HotUKDeals - Dodgy dealings

[Kumagoro]

Just saw a Reddit post about HotUKDeals and how they were banned from voting on deals because they had down voted too many deals.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UKFrugal/s/95vMcuDer1

I have been using it for a very long time and noticed many years ago that the deals were no longer as good as they use to be and no longer felt like it was user driven.

I had kind of accepted that it was more curated than before, but this level of shilling and suppression has made me think a bit more. So is it to be expected nowadays and that is the way it is or is it unacceptable?

Someone in the Reddit comments mentioned

https://moneyoff.co.uk/

I haven't looked much at it yet though.

[Output]

Honestly, I'd take it all with a pinch of salt, as you can never be sure how much they're leaving out of the situation.

Plus there is also the possibility they have convinced themselves that there is some sort of conspiracy when one doesn't actually exist.

From their description, it sounds like they were just voting cold every single time, with nothing being voted hot at all - which I could imagine could easily be seen as trolling or indicative of bot activity.

I'm not surprised some retailers make some HUKD-specific voucher codes, as HUKD likely drives a lot of traffic to many sites that it can make sense to give an incentive rewarding that, but I'm not so sure I'd go so far to call it shilling.

The HUKD users of course are still the ones left to decide whether a deal is worth it or not in their view (even if such an incentive is involved) however, as just because someone has posted a deal that they think is good, doesn't necessarily mean that it actually is good, as the poster (and also voters) may not have checked other retailers for example.

It's always best to do your own research too in order to decide for yourself if it's the best deal.

If you don't and just go for the deal, but it turns out later that there was a better deal elsewhere, it obviously just means that you decided it was a good enough deal for you to buy it based on the information you had (although I can certainly understand there would be a bit of regret at not getting the better deal).

While I'd imagine it can probably seem like it's random whether a deal gets hot or not sometimes, I suspect it can often get lost in the shuffle of a lot of other deals being posted around the same time or certain times being more ideal for it to be noticed by the most people (just like could be said about social media sites).

On the subject of reporting price mistakes to big retailers, the obvious response to that is that the large surge in orders for those items with misprices will make them easily identifiable to the retailer without any need for someone to specifically alert them to it.

As for the suggestion of banning accounts of people sharing Blue Light Card discount codes or the likes, I'd imagine that the organisation behind the Blue Light Card scheme has their own staff monitoring sites including HUKD for abuse of it (such as people posting a comment including a code from their BLC account in response to others asking in the comments section).

I will say that after seeing a number of deals mentioning getting the deal price by using "Discounts for Carers" and the implication in comments (and possibly in the deal post itself) that no checking is done to determine eligibility and as such people could get away with it (just like the suggestion in past years of people becoming "students" while not truly being such for a NUS card for its discounts), I did report one and suggest that shouldn't be encouraged in the way it seemed to come across as being.

The response I had was that their position is that it is up to those behind the schemes to verify the eligibility of those using them.

While I still feel that it would be better for it to have been modified to outright state that only people truly eligible should take advantage of it, I guess HUKD's stance is that people should already know that and that any ineligible users taking advantage are aware of the potential for any repercussion resulting from that.

HotUKDeals has grown over the years to be a site with lots of members (3 million according to the footer, who knows how many people are actually active in general though) and obviously isn't cheap to run, so there are of course going to be various decisions about the site made by the owner company/group that aren't necessarily popular with existing users, but that they feel they need to make to keep money coming in (to make a profit as well as serve the community).

Obviously we've got no idea what is actually being decided behind the scenes, but like I said I'm doubtful there's the conspiracy that some suggest, even if it does seem odd that there has been various times over the years where users have said "I posted this deal earlier and it was removed, then reposted here by this mod".

There could be a legitimate reason of such an occurrence if any truly did happen, although you can never be sure if that's the case as their search system isn't the best so deal posts may have already existed.

Although it's also possible that both saw the source of the deal at the same time and posted within seconds of each other.

As for the alternative site suggested in the comments, according to Companies House the company behind that was only set up a few months ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a link between the one who posted it and the site itself (with there being a possibility of a link with the original Reddit poster too).

That's not to say that there actually is a link, but it does seem convenient that it was discovered despite being so recently set up.

I can certainly understand that people would decide to set up alternatives because they don't believe HUKD has kept to what they believe it should be (just like many alternatives to other types of sites happen), or even just because they want to try to make their own version, but their alternatives are only going to catch on if enough people agree with them and switch to those alternatives.

But given the differences in size and resources, that can be tough to achieve.

HUKD certainly isn't perfect, but I'd hope they still have positive intentions.

[jimbouk]

HUKD certainly isn't perfect, but I'd hope they still have positive intentions.

It's still a useful site, but their intentions are to make money not to save people money. I've taken it off my 'tab' list because everyday there's just spam for the same old sites clearing out old sale stock. I can't comment on downvotes / censorship / bans as I'm not particularly active but I don't think you can post deals from site that don't give them click through commission.

