Has anyone watched this? i think hes right, i dont see the violence ending at all! and personally i think what israel is doing is land grab.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/vi...60806,00.html#
Has anyone watched this? i think hes right, i dont see the violence ending at all! and personally i think what israel is doing is land grab.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/vi...60806,00.html#
I would tend to agree, the old saying goes violence begets more violence, and i can't see the problems in Israel and Lebanon ending in the short term. Although i would be shocked if Israel got away with a land grab as you put it. I would hope the international community would not let them do that.
No-one in their right mind pays a blind bit of notice to that self-serving little opportunist.
And 'land-grab'? Uh, no. This is a war with Iran.
Land grab yes. Israel can do pretty much what it wants against a muslim country, since it has american backing; for the record Lebanon is not Iran and there is no war with Iran that I am aware of.
Ok, get back to me when you've worked out who started Hezbollah and which country has a larger Hezbollah diplomatic legation than Lebanon has. This is a war with an Iranian proxy, without Iran's say-so Hezbollah would never have dared stirring up things they way they did. Hezbollah is just a puppet of the mullahs in Tehran.
Yes, Israel tried occupying Lebanon before to damage the PLO. It failed, and they'd be fools to try it again. Personally, I think there are better tactical options for them right now, but 'land-grab' is just asinine propaganda.
I can't even be bothered to watch more than a minute of that ****er. According to him, Hezbollah are justified in shooting Katyushas into Haifa, thereby killing and injuring Israeli civilians. Guess what mate- if Hezbollah had left it alone there wouldn't have been any trouble. You can argue all you like about whether the Israeli response was proportionate- I personally say it wasn't- but Israel didn't start it.
Galloway is, not to put too fine a point on it, a rabid anti-semite who as far as I can see would like nothing more than to see the destruction of the state of Israel. Like the scummy little toerags co-opting the 2003 anti-iraq-war marches with their 'support the intifada' banners, he is worthy of nothing but pity and contempt.
i've read somewhere israel wants to occupy some parts of sountern lebannon becuase of water supplies or something, i cant exactly remember what, but i know for sure this isnt just about getting rid of hezbollah, surely israel has other agendas.
Agreed completely; Israel has a perfect right to defend itself against the rocket attacks by Hezbollah. That said, what they're currently doing has gone way, way, beyond any justifiable notion of self-defence. I could buy an incursion into Southern Lebanon to clear out the rocket launch sites, with ground troops and air attacks if necessary, but Israel have been bombing the length and breadth of Lebanon, blowing up power stations, water works, civilian targets nowhere NEAR where Hezbollah have been launching from.Originally Posted by Rave
That said, anyone arguing that Iran "started" Hezbollah is rather overlooking the fact that they started in response to Israeli occupation of Lebanon, an occupation which lasted 18 years and cost the lives of 19,000 Lebanese. Iran IS their biggest backer, and provides matériel and training as well as financial support, but Hezbollah's personnel are Lebanese, and they're volunteers. To that extent, one can argue that they are a proxy for Iran in the same sense that Israel are for the US.
well if you listen to what the guy is saying you would probably want to rethink what you just said - you claim to be a man of human right and of understanding and free speech but you havnt even bothered to listen to the interview before commenting on it in the most perverse of ways and for what? just because the BBC tells you that he has had unconfirmed dodgy dealings in the past with the oil for food program or because he made an attempt to connect with the younger generation and failed?Originally Posted by Rave
you should at least listen to what the guy has to say before insulting him with such derogatory terms?
israel has been invading and occupying parts of lebanon for 25 years, hizbollah was set up to take israel out of their land...totally justifyable. so what if hizbollah are injuring israeli civilians - israel has invaded their land numourus times, KILLED lebanese civilians and taken hundreds of lebanese hostage
....the IDF is also murdering hundreds of lebanese civilians and more importantly children as the days go by with their missiles and bombs (there is talk and footage to support the idea that they have been using MOABs, which is more reason to say that their response to just one column of armour destruction is totally unreasonable) have you been looking at ANY of the lebanese news reports and pictures of beirut and burning corpses or just the western anti-iran side of the story?
you cant say that if hizbollah had left it alone there would not be any trouble because you would still have the IDF invading lebanon looking for its 2 soldiers and in the process seeing the levelling and take over of much of southern lebanon (i would expect)
as galloway says, please extend your memory further than 5 weeks - Israel DID start it, years ago - read some books or something on the history of israel please rave before posting like you did again...normally i think you have things straight but i really cant understand you on this one
edit: http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle13991.htm, please rethink your position rave
Last edited by Pirate Pete; 09-08-2006 at 06:27 PM.
I watched the Galloway interview when it was on telly and he just confirmed my view on him that he is an ignorant rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish that twists everything you say he doesn't agree with in to some how offending you. I expected him to condemn Israel but I didn't expect him to actually support Hizbollah (an organization that has a gun for it's flag) he's gone way too far this time. Most of his arguments are just based on either lies of facts taken out of context. E.g. He said that it was soldiers that Hizbollah killed that morning, yet they were on a kibbutz, it could have been anyone but they just happened to be reserves who weren't sent in yet. A Ketyusha rocket has very poor aim, there's no way they could have aimed at the soldiers.
His argument about the Shebaa farms is rubbish, they have nothing to do with Lebanon, they were taken from Syria in the 6 day war and Lebanon's claims to the land are extremely weak.
