CrossFireX (4xGPU's) in XP Pro x64

[Dave_07]

Hi, Sorry to be asking this here, but ask'ed at the official ATI Forums, and got no answer lol, and tried googling aswell, no luck.

Basically just need clarification. Will a CrossfireX setup, two 4870 x2 cards (totalling 4 gpu's) work on Windows XP Professional x64 Edition ? I am confused as the FAQ on it says it's a vista only feature, but the some what very vague driver release notes suggest full support for crossfirex (4 gpu's) on a xp x64 platform now. This together with the fact that the FAQ is nearly a year old now, makes me think it would work, and the FAQ is just out of date.

Thanks, Dave.

[Robscure]

Hi, Sorry to be asking this here, but ask'ed at the official ATI Forums, and got no answer lol, and tried googling aswell, no luck.

Basically just need clarification. Will a CrossfireX setup, two 4870 x2 cards (totalling 4 gpu's) work on Windows XP Professional x64 Edition ? I am confused as the FAQ on it says it's a vista only feature, but the some what very vague driver release notes suggest full support for crossfirex (4 gpu's) on a xp x64 platform now. This together with the fact that the FAQ is nearly a year old now, makes me think it would work, and the FAQ is just out of date.

Thanks, Dave.

While I don't have the answer to your question, I feel I should mention to you incase you don't know, that the 4870's run very hot, and very loud, and use a lot of energy... And if you want to run 4870x2...x2.... then you are going to have one hell of a load on your computer, a lot of heat, and a lot of noise...

[Will404]

While I don't have the answer to your question, I feel I should mention to you incase you don't know, that the 4870's run very hot, and very loud, and use a lot of energy... And if you want to run 4870x2...x2.... then you are going to have one hell of a load on your computer, a lot of heat, and a lot of noise...

They are not noisy, just hot, as the fan is slow

[badass]

Thos seems a strange question. 2 HD4870X2's is over £600. Vista x64 Home premium is £60 for an OEM license. Why not just get that rather than using the PITA that is XP x64

[Infinite]

Doubt it, windows xp x64 was complete fail through crappy driver support.

[jimbouk]

Doubt it, windows xp x64 was complete fail through crappy driver support.

Not so any more. All the major players like ATI (AMD) keep there drivers as up-to-date on XP-64 as any other platform - it's v8.11 for all of them.

[Infinite]

Not so any more. All the major players like ATI (AMD) keep there drivers as up-to-date on XP-64 as any other platform - it's v8.11 for all of them.

ok, my mistake, crossfirex should work then, i think.

tbh i just buy vista...

[Dave_07]

So two 4870's x2 in CrossFireX would work under XP x64 then ? - as been trying to get clarification, but unfortunately i still haven't got an answer about this on the ati forums as this is the last technical issue i need to resolve before i can go ahead and order this new i7 spec

Anyway on a side note regarding the two cards temps/ fan speed/ power needs, i will be getting a 1500w psu, so that covers the power needs, and a antec 900 with two additional fans, 1x120m one the side panel (which wil probably be on full blast) and another on the back of one of the hdd cages to help cool the cards, which should hopefully keep the cards cool enough. About the fan speed, i'm sure i read that ati included a new fan speed adjustment option in the new ccc. Also i did consider vista, but after trying it out for 2-3 months, i don't think it's for me, it's abit bloated and i'm specifically looking for a low consumption 64bit os.

Dave.

[Robscure]

So two 4870's x2 in CrossFireX would work under XP x64 then ? - as been trying to get clarification, but unfortunately i still haven't got an answer about this on the ati forums as this is the last technical issue i need to resolve before i can go ahead and order this new i7 spec

Anyway on a side note regarding the two cards temps/ fan speed/ power needs, i will be getting a 1500w psu, so that covers the power needs, and a antec 900 with two additional fans, 1x120m one the side panel (which wil probably be on full blast) and another on the back of one of the hdd cages to help cool the cards, which should hopefully keep the cards cool enough. About the fan speed, i'm sure i read that ati included a new fan speed adjustment option in the new ccc. Also i did consider vista, but after trying it out for 2-3 months, i don't think it's for me, it's abit bloated and i'm specifically looking for a low consumption 64bit os.

Dave.

1500w is quite a lot... some may say it's overkill... You should make sure it has a high efficiency, and make sure your system is running at 600-1000w at least... If it's under 600w at load, then you're really running risk of wasting a lot of energy (meaning a higher electricity bill...) But running a system with that much power is going to be costing a lot every month already, so you may want to try to maximize efficiency and save as much of it as you can. I really think doing what you're doing is overkill, especially for gaming, a single 4850 will do the trick just fine, and not waste so much power.