I search it when I'm looking for something. Fortunately for my purposes there hasn't been a crossover between the excessive disguised company posts and what I'm looking for.

[Rob_B]

It has to be that way though with the sites growth. I do use it a lot less than before but tend to setup alerts for things I want so I don't have to wade through crappy "deals"

[jim]

I do feel like there's a degree of "shocked pikachu face" when people discover that a company is out to make revenue.

It has been incredibly obvious for a long time that HUKD has a cosy relationship with some vendors whose content appears again and again.

Personally, I still use the site because a) the users are adept at finding good deals and I have 0% faith in stores' own definition of a "deal" and b) the comments often cut through the chaff

Most of the comments on Reddit etc seem to be saying "not all the deals are actually that good", and well, yeah. Of course. But it's still better than say that Curry's newsletter in terms of signal to noise ratio. And as Rob says, if you put an alert on a specific thing, you'll generally wind up finding one at a good price.

It's inevitable, sites get bigger and bigger, then they get folded into a corporate entity that wants to see a return on the investment and some of the old principles seem to go out of the window. It doesn't make the site useless though, it just requires more attention.

I sympathise a tiny bit with the users being blocked from voting, but if all you ever do is downvote all the deals that annoy you, of course they'll stop you because it looks disingenuous. I'm struggling to see any scenario where a website is going to accept that.

[jimbouk]

I do feel like there's a degree of "shocked pikachu face" when people discover that a company is out to make revenue.

...

It's inevitable, sites get bigger and bigger, then they get folded into a corporate entity that wants to see a return on the investment and some of the old principles seem to go out of the window. It doesn't make the site useless though, it just requires more attention.

I guess the disingenuous part of it is that it's still selling itself as a 'community'. If people aren't able to be critical of the community they are in then it's just another money making site.

I doubt 99% of users would care, but wouldn't it be nice if some of these things that are meant to be 'for the consumers' like HUKD, Compare The Market, etc were actually not-for-profits, rather than just sounding like they're focussed more on saving us money whilst actually trying to make a profit. I still don't know how comparison sites get away with ordering by 'recommendation' (i.e. amount of commission) without labelling it as such.

[Output]

It has to be that way though with the sites growth. I do use it a lot less than before but tend to setup alerts for things I want so I don't have to wade through crappy "deals"

Alerts are something that I do use a bit more these days, so I don't miss something I genuinely am interested in getting. And I do the occasional search if there is an item (or type of item) I'm curious to know thoughts of other HUKD users on or the type of pricing other HUKD members may have previously come across (whether or not I actually decide to take advantage or not) if any have indeed posted about it.

Most of my time visiting over the years (and I remember when it was still a forum, with the forum layout - if I'm remembering correctly anyway) was a case of wondering what deals someone may have found that I may happen to be interested in and browsing the latest deals that hit the hot threshold as a result.

These days I'm less likely to see a deal I'm interested in that way (although that obviously doesn't mean that is always the case) and it's more likely that if I'm on the site at all (other than the occasional check to see if any alerts have triggered that I don't have set to email me) it's simply to kill time while I think of something better I want to do, but part of that could also be attributed to deciding I have enough things that I don't need or particularly want anything else for whatever reason (including possible changes in priorities).

Obviously there will always be the case of an item not reaching a cheap enough price yet for me to decide I'd be willing to buy it at, but I do think that there was a time where HUKD users would find something more likely to catch my eye.

With how costs of various things have risen over the years however, it's completely understandable that many types of deals won't be likely to reappear (there was a time when deals for HP MicroServers - with cashback making them ~£100-130 final cost if I recall correctly - were frequent for example).

I'll always appreciate the fact that many regular people dedicate time to help their fellow users find a good deal and to help educate them on things they should be aware of (but may not have previously known) in relation to items mentioned in deals.

Just like I appreciate everyone here helping to educate each other in various discussions and alerts to information or deals that we may have found that others here may have been interested in.

I'd like to think that across the internet in general, there will always be plenty of people willing to genuinely help their fellow users, regardless of platform and its profitability focus.

[AGTDenton]

Yeah I've kinda felt this way about all deal sites for a while.
For me trackers are a better way forward. I'm monitoring the things I actually want rather than impulse buying something just because it's on a deal.
I've found 9/10 you're too late for an item that you want or the code doesn't work any longer. I've pretty much stopped checking deal sites (except game codes).

Tracking means I don't subscribe to anything like Prime anymore and often get better than prime day deals without being a member and simply by being patient.

[Saracen999]

I'm totally not sure what to make of it all. One thing I'm very clear on though, is I'm extremel carefu about how much reliance I put on anything on Reddit, because it entirely depends on who is saying it.

