Boris Johnson is someone I disagree with

Did anybody watch Question Time yesterday evening?


One of the topics of debate was about incitement to racial hatred/violence were there was some discussion from the panelists regarding what happend with Nick Griffin. Out of the blue Boris yelled out 'religious texts contain incitement to religious/racial hatred'. Everyone stopped and he was asked where and which religious texts contain such provocation. He started stuttering as he obviously didnt have a clue how to back up his statement. So instead when he was asked again and again he replied something like ' Slay the nonbelievers wherever they maybe' and when asked where he got that from, he still stuttering said the Qu'ran.


I have to say to those who watched the programme, this statement is absolutely false and without foundation. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it suggest to carry out such actions and Boris should apologise and retract what he said.

I have heard people use that arguement before against Islam, but if you look at the section of where he has taken that from he has totaly twisted what it
says. I just felt that as a muslim I have to speak out about what he said. Its not about being 'PC' becuase his statement is what causes tensions in the muslim community. I mean what kind of thing is that to say on TV?

I have emailed him and asked him to either backup his statement or apologise. If I had stayed quiet then it would make it seem as though he was telling the truth, but then now that I speak out, im going to be seen as one of those muslims who moans and complains all the time!

I just dont want the people that I live with, white, brown, black, jew, christian, athiest to have a wrong impression of my religion from someone who should know better.

And I know I shouldnt realy call him a **** but cant help it.

true786

i totally agree mate, however i dont really agree with your use of language...its supposed to be a family forum mate :) i suggest edit it, or the mods will :)

you do raise a good point tho :mrgreen:

How do i edit the title? Sorry if I offended anyone with my use of language

you'll need to ask a mod to edit the title:)

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Originally Posted by true786

How do i edit the title? Sorry if I offended anyone with my use of language

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yeh get a mod to do it mate

dont get me wrong im not offended at all - just dont want you getting in trouble from the mods :)

Title edited.

Why should you demand an apology ? He's entitled to his opinion as much as you are entitled to yours.

who was demanding an apology?

Ok you miss understood my point, he referred to something that is allegedly stated in the Qu'ran, im not bothered about his opinion but he stated something as a fact which is not true. That is my point.

To be honest I dont care what he thinks, he's entitled to his opinion, I dont care what Nick Griffin thinks, hes entitled to his opinion, but when false accusations are made thats different.

If he cant back up his fact or statement then why shouldnt he apologise? Or atleast retract what he said?

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Originally Posted by Steve B

who was demanding an apology?

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agreed, i dont think an apology was in order. it was just a friendly tip off

unless the phrase "i dont really agree" could be construed as having the implication, which i think it could.

however, this is off topic, and does not detract from the fact that boris johnson is an eejit!

Religious literature doesn't have any racial implications. The people who follow the religion do, unfortunately.

Why demand an apology? Why are you offended by things like this? Do you really care that much about what people think/say about you? You should be content with who/what you are no matter what anyone says. If you trawl through life worrying about things like that then you're causing yourself more stress than necessary. I used to study religion a lot, and it fascinates me greatly, but I don't believe in God. I sway more to agnosticism - but the people who tell me I'm wrong can have that opinion irrespective of what I am/believe.

This is exactly the kind of behaviour which leads to horrible things happening i.e. "someone said something bad about my religion, and now I'm going to take action".

My advice; just chill.

:)

haha just read the second half of the OP, sorry Moby, i thought u were referring to johnny there when you spoke about demanding an apology!
woops :mrgreen:

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I have emailed him and asked him to either backup his statement or apologise

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looks like a demand to me :)

As I personally understand it , the Qu'ran , like many other ancient texts is widely open to interpretation.

Put a song lyric into babel fish , translate it through a couple of languages then back into english again and you'll see my point.

I'm sure there are versions of the Bible that less than savoury messages in them.

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Originally Posted by Moby-Dick

looks like a demand to me :)

As I personally understand it , the Qu'ran , like many other ancient texts is widely open to interpretation.

Put a song lyric into babel fish , translate it through a couple of languages then back into english again and you'll see my point.

I'm sure there are versions of the Bible that less than savoury messages in them.

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ahhh ok - i misunderstood you, i thought you meant I demanded the apology for the use of language :lol:

No, I dont go through my life worrying about what people think, im happy enough the way I am and with what I believe in. People can interpretate things what ever way they wish but when someone who is in a position of power or authority makes statements like he did then some people could assume what he is saying is correct. He didnt air his opinion, he was stating that what he said is in the Qu'ran, I am simply stating that it is not.

Anyways It was just something that I wanted to get off my chest, and your opinions and thoughts are appreciated

Yes, but on the other hand people of a particular religion will come out with false statements, but because they're a part of that religion people will let it pass. It's like saying Christians do everything for completely selfless reasons, it's obviously an inaccurate statement, but if a Christian says so, then it is true.

I don't think you can demand an apology from this person just because he said something which isn't true. The majority of religious people interpret their literature in a multitude of different ways, thus there is no truth. Should we persecute all of them too?

Im not asking for persecution. He QUOTED something which he said was from the Qu'ran. If he was giving his opinion or his interpretation then i wouldnt careless but he was quoting something that wasnt true. Their is a difference. At the time as you may have guesses I was slightly peeved and so I wrote him the email. I responded in a diplomatic way through peacefull means. He probably wont apologise, he may not even read my email, if your veiw is that he shouldnt need to apologise then thats fair kop.

well... its six of one and half a dozen of the other, boris johnson can be a fool, but throughout history people have used religion to their own ends, i didnt see the show, boris should have researched more thoroughly before he said something about the matter but from the sounds of it, he got annoyed about something and came out with a quip, we have all done it, said something we didnt mean to, or it comes out some way other than intended, im sure lots of ppl have heard the quote before, i know i have, i dont know where i heard it, most likely from the rantings of a fanatic, and under pressure boris said it was from the qu'ran.