Definitely read this regarding PSU's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Supply_Unit

"It's important to match the capacity of a power supply to the power needs of the computer. The energy efficiency of power supplies drops significantly at low loads. Efficiency generally peaks at about 50-75% load. The curve varies from model to model (for examples of how this curve looks see the test reports of energy efficient models found on the 80 PLUS website). One rule of thumb is that a power supply that's over twice the required size will be significantly less efficient, and waste a lot of electricity."

[Dave_07]

Cheers for the link Robscure, was some stuff i didn't know in there.
Getting maybe just a single 4870 x2 and dropping the psu down accordingly certainly would save considerably on the system cost and energy in the long run. The thing is, when ever i get a new build i usually try and future proof it as much as possible, and i know that such a concept, when it come to gaming systems at least, is never really as possible as we'd like, so i guess that's why i tend to go overboard sometimes lol.

Also one thing that i only just now found out is that due to the layout of the motherboard, the sound card would have to sit directly next to the 4870's, so it's going to get pounded by the heat of the two cards. I should have discovered it earlier but was preoccupied with checking on corssfireX compatibility.
So im unsure now, as sound artefacts could become a problem.

I guess it comes down to one rather simple yet mondaine question, will a single 4870x2 be able to play games like crysis 2/bioshock 2 and similar upcoming titles like mirrors edge in all their glory, but i guess that something that's impossible to tell atm.

[Robscure]

Cheers for the link Robscure, was some stuff i didn't know in there.
Getting maybe just a single 4870 x2 and dropping the psu down accordingly certainly would save considerably on the system cost and energy in the long run. The thing is, when ever i get a new build i usually try and future proof it as much as possible, and i know that such a concept, when it come to gaming systems at least, is never really as possible as we'd like, so i guess that's why i tend to go overboard sometimes lol.

Also one thing that i only just now found out is that due to the layout of the motherboard, the sound card would have to sit directly next to the 4870's, so it's going to get pounded by the heat of the two cards. I should have discovered it earlier but was preoccupied with checking on corssfireX compatibility.
So im unsure now, as sound artefacts could become a problem.

I guess it comes down to one rather simple yet mondaine question, will a single 4870x2 be able to play games like crysis 2/bioshock 2 and similar upcoming titles like mirrors edge in all their glory, but i guess that something that's impossible to tell atm.

I'm new here myself, and when I first signed up a week ago I didn't know anything about the latest technology because I'd been out of computers since 2006 at least, and my computer was from 2003 anyways!

But, I asked so many questions, got so much help from the community here, and read so many articles for hours on end, that I got headaches really bad, but came out with quite a bit of knowledge... So I'll share what little I know with you.

If money is not a problem and you want top-quality products, then read this:

My little guide to some of the finest hardware on the planet, from what I've learned, and if any of my information is wrong, then please let me know. I'm supporting everything I'm saying with reviews from trust-worthy sources.....

Future-proofing is impossible because technology is constantly advancing. However, if you like to just play video games then future-proofing becomes possible because most games rely on GPU as opposed to CPU, and when they do rely on CPU, then you can upgrade and that upgrade should last for many years to come. Right now, the Dual Core's are more than enough to run Crysis. And the 4850's run Crysis just fine as well. The only matter is how big your monitor will be, and how high your settings will be.

If you want to run 1900+ resolution on max settings, then you're going to struggle. Every card struggles at those settings... But the top cards, nVidia's SLi'd 280's; and ATI's crossfired 4870's, will run at those settings with way above the playable 40 FPS, I believe some benchmarks even reached the 100's.

However, are you really going to play at those settings? Are you looking for eye-candy? Or are you a competitor who wants to get the jump on your real-life opponents over the internet and get a lot of headshots (like me)?

If you want eye-candy, then you will want the biggest monitor you can afford, and 4870x2 so that you can pump up your resolution and get the absolute most beautiful scenes you possibly can out of every game... However... You can get just as beautiful scenes with a 22" monitor (22"'s are the standard for competitive gaming as of now), and run at 1600 resolution with max settings and get over 100 fps on a 4850.

The benchmarks are mostly overkill, they just squeeze the life out of their hardware to show you what it's capable of, but that's not "real-life" performance... When you're sitting at your computer, you have a case that doesn't let heat out as well as their opened up computer, free to spit and breathe fire for hours on end with the latest in watercooling and air technology...

Do you really want to sit 1 metre away from a 30" monitor and burn your eyes out?

I personally think 22" is border-line on too much, but that's what I'm getting since LCD's are the way to go, and CRT's are in the past.

I'm getting my computer fresh, from the ground up, because I dont' even have a desktop PC anymore, so I'm buying everything, and it's costing me ~£1900 for the whole computer setup...

Here is what I'm getting... to give you an idea of a computer that will run any game on a 22" at max settings for years to come, with maybe upgrading the GPU if necessary (but probably not for at least a year)... This system not only performs well, but runs cool and quiet... note that I'm getting an i7, so it's an extra £300-500 from what you could get that will run Crysis at max settings as well, I just want the extra umph and system performance outside of games, as well as that cushion of future-proofing as the quad and 8x cores are going to push Duo's into history.