As for deal sites .... I don't and never have used them. Not once. It's not how I work. If I want to buy something, and I mean an item of a significant value, then I'll look around to get an idea of comparative prices and the general "going rate", but where I buy is usually far more important to me than tthe actual price (within reason). I tend to stick to places I've had good experiences with and especially, when it was needed, good customer service/support. Why? Because, fundamentally, I'm both a lazy git, and pretty risk averse. I know that some percentage of the time, a product will fail and my attitude is in large part, a pre-emptive strike against the seller beggaring me about when it does happen. This is my laziness coming out - I don't want the hassle of having to fight for a solution.

Also, it's no secret that data privacy is and long has been a personal issue for me, and I see going through deal sites (or cash-back sites) as, at a bare minimum, one more way for personal data to leak out. I won't even use store "reward" cards, for that very reason - yes you get a bit back (often trivially small) but at the cost of giving away a huge amount of data about your buying habits. It's impossible to be sure to avoid all such tracking, but as close as I can get is that, except for high-value items, I still nearly always pay in cash. It's far harder to be tracked that way. A bit more expensive much of the time (though, surprisingly, not always ), but that's a margin I'll cheerfully pay to avoid data gatherers, at least, for the most part.

So, deal sites aren't my bag. I occasionally look (via a 'disosable' browser, and via a VPN) but never buy through them. So assessing how they've changed and what shennanigans they do or don't get up to? Not a clue. But I would not be shocked if they were, erm ... 'bought'. Like a fair few YT reviewers.

[jim]

I guess the disingenuous part of it is that it's still selling itself as a 'community'. If people aren't able to be critical of the community they are in then it's just another money making site.

I doubt 99% of users would care, but wouldn't it be nice if some of these things that are meant to be 'for the consumers' like HUKD, Compare The Market, etc were actually not-for-profits, rather than just sounding like they're focussed more on saving us money whilst actually trying to make a profit. I still don't know how comparison sites get away with ordering by 'recommendation' (i.e. amount of commission) without labelling it as such.

Yes that's absolutely true. You can see how hard they try to push that with their community badges, flamedeers etc. Perhaps I'm just so cynical that the inherent oxymoron of a community-led site that's dominated by brands funnelling cash to the owners does not surprise me, to the point that it I almost forget about it.

I treat most resources on the web now from the rather narrow perspective of "what can I get out of them". I know that's not a positive, and it's in part because I'm so jaded, but I've put a lot of time and effort into web-based communities in the past and still watched them crash and burn, or worse users just place no value on the effort you're putting in. So I almost expect them to be morally dubious, financially motivated and uncaring about their userbase, and if I can get some satisfaction / money / knowledge out of them whilst they're there I will. And I might contribute here and there, but I'm not going to invest lots of time and effort because I expect to get burned.

For clarity, I don't feel burned by HEXUS!

The only place I can think of that seems to have remained on its original trajectory post-acquisition is MoneySavingExpert - even if you don't like it, or some of the poor decisions they've made over recent years. They still adhere to their no advertising, affiliate links only that don't change the journalism, principles even after a big company invested ~£100m to buy it. You have to imagine that Martin Lewis had some very strong provisos in the contract he signed, and the fact he's remained as Chair after all this time indicates that it's both working and he's happy with the arrangement.

I do think that money ruins most things I enjoy - I have posted elsewhere about my disappointment with LTT. I just think I'm at the point now where I'm not that surprised. And, to be absolutely honest with you, if I ran a website like HUKD with loads of users and a great community and someone came along and offered me >£1m for it, I'd happily take the cash (assuming it was a fair value), I wouldn't be sitting there thinking "No, I'll just take a chance that my family can make it through the next 50 years and take the moral high ground".

[jimbouk]

And, to be absolutely honest with you, if I ran a website like HUKD with loads of users and a great community and someone came along and offered me >£1m for it, I'd happily take the cash (assuming it was a fair value), I wouldn't be sitting there thinking "No, I'll just take a chance that my family can make it through the next 50 years and take the moral high ground".

100%, I'd gladly retire from a good idea and not look back! Too often founders stick around and you see them trying to put a brave face of defending their corporate overlord's decisions as they watch what they've built be ringed for every penny. So unless somewhere is setup as a NFP or similar I think I'm on the same page as you as taking it as a commercial entity, treating it as a business transaction and not getting too invested. Reddit is the massive red herring for 'community' these days (sadly, for those who invested the time).

The only place I can think of that seems to have remained on its original trajectory post-acquisition is MoneySavingExpert - even if you don't like it, or some of the poor decisions they've made over recent years. They still adhere to their no advertising, affiliate links only that don't change the journalism, principles even after a big company invested ~£100m to buy it. You have to imagine that Martin Lewis had some very strong provisos in the contract he signed, and the fact he's remained as Chair after all this time indicates that it's both working and he's happy with the arrangement.

Ah, wasn't aware that this one was sticking to it's guns. Will definitely refer to them with more interest when needed.