP. I see they are only releasing 'X' versions right now, and the OEMs are going to want 65W non-X parts so hopefully they will be released fairly soon as for the cases where we care about such things.

Don't think I run anything that cares about AVX-512, so Linus T might be right: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linus-Torvalds-On-AVX-512

OFC we also need cheaper motherboard chipsets to be available before cheaper CPUs make sense.

The problem is that there was the Ryzen 5 3600 which was around $200. Now essentially the entry level CPUs are 50% more expensive,and couple that with more expensive motherboards and only DDR5 RAM its almost like they want to make the entry level CPUs look unappealing to force you up the range. We saw what happened with Alderlake - AMD took ages to respond to that. So unless the Ryzen 7 5800X3D drops under £300,essentially AMD is going to just use AM4 as the entry level.

But ironically Intel itself is following an old AMD strategy of supporting two types of RAM on their platforms.

Plus I also noticed the AMD mini-ITX motherboards are not cheap at all(only one Gigabyte X570 one seems to be on offer but it has useless socket placement). I have seen far more deals on decent Z590/B660/Z690 motherboards.

AMD also talked about you could configure TDP. The issue with that is how that works with spikes in power usage.

I compared my old Ryzen 7 3700X which was an earlier production one with my B2 stepping Ryzen 7 5700X. The latter actually consumes more power during temporary spikes.

At this point I think I will wait until Zen5. I would think with Intel increasing total Core count with their Core i5 CPUs,AMD would push the Ryzen 5 to 8 cores,but it seems six cores are the new quad cores. The Ryzen 5 7600X is the new Core i7 7700K.

I have a feeling core counts will need to increase with Zen5,especially as they seem to wanting to do what Intel is doing with Alderlake:
https://hothardware.com/news/amd-pat...zen-8000-zen-5

It wouldn't surprise me if Zen5 is comprised of Zen5 and Zen4D cores.

But then look at AMD releases? Zen/Zen+ were OK but the second generation Zen2 was when things got interesting,and Zen3 was when it was really decent performamce. RDNA1 was OK but RDNA2 was when things got interesting and RDNA3 might end up being really decent.

Same as Phenom and then Phenom II. I have a feeling the second generation is where the really interesting things will be.

Kinda depends how you judge it.

At those prices, 7900X = 5900X - US$549.

Yet, right now, Amazon have 5900X at £380 (inc VAT), supposedly down from £509, but it's been at or about that price, within a small margin (say £20-£30 variation, between different deals, different places), for months. So, remove the VAT from the £380 and multiply by current exchange rate (* see Note .... $1.17), and we have $397. Even that ignores the added complication of addition costs to import here, like whatever rate import duty is on CPU's, and paying VAT on the import duty as well, and on shipping charges).

Anyway, my point is that there's a difference between theoretical AMD pricing (which is usually a volume price anyway) and retail price here. Currently, actual retail price is quite a bit below what the quoted $549 for a 5900X suggests it should be.

Therefore, at least speaking personally, I put no more weight on prices AMD quote now than to briefly note, according to them, 7900X is the same as 5900X and if (very big 'if', at least initially) that reflects in the actual retail price being the same for 7900X as 5900X, then it suggests 7900X is a bargain, or 5900X prices will drop, while stocks remain.

That said, my next question would be what about comparative mobo prices, and about DRAM pricing? After all, a CPU is no use to me sitting on a shelf looking pretty, it needs to be working, in a system. Which is my next concern - as with Intel 12th Gen, early release CPUs weren't exactly problem free and it took mobo revisions, driver/firmware updates etc to sort out the issues. Unless I want to let myself in for risking the same sort of thing (and I don't, personally) that suggests waiting at least a few months to let the bleeding edge adopters suffer the problems. Even if they launch in September, and the 'launch' equates to plentiful supply and no difficulty actually getting one (and mobo), it's still likely to be months before I'll be confident any issues have been found and sorted.

My conclusion is, at this point, price comparisons are really only useful as a kind of pointer, a guide, and not much more, because manufacturer pricing rarely converts directly to UK retail pricing, even allowing for VAT and exchange rates, etc. Which makes it mildly interesting, and not much more (to me). What they'll actually cost in-store? I guess we still have to wait and see.




(* Note) From the first online site I checked and yeah, rates vary and a theoretical inter-bank rate isn't identical to an actual retail rate. There's obviously wiggle room. But it's a 'ball-park'.

It is for the six core Ryzen 5 7600X. Once you factor in the platform costs and that it is yet another faster six core,you might as well find the extra £100~£200 for the higher core count models. Then on top of this Intel Raptorlake will work with DDR4 too,and a Core i5 13600K will not only have six performance cores but a whole load of smaller cores,which will help with multi-tasking,MT peformance,etc.

DDR5 ATM is not very well developed IMHO - speeds need to go up,latencies need to go down and so does price.

