Ebay dispute comments?

[atmadden]

I have recently sold this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...9671&rd=1&rd=1

The buyer has opened a dispute and has made these comments
I bought a laptop which was descibed as complete apart from hard drive missing. I received the laptop but the power supply was missing, so I can't even use it. A power supply is part of any laptop and something you don't have to buy in addittion to the laptop.If you go in to any shop the laptop and the power suply are sold together not seperately. If a laptop is listed as complete apart from no harddrive then anyone would assume you receive the laptop, which includes the vital power supply but no hard drive. If you had descibed the laptop correctly I would'nt have bid anywhere near £72.

I have contested this as i didnt state it included a power supply and there isn't one in the picture. It is also sold as spares/repair. I have located a power supply now but would appreciate comments on this and anyones experiences with paypal disputes. it has got to the stage where someone at paypal is going to review the case.


Thanks

[Clunk]

"Laptop is complete apart from no harddrive but caddy is present."

Thats where you will loose the dispute I think.

[MurphmanL]

You'd assume items are inclusive apart from that which you specifically state are missing, well that's what I'd think anyway.
Ive learned the hard way about describing stuff on ebay and it was with a laptop as it goes...
Sold a Toshiba Pentium I laptop for £60 buy it now, it was 233mhz with MMX technology. Problem is I listed it as a Pentium 2 assuming it was with MMX since my old desktop was the same but a P2... course I didnt check the BIOS or logo and not remembering Pentium 1's existed up to 233mhz, a few days later i recieved a msg back asking for a £15 rebate -since it was indeed a Pentium 1 and he photo'd the BIOS where it stated Processor Intel Pentium I @233mhz mmx enabled.
Clearly realising I didnt have a leg to stand on, I reluctantly refunded the money and took it as a harsh lesson learned. I am now very careful and check my descriptions 3 or 4 times over before listing an item!

[unreal]

Agreed, you listed it as complete and since it is fairly sparse with details I would assume it would come with what's necessary too.

[atmadden]

What i can't understand tho is that they say its a vital part and they can't use it without it. Its broken and is sold as so. Do you think I will lose the dispute then? I actually meant the physical laptop was complete. Can't believe 1 word has caused so many problems!

[Kumagoro]

So the laptop doesn't work hmm. I would have said if it was
working then definitely yes the Power supply is a part of the
package. As its not then its not so clear cut I guess.

If you have found the Power supply then why not send it if he
agrees to it and chalk it up to experience and be more detailed next time.

You have said sold as seen and in the picture there is clearly no Power supply, so you could argue on that point.

[MurphmanL]

Thing is atm, as much as id like you to win the dispute mate, the customer is always right
Naa , on a serious note mate take a look around at other "spares and repairs" auctions,they usually only list whats missing or the opposite, whats included as minimum.
Most often that not this could be presented in like a table, often the preferred format by powersellers.

Think of it from his point of view... he could have a spare hard disk laying around to fit it... but if its missing a power supply too he will have additional expenditure and hassle to get another, where if it had been exactly "as said" he would assume he would be in for a bargain.

Really cant see how you're gonna win this one mate
Perhaps offer him something toward the cost of a new power supply / come to an arrangement to avoid ebay getting involved? :/

[atmadden]

So the laptop doesn't work hmm. I would have said if it was
working then definitely yes the Power supply is a part of the
package. As its not then its not so clear cut I guess.

If you have found the Power supply then why not send it if he
agrees to it and chalk it up to experience and be more detailed next time.

You have said sold as seen and in the picture there is clearly no Power supply, so you could argue on that point.

That is the point i have put across as with a spares/repair machine what you see is what you get. i would expect a power supply if it was working but it isn't.

[Saracen]

My old law lecturer used to describe exactly this situation (assuming, atmadden, that you're a private individual selling this, not a dealer) as follows :-

"When buying a horse, walk round and check it has a leg on each corner, because if it doesn't, you can't complain later".

Essentially, when you sell privately, you are responsible for the accuracy of any statements you make if they are a matter of substance (i.e. it's green, which is the absolute best colour, couldn't really be objected to if it wasn't the best colour). But if you said it was an Athlon 1700, it had better be one, not a 1600.

As a private seller, you aren't responsible for what the buyer assumes. He is responsible for asking any relevant questions, and making any necessary enquiries. About all you're responsible for is the accuracy of any description you offer, claims you make and answers you give. In other words, if you haven't misrepresented the goods, you're in the clear.

That, in my non-expert view, is the legal position. What will happen in regards to Ebay dispute resolution, however, is entirely another matter. But, if Ebay refund him, I'd say you have a decent claim against him in the Small Claims Court.

After all, it was clearly marked as for spares/repair, not as a working system, and you didn't say PSU included.

So while he might have assumed that, and I might have too in his shoes, and I might be feeling a bit hard done by, I still say it's his problem, not yours (TECHNICALLY) for failing to read carefully and cynically enough, and to ask the necessary questions.

[atmadden]

I also stated Sold as seen and there was no power supply in pic!

[Saracen]

I also stated Sold as seen and there was no power supply in pic!

Indeed. You are not, in this kind of thing, your brother's keeper.

He may have expected the PSU but it's his responsibility to check. It seems he didn't. That's my view, anyway.

[Jonny]

To be honest, I would have been disapointed if I didn't receive a power brick.
If I were you, I would offer to send him that one that you mentioned you have located, but at his own cost.

[jamin]

Thorny issue mate, in one breath you stated "complete apart from....." yet in another "sold as seen"

If you bought a car on ebay, the pictures of it wont show the gearstick and the seller wouldn't have stated "gearstick included" but you would expect to see one when you get in it to drive it home!

At the end of the day, you should have been really specific about what was included, it doesnt take 2 minutes to list all the bits. Ebay is full of pedantic muppets who all want something for nothing.

This brings to mind the "batteries not included" statements that electronics makers had to print on packaging after a few stupid fat yanks decided to take them to court because "little Johnny has never been the same since his action man walkie takies stayed silent on christmas day"

For the sake of a quid in postage and a jiffy bag I would bung the brick in the post. Its not a dispute either side can easily win and IMHO not worth the agro.

[atmadden]

I have certainly learnt my lesson as far as descriptions go. I have offered the buyer the power supply as a gesture of goodwill as long as they close the dispute but am now getting a wall of silence.

[KBeee]

As a gesture of goodwill?
You sell a laptop minus a HD, as send a laptop minus HD and power supply!
And then you get upset when the (conned) buyer complains!
By your argument, you could sell a car stating "Spare wheel missing" , and then send a car without the spare wheel and engine, just cos your photo never showed the bonnet open...

[MadduckUK]

id have to agree with Kbee. if anything isn't included that would be if it was purchased new then LIST IT.

for example:
no manuals/ other doc's
no power supply
cover on a PC card slot missing

i would even go as far as to say if any of the rubber feet had fallen off the bottom of the lappy id hypothetically be selling.

the main thing to remember tho is:
WHAT OF IMPORTANCE IS MISSING FROM WHEN IT WAS NEW.

EDIT: after another read of Kbee's post (think he's edited it) i agree even more. you said it was complete apart from 1 item. this was not the case. you lose
EDIT AGAIN: and this is one of the reasons people are getting wary of eBay