The reason Israel occupied a tiny bit of Lebanon was because around 1978 Yasser Arafat decided to use South Lebanon, illegally, to build up an army to fight Israel. South Lebanon has been a haven for terrorists simply due to it's geographical position an terrain for a very long time due to Syria's occupation of Lebanon and support of the groups that used it. The buffer zone was a security measure to reduce the threat, and it did.
The whole purpouse of 1559 was to give the Lebanese government full sovereignty of Lebanon so in accordance with the UN Israel got out of Lebanon, as did Syria who was occupying even larger parts of Lebanon when the UN asked them to leave they did. Except Iran/Syria's proxy army (Hizbollah) didn't and used the last 6 years to stockpile and hide tens of thousands of rockets, organize tunnels and caves for "guerilla warfare", and carry out sporadic attacks on Israel untill Israel decided a few weeks ago that enough was enough after they crossed the border capture of 2 soldiers and killing of 8, a few tanks started moving and Hizbollah started firing 100s of rockets at civillian areas.
It's Hizbollah that has been illegally occupying Lebanon the last six years, read this article and you'll see what I'm on about . http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...2-2281184.html
Most of the people put in prison, not made hostages there's a very big difference, were Palestinian militias not Lebanese and are in there for a reason. They aren't 1000s and they aren't in "dungeons", even the red cross said that the standard of Israeli prisons was high.
Last edited by krazy_olie; 08-08-2006 at 04:35 PM.
You sir are a moron of the highest calibre! Let me educate you if you are capable of being educated which I doubt.Originally Posted by Pirate Pete
Who do you think it was that abducted two Israeli soldiers from Israeli soil? Papa Smurf? No it was Hizbollah.
Where there any Israeli forces in Lebannon before this attack? No.
Who ordered this incursion? It was Iran.
Why did Iran do this? To take the focus of the G8 summit away from Iran's nuclear programme.
Hizbollah does not do anything without Irans say so - it is wholly funded, organised, trained and supplied by Iran with the aid of Syria. Where do you think all those rockets come from? These rockets which are fired indiscriminately at Israeli cities. Which incidentally started at the same time as the abduction BEFORE Israeli reprisals.
Are you telling me that a soveriegn country has to do nothing and sit back and take it while it's people are indiscriminately bombarded with missiles from a neighbouring country which allows a proxy paramilitary terrorist force to locate it's missile launch sites within it's borders?
Every country has a right to defend itself. If the Lebannese governement and the UN allow a terrorist network to operate freely within it's borders and if that government is democratically elected then the people of Lebannon are directly responsible for what happens inside their own country and cannot expect anything less.
The fireing of rockets and the border incursion by Hizbollah into Israel is an act of war and should be seen as such. If Lebannon's population allow a proxy militia to use civilian areas to launch weapons then they cannot cry about civilians being killed. If Israel carried out an all out war on Lebannon then we would see deaths in their tens of thousands not the few hundred we have seen so far.
Oh and George Galloway is a bloke who used to like to go to Iraq and have a laugh with Saddam Hussien and his sons. Ask the Kurds in northern Iraq what a thoroughly nice group of blokes these three were. Galloway is a self publicist, anti-semite who has had ties with some of the nastiest people around and alledgedly profitted from them. To even court his publicity is show yourself to be an idiot.
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well, iranu i REALLY cant be bothered to get into a large scale forum arguement about this - its not really going to change the course of the conflict either way
so well done you have defeated me by default - i just wanted to make a point about what rave said
what i will say however is this:
GG has met and talked with saddam twice, exactly the same number of times as donald rumsfeld met him.
George met him to try and avoid the war in iraq by convincing saddam to let the UN and Blix back into the country - good old don met him to sell him guns and missiles.
i would by no means say that george's meeting had anything to do with laughter, and if i remember what george said in his book about the meeting correctly there were neither of saddams sons present at either meeting
when you say there were no israeli forces in lebanon before the attack you are incorrect to an extent. up until 2000 from the early 80s (if i have my history of the region correct) there were israeli forces occupying parts of lebanon - there were no troops in occupation immediatly before the attacks but that does not negate the fact that israel still held hundreds of lebanese prisoners illegally in israeli prisons
if israel thinks it has the right to take back its two prisoners why does hizbollah not have a right to try and get back its prisoners who were taken on lebanese soil?
Last edited by Pirate Pete; 09-08-2006 at 06:19 PM.
Good god mate that was well put.Originally Posted by Rave
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You finished with a question, either you are ducking out of the debate or you are furthering it with questions.Originally Posted by Pirate Pete
Do you believe that an unelected foreign funded organisation has the same rights as a democratically elected government? Personally I say no. Lebanon has a government that is not Hezbollah. Imprisonment by the Israeli government does not compare to kidnapping.
Regardless of his politics, Galloway is a pretty effective self-publicist. Whether that is a good or bad thing for a politician I’ll leave for thought.
Delving into Galloway’s past you forget to mention his disingenuous character, for example, voting to reduce the homosexual age of consent to 16 then later voting against reducing it to 18 and then going back to supporting gay rights, his supposed "anti imperialist" stance while at the same time believing the Soviet Union was a great place and he talks about wealth re-distribution but flies (allegedly first class) to the middle east at the expense of the Mariam Appeal he founded.
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i thought most of the stuff he said made a lot of sense, but hey thats my views,
kids are still bieng slaughtered every day that is sad,
one things for sure the ones that will survive will have a chip on there shoulders and maybee when they are older they will become martyrs for their cause, all this is doing is producing the next gerneration of suicide bombers etc........
violence breeds violence
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