Note: all prices are including VAT.

Case: Silverstone TJ07B... for £222 it is a very expensive case, but quite possibly the #1 case money can buy, great air-cooling, and certainly the best watercooling case. You can save yourself £120 and get a good Lian-Li case for under £100. Review: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/S...in_TJ07/6.html

Monitor: 22" LG... as I said, this is the standard for competitive gaming at the moment, these 22" offer the best performance without spending £800 and without sacrificing visual quality... They are full of eye-candy, and you don't have to sit all the way across the room to look at them for more than an hour. £177 for this bad-boy, which received great ratings across the board http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/i...?reviewid=1482 While it may not be for everyone, it is a no-bull screen which offers quality visuals and excellent performance, lacking only in customization and tilting/adjusting height/etc... something that I personally find useless for my needs.

Mobo: Asus P6T Deluxe x58... £242 this is the mobo to beat for the performance/quality in the x58 category. Asus and Gigabyte are the two top makers at the moment, with my personal choice being Asus. Quote: "A quick altered setting in the BIOS allowed me to push the Core i7 processor to 3.9 GHz (29 multiplier) on the fly... I guarantee you, covered or not, this mainboard is the shiznit and will make your Core i7 experience a very pleasant one." - Review: http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-p...motherboard/15

CPU: Intel i7 920... The best bang for your buck as far as the new i7's are concerned @ £231, with stable overclocking capabilities of up to (and perhaps beyond, with top-end watercooling, and balls of steel) 3.9 ghz. It's expensive, but if you want future-proofing, this and the P6T Deluxe are the hardware to beat. Gaming on them should last for years to come. Review: http://www.custompc.co.uk/reviews/60...l-core-i7.html

RAM: 6GB Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600... £264... the i7 setup is expensive because you have to upgrade both Mobo and Ram, and they're all three more expensive than their predecessors. If you want top of the line, you'll have to dish out an extra £300-500 to upgrade to the i7 and the necessary mobo/ram. But it's not necessary, you can get by with spending £200 total on mobo+cpu+ram if you stay in the Core 2 Duo range. Review: http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/166...kit/index.html

CPU cooler: Noctua NH-U12P @ £50 it's not for everyone, but if you plan on overclocking your CPU, then you need the best cooling on your CPU, and Noctua offers top-of-the-line for the 1366 chipsets. Review: http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling...oc.aspx?i=3268

GPU: BFG GTX 260 OCX Maxcore... For £252 you can get one of the best GPU's on the market, as opposed to £370 for the Radeon 4870x2 (which runs too hot for my liking). Review: http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforc...ocx-maxcore/17

Quotes on the GPU (from Guru3d):

The product at reference specification is pretty much dead on with a Radeon HD 4870, at a slightly lower price = a win.
The BFG version is massively overclocked, performance is actually close and/or similar to the GeForce GTX 280 = a win.

PSU: 625W Enermax Modular 82 plus is said to be the absolute best on the market, after careful consideration I chose to get this instead of the Corsair HX (which is number 2). £97 .... Review: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article806-page6.html

TOTAL: £1535 (subtract £177 if you don't need a monitor); (subtract £150-200 if you don't need the very expensive Silverstone case); (subtract £500 if you want a Core 2 Duo and Mobo with 4gb DDR2 RAM); (subtract £50-100 if you want a cheaper gpu, such as 4850)... and you have yourself one of the highest performing PC's for your money.

Well, those are the main specs, I hope they help give you an idea of what the top-performing PC's to-date are like. If you want to spend money for the best of the best, then these are the products you should be looking at.

[shaithis]

2 4870x2 cards isn't overkill if you will use/need their performance.....is all down to what you want/need.

But, you would need an absolute minimum of a 24" (but probably a 30") monitor before you really can use all that power.

Even with a 30" screen, I find a single 4870x2 enough, yes, some games will not run completely smooth at 2560x1600 but I can live with 1920x1200 in those few titles.

As for operating system, I would strongly suggest Vista x64. I have XP64 and have used it a lot since it was first released.....yes vista consumes more resources but considering the hardware your throwing at this PC, that overhead is not going to be noticeable.....and the support (especially gaming) that you would gain from moving to Vista is a lot more worthwhile IMO.

At any time you could see XP64 support cease from ATI/nVidia and you will constantly have to keep XP64 in mind whenever you think of a new piece of hardware.

[moogle]

Like others have said that 1500w PSU is overkill. The system wouldn't use over 600w I'd think. An 850w PSU would do it (IF they have the cables). Save that extra however much it is for the 2nd 4870 X2 and spend it on a GPU upgrade when your current one can't do what you want it to do.

