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Thread: Expanding a Hackers Interests

  1. #1
    Senior Members' Member Matt1eD's Avatar
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    Expanding a Hackers Interests

    A friend in our village emailed me today.

    Quote Originally Posted by the email
    Once a week I do an hour's mentoring down in XXXXXXXX with various
    kids of varying talents but a uniform inability to make use of them.
    One of the kids, a nice guy called XXXXXXXXX aged about 13, is deeply into
    computer and IT, or hacking to be precise. He says that he doesn't
    steal anything or alter stuff, but he likes the challenge of getting
    into systems. Suppose you were in my position, and you wanted to steer
    him towards a more worthwhile, or legal, way of using his talents in
    this field, what would be a good direction to push him, or an
    interesting diversion for him once he's bumping along the byways of the
    Internet? If you have any ideas, I would be grateful if you could let
    me know.
    I have a couple of thoughts, but what would you say? I suppose one needs to find out what interests him about hacking and then work from there.

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    Computer Security or networking security. That's the direction my oldest brother went to - well worth it imo, his skills will be useful for that type of career too. He's quite sucessful in his career too.

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    Ғо ѕніzzLє му піzzLє chicken's Avatar
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    Yeah, that or programming, depending on the kind of hacker he is. Only thing with programming is you'll probably need to feed him a few ideas to make before he takes to it over hacking.
    1.21 GIGAWATTS!!!!!

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    Senior Members' Member Matt1eD's Avatar
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    I was thinking programming. He probably has a mind suitable to use Linux and that's something to put on ones CV. Then I was thinking well programming will give him the challenges he needs and I presume he has a pretty indepth knowledge of network protocols therefore could move into development of secure client server apps. Incorporating both sides of his interest.

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    Theoretical Element Spud1's Avatar
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    Push him into legal hacking and programming (the two are interlinked), the thing here is to make sure he doesn't turn into a cracker (malicous hacker). If he has the skills to find and exploit loopholes/bugs in software that can gain him access to systems then he potentially has a good opportunity in IT security. This is assuming that he is actually doing it himself and not just using off-the-shelf tools such as sub7 and the like (ie not a script kiddie )

    As an example of what I mean, look at Kevin Mitnick today. Ex-cracker, now a hacker who attempts to find holes in companies IT security systems and gets paid for it...now ok he may have had a head start due to all the publicity, but the fact is that companies will employ you to work on that sort of thing - using a theif to catch a theif so to speak. It is something I would have loved to do if I had the skills (which I don't unfortunately) and if the stories are to believed there is alot of money in it, worth looking in to at the very least.

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    Senior Members' Member Matt1eD's Avatar
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    I was thinking along those lines Spud1 but getting into that may prove hard would it not? How will he expand into it? The finding exploits in code part was what I was thinking - get coding and then if doing it for Windows & if using .NET (although I'm not sure how hacker orientated I would rate that!) then read stuff like Howard & LeBlancs Writing Secure Code 2 (one of my Bibles) and Threat Modeling (Swiderski & Synder). Both MSPress stuff. Then when he's got really good at that that's another knowledge base of secure development.

    Anywho, I'll pass all these along and try to find out a bit more

    cheers

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    Theoretical Element Spud1's Avatar
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    Getting in to it I think means either getting a job with a company that already does that kind of work - or starting yourself and emailing companies offering your services (initally for free) to try and get a reputation..or there's the imminently more risky approach of breaking into a system, then telling the company how you did it and how to fix it...i suspect this is totally illegal though, even if it could be a good way to land work (if you choose an enlightened company)

    Your right it would be difficult, albeit an interesting career path

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    <2p>

    Personally, I would like to see proof of these hacking skills. I am not saying it is impossible for someone of thirteen to know how to do this, especially as a load of info is freely available on the web of course, but tbh, finding directory browsing enabled pages through google or cross site scripting is not "hacking"(edit: yes I know technically it *is* but only if you come up with a use for it yourself!), and can be done with no knowledge other than CRTL-C CRTL-V.

    If it's true however, nobody will employ them without education. GCSE's should include Maths, English and 2 foriegn langs (personally, I would say certainly spanish at least and possibly german). A levels should include compsci and maths.

    I have been a developer for 12 years now, for 8 an architect and 6 a security specialist (yes a white hat hacker) and writing code gets a little dull after a while. I would recommend info sec definatley as it is customer facing, is varied and is better paid :-)

    </2p>

    Good luck
    Last edited by herbert_goon; 25-01-2006 at 01:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1
    then telling the company how you did it and how to fix it...i suspect this is totally illegal though
    Yes very. See the Computer Misuse Act and also how vigorously it is applied.


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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Cracking! Making his own rootkits and the like, either make a great security person, or a terrific virus writer.

    www.0bytes.net/startsizer/
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Senior Members' Member Matt1eD's Avatar
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    Use of free MS software and gaining experience using it is another thing to have. If he were to learn the OS trials available inside out that would be pretty good SysAdmin knowledge. In terms of SysAdmin I'd also expect knowledge of in depth registry use & scripting. However he certainly has time. Just thought really.

    herbert: That is somewhat what I'd thought in terms of how hacker he is - i.e. If he just cracks WEP occasionaly or is seriously knowledgable. I'm not really sure how school orientated/motivated he is to do the work. We'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt1eD
    Use of free MS software and gaining experience using it is another thing to have.
    Agreed! I don't think you can beat the Visual Studio Architect package (I paid &#163;35) comes with 2003, Exchange SQL, Commerce Server etc etc

    And to get back on topic - what could you do to keep a 13 year old who likes computers on the straight and narrow? Overclocking/PC Building :-)

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    Ғо ѕніzzLє му піzzLє chicken's Avatar
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    MS were doing a load of the the Visual Studio apps free for personal use for a year a while ago... I don't think that's over yet is it? Might be worth a look?

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    Senior Members' Member Matt1eD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicken
    MS were doing a load of the the Visual Studio apps free for personal use for a year a while ago... I don't think that's over yet is it? Might be worth a look?
    Indeedy 60 day VS03 Pro is still available on DVD or VS05 Express is free for a years use (imo a somehwat limited version - but OK to play on I spose).

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