Updated: Explosions in London

[rajagra]

Governments like terror

I'd rather be governed by Tony Blair, who may be tempted to take advantage of the current situation, than by the likes of Saddam Hussein, who was the actual source of terror when he was in power.

[oralpain]

Got to disagree. Especially with the first bit.
No matter how wronged most people feel, they would never resort to killing innocent people at random. Only retarded minds choose that course of action.
As for religion & ethnicity being unconnected, it must be admitted that such cultural influences do influence people's ability/willingness to think rationally/calmly.

It's all point of view. Most people simply refuse to even consider the logic of the other side. These people aren't killing innocents, they are killing the enemy. Atleast thats how they see it. Honestly, I'm inclined to agree with them.

Every single tax paying citizen of any country that is actively opposed to the actions of these groups/individuals is logically going to be considered an enemy. You and I both provide material support to governments who are trying to kill them. As far as I am concerned you and I are legitimate targets.

When they come to attack me, I will do everything in my meager power to defend myself and retaliate, in the most efficent and fatal means possible. I won't be complaining, I won't cry foul, and I won't bemoan my situation. I don't the need to vilify someone because they refuse to play by arbitrary rules that exist only to preserve the status quo of a system that has failed them.

I've never heard of an atheist Swiss suicide terrorist.

And I've never heard of a saudi muslim ecoterrorist. Doesn't mean they don't exist (by the commonly understood definition of those terms).

There are certain areas/groups where the factors needed to drive someone to these acts are more prevalent, but religion or ethnicity in of themselves are not that big of a factor.

I fail to see why that even invites comment. It is simply true. (Except "no one" should really be replaced with "few people".)
We would tear him a new ass if we thought he failed to take action that was clearly necessary, and it resulted in a major terrorist atrocity.

I very much agree that the statement is true. It is, unfortunatly in my opinion, true almost anywhere. I was more interested in the why. Why are people willing to give up freedoms for the (probable) illusion of safety?

I'd rather be governed by Tony Blair, who may be tempted to take advantage of the current situation, than by the likes of Saddam Hussein

Though both choices seem far less than ideal (which would be being governed by myself), I agree.

How come in early 2001 Condy Rice and and Colin Powell both said Saddam posed no threat?

...because they had no immediate plans to invade.

Out of all the American government people I prefered Powell, I think he was a voice of reason almost.

Reason doesn't get you far in a world ruled by double standards and misdirected emotion.

[Mike Fishcake]

All you need to do to make a "terrorist" is convince someone that they have been greviously wronged by some group and that they have nothing to lose. Everything else (religion, ethnicity) is just filler/pretense. Also, nothing unites people like a shared hate.

Nail. Head.

Terrorist / hate groups from everyone like AQ, IRA, KKK, Combat 18, prey on a hate that they use propaganda to justify.

As, for "political correctness", it's just a pile of euphemisms engineered to decieve.

I think I agree with you

One thing I wanted to ask some of you brits... what's your take on what Blair said in the quote below quote?

"Were there to be a serious terrorist act in this country and afterwards it was thought that we had not taken the measures necessary, believe me, no one would be talking about civil liberties; they would be talking about why we had not done more to protect the security of this country" -Tony Blair, 23 February 2005

I don't think we should be talking about one or the other, we should be talking about both, because they're just as important as each other.

Some people think that because others don't immediately identify an enemy, that they're for terrorism. That's a stupid and dangerous theory

[menthel]

Well, that was interesting. There was some horrific stuff through the hospital on thursday. Not really much fun at all. However the organisation and response of the staff was great!

[MD]

There is one thing that is still bothering me, and its the bus, one explosion on a bus does not make sense.

But then think about it, the people on the bus had been turned around from Euston as the station was too crowded, so then it becomes kind of clear in my eyes, the bus was not the target, but the underground was the intended location for the bomb on the bus, therfore, it would begin to make me beleive that the devices used were carried, not left, after all, if they were left then why would it have caused the bus to explode so soon after setting off when no one had the chance to get off.

Fortunately everyone i know is safe, and the colleagues who work out of london are safe, including the drvier three vehicles behind the exploded bus.

Forgive me, Im just thinking out loud, but this bus thing really does not make any sense at all.

m'

[menthel]

I think that they were left, on timers. The bus bomb was intended for the tube network, but because of diversions, never got there and probably took the would be, non suicide bomber with it.

[nichomach]

Menthel, I think you might have got it exactly right.

[MD]

Thats what I meant, it was intended for the tube, I suppose the timer thoery is supported by what happened...

m@

[Phil_2k5]

This may sound stupid and disrespectful,But atleast it was only a minor Attack compared to 9/11-madrid and i believe that it was only minor because we we're well organized equaling we're on the winning side of this battle

[beanbandit]

This may sound stupid and disrespectful,But atleast it was only a minor Attack compared to 9/11-madrid and i believe that it was only minor because we we're well organized equaling we're on the winning side of this battle

Don't agree with that. It was only "minor" because 2 of the the train bombs detonated in wider diameter tunnels. If they had gone off 2 min later (or so) the death toll could easliy have reached the 150 mark. Evidence from the Kings Cross train tells us that we were "lucky", Current death toll at KC is 21 with an estimated 20 bodys trapped in the wreckage. And this was a single train tunnel.

[Mike Fishcake]

Just got a message off a friend saying she just got evacuated from Birmingham:

"the amount of police and ambulances and helicopters and stuff. theyve stopped everything ever going in, evacuated everything in a mile radius. its f***ing mental"

[Mike Fishcake]

Probably just overly paranoid events....

It can't be much really, considering it happened about 7:30 apparently

[5cupa]

Thats what I meant, it was intended for the tube, I suppose the timer theory is supported by what happened...

m@

I think the bus one was done on purpose as a symbol and photo for the media.

if you are a terrorist and want as much publicity as possible then u would need at least one overground 'explosion' to have a visual impact to send round the world and why not a good old London red bus, certainly paints a picture to strike fear into commuter and tourist


just a theory

[Norky]

Don't know if anyone read the front page of the Guardian today. It was an account by one of the rescuers trying to work on the train in the Kings Cross tunnel.

The tunnel isn't much bigger than the carriage itself, and its so far underground that they're having real problems. He was describing how there were people with no limbs left, screaming for help and the carriage was dripping with blood. They had to crawl through mangled bodies and assorted body parts to reach survivors because the tunnel was blocked.

My dad was headed for the BMA building when the bus went up, he was a few minutes away, otherwise he would have been one of the people responding.

[Stoo]

There have been a rash of bomb scares all over the place, of which most of them I'm sure are hoaxes, and to my mind those hoaxers need the book, and the bookshelf throwing at them.. idiots.

[Mike Fishcake]

There have been a rash of bomb scares all over the place, of which most of them I'm sure are hoaxes, and to my mind those hoaxers need the book, and the bookshelf throwing at them.. idiots.

Yep - it's spreading fear and panic. All it takes is for one stupid person out of millions to make a hoax call and it all kicks off.