Futureproof as much as you like but the premium you'll be paying on top of that isn't worth it. Your system is much more futureproof if you save some of that and upgrade later on (sell your old card and use the money + savings to purchase the newer one).

The 4870X2 will be able to play those titles you speak of if they come out within a year or two. Unless you're looking for max settings then it might not. Saving your money on the 2nd X2 would be a better choice

[Dave_07]

Before i continue, i just wanna say a very, very big thank you to everyone for their help thus far. - as researching this new build is getting more and more complicated by the day.

Anyway, now to the bad news, in researching whether every single piece of hardware / application i would be using on the new system, if they will work, i found out that XP x64 is not compatible with the anti-virus/firewall i want to use However it is compatible with 64bit vista. The good news tho is that the things i did not like about vista, i have since spent a good hour researching, and found out that those annoying features of vista can apparently be disabled. So i guess it's going to be 64bit vista after all. I'll certainly get better "future proofing" as it were, with vista than i would with xp x64 i guess.

But now there's a new problem, my current usb adsl modem is apparently "vista compatible" (that's what sagem say on their site, see link: http://www.sagem.com/support/site/mo...00/840&pays=uk) but i have no idea if it includes a 64bit driver, knowing sod's-law, it probably doesn't. So i need to get a new adsl modem, a simple task i thought, but im having trouble finding a usb adsl modem that has vista 64bit driver support any suggestions would be very welcome.

Also thank you shaithis & Robscure, if you hadn't mentioned about the power of crossfireX only becoming most evident @ 1900x rez and above, i would had never thought to check my monitors max rez specs. My monitor has a max rez of 1600x1200 @ 75Hz, so you guys are very right, it would be pointless getting crossfireX and using it on a montior with such a low max rez, so that means it's going to be just the single 4870x2 after all aswell. Im not going to get a 4850, which yes, would probably be more apt for my monitor, because i don't know if im going to get a newer monitor later on, but if i do, then i'll be glad of the 4870x2.

Robscure, It appears that we are in the same boat as my scenario is almost identical to yours, i've been out of the world of computers for a while, but now it's time for a new system, so i, like you, am having to do the usual multitude of hours on google, reviews sites, compatibility lists, to make sure everything will work. But i can tell you one thing, i am very glad that i have. There have been several insistence's over the past weeks where i came close to ordering the new system, only to come across an informing article, or find some important bit of info on google or on forums that meant i had to change something about the new spec.

My potential new system is almost the same as the one your going for Robscure, only with a antec 900 case, 12Gb of ram, probably a 1000w (ish) psu, a 4870 x2, a cooler master cpu cooler and the cpu & mobo are the same as yours.

Who knew that just buying a new system could be so complicated.

[mehmeh]

Echo peoples thoughts on Vista and know you've now decided to go that way now, but just surprised now one said the obvious. Vista = DX10, anything less would be wasted on those 4870s, if not so much right now, wouldnt of been long before you'd of regretted it.

Your linky doesnt work for me. But could always try emailing Sagem and asking. Dunno much about ADSL modems or 64bit drivers, sorry. But if it does prove an issue, what about one with an Ethernet port or plugging your current one into a Router for the same result, or indeed a modem/router combo if your spending money anyway?

HTH

[Dave_07]

Echo peoples thoughts on Vista and know you've now decided to go that way now, but just surprised now one said the obvious. Vista = DX10, anything less would be wasted on those 4870s, if not so much right now, wouldnt of been long before you'd of regretted it.

Your linky doesnt work for me. But could always try emailing Sagem and asking. Dunno much about ADSL modems or 64bit drivers, sorry. But if it does prove an issue, what about one with an Ethernet port or plugging your current one into a Router for the same result, or indeed a modem/router combo if your spending money anyway?

HTH

vista is a compromise, it's all that's left, as 64bit option. Owing to the fact that the av/fw aren't supported on x64 XP. It's now either vista or 32bit XP, and going 32bit means under 4gb max memory, which kind defeats the whole point of a new system altogether. That said, i do see your point, this lack of xp x64 support, is as you and others pointed out, it's only indicative of the future for 64bit XP, however i was not aware of this, but i obviously am now, due to the helpful advice of others here.

About the modem, i don't know what to do on that front. My current one, just like my current mouse/kb and my mp3 player, and my external hdd, my camera, my scanner, my printer... need i go on ? all wouldn't work on vista, and im not sure about further support for them, and god knows why these companies take the time to make 64bit XP compatible drivers but can't seem to stretch to vista 64bit ones. But these devices i can just be used on the old system i guess.

I don't know why the link doesn't work, but here's basically the jist of it:

As you can see, no mention of 64bit.

Thx, Dave.

Edit: wish i had found this to begin with:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.78523
about half way down there's a screen shot that answers about a dozen questions i had.
would have saved some time, always the way i guess.