It also means under £310 we will be having AM4 as the mainstream platform. The Core i5 13400F is rumoured to have the same configuration as the Core i5 12600K. So unless AMD drops the pricing of the Ryzen 7 5800X3D a lot,or has the Ryzen 7 5900X under £300,then I get the impression,yet again AMD will be AWOL from the entry level and the mainstream areas for a while using older products. Unlike Intel and Nvidia,they seem to be unable to do a top to down refresh with newer products anymore.

Anyway I am on my cheap Ryzen 5 5700X which cost me around £30~£35 to upgrade over my Ryzen 7 3700X,so I think I can wait a few more years.

[Saracen999]

I'm only really looking at the 5900X as that's the one I've been dithering about for ages. The same points about pricing may, or may not, apply to other variants. I hsven't compared them. I do agree about DDR5, and the same cautions may well apply to early Ryzens and supporting motherboards too. I'd also like to see how new Ryzens work with W10, or whether (like Intel and the scheduler issue) they require W11 to work optimally. If so, that kills what tentative interest I do have.

Part of me wants to get on the next ship as it sails, but the other part wants to see it complete a few journeys, just to make sure it doesn't sink, en-route. At the expense of risking mixed metaphors, maybe better the devil I know, at least for a year or so.

Realistically, I'm sticking with R5000, if I go ahead at all, but part of me still fancies the new and shiny.

[DanceswithUnix]

The problem is that there was the Ryzen 5 3600 which was around $200.

Yeah, it looks like a 7600 (non X) would be $250 if released straight away judging from the pattern on the rest of the pricing. And 5600/5600X street pricing is daft atm (and 3600 with it) when the higher end models are on a 30% or better discount.

But then we have the 5500 which handily beats the old 3600 favourite in all benchmarks and can be had on Amazon for £115 which is way less than I ever paid for a 3600. So fingers crossed when the cheap motherboards start coming out AMD give us a usable 7500 as a budget toy.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I was checking Videocardz comments on Zen4 and this post looked interesting:
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryze...ent-5964262258

I have some theories on the IPC gain, and it's from an article over at Chips n Cheese, and my own testing with a tool written by a friend who writes for them. In many workloads, Zen3 is somewhat limited by the ROB size (reorder buffer) at 256 ins. in flight. For reference, this has only seen marginal increases since Zen1 (192) Zen2 (224) and Zen3 (256). For comparison, Cypress Cove (Rocket Lake) is at 352~ (IIRC) and Golden Cove (Alder Lake) is at 512. In many workloads, AMD's performance statistic counters will report that Zen3 is recording a dispatch stall from the front-end because of ROB full, I've seen around 20-30% in some workloads, especially with SMT enabled.
What this essentially means is Zen3 is leaving IPC on the table because the core can't track any more out-of-order instructions in flight, 30% of the time is pretty significant. This theory is also further supported by the fact that AMD has gone on record as stating that ROB is transistor heavy and has "diminishing returns"; so I'd wager that they avoided a large ROB increase with Zen3 because it remained on the 7nm process, but instead waited for 5nm to buff out the ROB (maybe 512, like Golden Cove), taking advantage of the transistor density increase. Just a thought
AMD has already more or less confirmed that Zen4's decoder is still 4-ops wide with 8-ops from the uOp cache. An article over at angstromomics suggests the uOp cache is now at 6K~ entries, which further helps take advantage of a wider ROB if more instructions are able to be sent out from the cache/faster.

Articles mentioned:
https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/2...s-bottlenecks/
https://www.angstronomics.com/p/ryze...esktop-preview

It does look like Zen3 was hamstrung by its front end:
https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-zen-4-pe...nce-breakdown/

So basically Zen4 is a fixed Zen3 with more cache and a higher clockspeed. This again makes me think Zen5 might be where we see more improvements to the rest of the core.

[DanceswithUnix]

Realistically, I'm sticking with R5000, if I go ahead at all, but part of me still fancies the new and shiny.

To be fair, the new is very shiny here (not that the 5000 series is a bad shout). Most of the upgraded interfaces are useless to someone who doesn't want to upgrade the machine later, but that ddr5 memory is an instant win.

[kalniel]

No mention of the high cache variants, but they're the ones I'd be looking at if I was upgrading (don'tneedtodon'tneedtodon'tneedto.....)

[DanceswithUnix]

No mention of the high cache variants, but they're the ones I'd be looking at if I was upgrading (don'tneedtodon'tneedtodon'tneedto.....)

They are supposed to be on their way, just not yet

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

No mention of the high cache variants, but they're the ones I'd be looking at if I was upgrading (don'tneedtodon'tneedtodon'tneedto.....)

I personally think waiting for Zen5 makes more sense. Looking at the changes to Zen4,it pretty much looks like a modified Zen2/Zen3 and you need to overclock the memory controller to use 6000MHZ DDR5 which is the optimal speed. The official supported max DDR5 speed is 3600MHZ using a pair of single ranked modules:
https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-9-7950x

DDR5 also is like first generation DDR4 or DDR3 ATM. Also the Wccftech editor made this comment:
https://twitter.com/hms1193/status/1564858445546807297

92-94C using a 360mm AIO, in AIDA64.

Stock Ryzen 9 7000