:O_o1: what a weird thread, is everybody actually arguing about the same thing?

Meh I agree with the OP that if Boris has gone on national TV and stated incorrect and potentially damaging "facts" about their holy book then he should apologise. It's not like he's asking him to be shot or something, he did something wrong, at least he could say sorry. To put it in human terms, to state something like that about a person would be slander. Mind you so is saying "Boris Johnson is a *****" :P

tulip? :crazy:

Just found this :

4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

If this citation is true then there is nothing to apologize about.

ok here

4.88 states:
Then what is the matter with you that you are divided into two parties about the hypocrites? Allâh has cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they have earned. Do you want to guide him whom Allâh has made to go astray? And he whom Allâh has made to go astray, you will never find for him any way (of guidance).

4.89 states:

They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliyâ' (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allâh (to Muhammad SAW). But if they turn back (from Islâm), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliyâ' (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them.

and the next quote which you 'forgot' to add suprise suprise states:

4.90:

Except those who join a group, between you and whom there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with their breasts restraining from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. Had Allâh willed, indeed He would have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they withdraw from you, and fight NOT against you, and offer you peace, then Allâh has opened NO way for you against them.


Seems pretty clear to me, it says from my interpretation, only fight those who fight against you first, and if no one fights you then be peacefull, Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.

It is interesting how you only managed to throw in one verse from the quran and not the next adjoining sentence.

I congratulate you on your detective work.

Quoting without context is hardly a new event, nor is misinterpreting something, nor is people saying things which could be offensive to other people, nor is Boris just saying stuff.

Boris is Boris.

People offend other people all the time, this isn't any different.

Some Bible quotes for you:

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)
Then Moses said, 'Anyone who will not listen to that Prophet will be cut off from God's people and utterly destroyed.' (Acts 3:23)
[referring to homosexuals]Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death (Romans 1:32)

I posted what I've found and not pretending to be a 'detective' or anything of that sort. If you wish, we could discuss it a bit further.

So, let's translate 4.89 to plain language:
Do not befriend with those who don't like Islam, unless they are ready to accept it. But if they won't then kill'em.

Then 4.90:
If these (from 4.89) want to submit to you or make peace with you then you can't kill'em.

Pretty similar to those placards 'behead those who insult Islam'. IMHO.

Anyway, as someone mentioned it here, everyone is entitled to its opinion. One can believe in whatever he wants to. I am sure you can find things like that in any ancient religious book, be it Old or New Testament, or Quran for this matter. So why to be offended? It is like someone demanding an apology because someone else uncovered that his grand-grand-grand....uncle was a pirate in 16th century.

To put it frankly, I have very negative impression about everything Islamic, especially during last couple of years, but this is my opinion and I am entitled to it. You also entitled to dislike Russian Orthodox church if you wish, that is fine with me and I won't demand an apology.

Hopefully it clarifies things :)

'But if you wish to discuss it (you might want to talk to your mullah first to get permission to discuss Quran with Russian Orthodox '

And why would I need to ask my mullah? What a silly thing to say, and also there was no talk of burning anything I was talking in a diplomatic way no need for the cheap shot.

Yes you are entitled to your own opinions just as I am I never disputed that

OK, sorry, it was an overstatement.
I didn't want to insult you personally. Not sure if I can remove it but I'll try.
UPD. It worked :)

Kommunist,

Im sorry also, I did give you a cheap shot, im not on here to make enemies, im here to make friends, i dont care wether your Russian or a jew, lifes too short, something just annoyed me and I thought I would share my veiw with my fellow hexun's hope you have a great weekend

Aj

Have a great weekend too! :)

Have a great weekend all, and none of you kill any apostates or unbelievers now, you hear? Because in fact every major religion does mandate that (as I'm sure fuddam will jump in now to try and contradict on the basis that leviticus isn't really in the bible or something) :mrgreen:

Of course most religious believers don't go round killing people, but technically all of them should - it's curious how they are willing to discard whole swathes of scripture on the one hand but then believe other passages about walking on water or ascending physically to heaven on horseback as the literal truth...

I do agree that Boris Johnson is a muppet though, like all Tories :)

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Originally Posted by JPreston

it's curious how they are willing to discard whole swathes of scripture on the one hand but then believe other passages about walking on water or ascending physically to heaven on horseback as the literal truth...

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The Bible says that Pi is 3.0 (1 Kings 7:23), and frankly I'm shocked that there aren't demonstrations outside heretical maths classes across the nation.

I think we all know that the religious scripture was written by men. My main love for religion is the amount of people who will follow their literature yet either a) have no clue of whom wrote that literature or b) have no clue where that literature came from.

Do you believe everything you read? Why should you believe a piece which was written thousands of years ago?

Also, I can voucher that none of you have any seen any transliterations. My ex-girlfriend (an Oxford student) showed me what happens to transliterated words. I do believe hebrew/arabic has four words for "love". Yes, "love" has never been one word, this only became so in more recent languages. So when those scriptures say "love thy neighbour" et cetera then it's completely out of context from the original meaning. Thus translated religious literature is pretty much void, that's only a small example. I've seen entire paragraphs completely back-to-front.

And that's a fact.

Hell, you need to have studied at Oxbridge to work that one out these days? :)

P.S. All religion is nonsense, all religious persons are nonsensical.