New graphics card or more cooling?

[TooNice]

Thank you for your input. Please tell me, if I have 380W psu and my graphics card is drawing 200W under load, does that mean that there is 180W left over for all of the other components or does it not work that way? Does it put out 380W to each component or are those 380W divided between the components?

380W is divided between the components. Note that the 3850 does not draw 200W under load. 200W under load was for the entire test system. The 3850 draws about 65W under load.

That said, it's a bit more complicated than that, the 380W is split across 12V, 5V and 3.3V rails. The most important rail for GFX card (and CPU these days), is the 12V rail. You will need to check the amp on that rail (should be written on the PSU).

Come to think of it, your concerns are definitely warranted. I seem to remember (but you'll have to double check, or see if anyone corrects me) that Athlon XP based chip are based on the 5V rail. If that's the case, you may have enough power on the 12V rail to run a 3850. CPU these days are powered from the 12V rail, so you need quite a lot more amp on the 12V rails compared to PSUs from the Athlon XP days.

[BGA]

It says that the 12V has a max of 24 amps.

It also says, "5V, 12V, and 3.3V max. load 360W"

Why would it claim to be a 380W psu and then say that?

[Pob255]

As MSIC as already said, it's AGP so new a card is probably not worth it, a cheap 2nd card would be better if you want something to get you running.

Do you mean adding a 2nd card in tandem with the 9800? I have one AGP slot and 5 PCI slots.

Sorry I missed out the word "hand" there.
What I ment is that looking around for a 2nd hand high end dx9 agp card would probably be better than a new agp card
So a 7900gs or better or a x1900pro or better

The 380w is off all rails includeing the -5v and other odd and no longer used numbers.
the problem with older psu's is not so much the total wattage but the areas it supplies it in.
Currently 12v is the big one older psu's were more about 5v
Another point to consider is age, as psu's age they get weaker.
However
+3.3v: 3.26v
+5v: 4.87
+12v: 11.84
All of these are a bit low but within spec.

However your overall system is getting a bit long in the tooth you could do with a full overhaul.
for a good budget system I sugest the following (you'll have to look up US prices and suppliers yourself)
CPU =AMD x2 7750+ BlackEdition, around £60
780g chipset motherboard, around £70
320gb Sata hard drive, £42ish
A good 450w psu £45ish
Ati 4830 or nvidia 9800gt £95ish
Thoes are rough UK prices so US will vary, price drops take longer to reach us and the fluctuating pound doesn't help matters

[BGA]

Sorry I missed out the word "hand" there.
What I ment is that looking around for a 2nd hand high end dx9 agp card would probably be better than a new agp card
So a 7900gs or better or a x1900pro or better

The 380w is off all rails includeing the -5v and other odd and no longer used numbers.
the problem with older psu's is not so much the total wattage but the areas it supplies it in.
Currently 12v is the big one older psu's were more about 5v
Another point to consider is age, as psu's age they get weaker.
However
+3.3v: 3.26v
+5v: 4.87
+12v: 11.84
All of these are a bit low but within spec.

However your overall system is getting a bit long in the tooth you could do with a full overhaul.
for a good budget system I sugest the following (you'll have to look up US prices and suppliers yourself)
CPU =AMD x2 7750+ BlackEdition, around £60
780g chipset motherboard, around £70
320gb Sata hard drive, £42ish
A good 450w psu £45ish
Ati 4830 or nvidia 9800gt £95ish
Thoes are rough UK prices so US will vary, price drops take longer to reach us and the fluctuating pound doesn't help matters

Thank you for the recommendation. Several people on a couple of websites have recommended the 7750 as well as the 780g, but one guy recommended the 770. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128376

Aside from that the 780 has on board video and the 770 does not, is there any other difference performance wise?

I would reuse my harddrive, but you forgot RAM in your list. Its going to cost me roughly $400 for the upgrade, which should be fine in a few months. I'm quite set on that rather than upgrading my current GPU.

[Pob255]

Must admit I'm not very "up" on AMD, if all it's missing is the onboard graphics then I'd say it looks good.
Also the msi 770 looks nice as well for a low cost board
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813130173R
Although that is open box so it's just the motherboard and no bits that come with it.

Sorry I forgot about the memory
2gb of ddr2 pc-6400 800mhz should be fine
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227189

For PSU, the enermax should be good and is not that pricey
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817194037

I would consider getting a decent Sata2 (3.0Gbs) hard drive they are a nice speed bump over an old IDE drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136098


Unfortunately your current pc has got to the point were a full upgade is in order.

[BGA]

I have this HD now: WD Caviar 16SE 250GB
-16MB Cache, 7200RPM
(I upgraded my old IDE a year ago when it crashed)
How does it stack up against that one to which you linked?
Currently I'm using 96/250GB so a 250GB is plenty for me.


Here's what I came up with (how do you make a saved wish list a public wish list?):

GIGABYTE GA-MA770-UD3 AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
POWERCOLOR AX4830 512MD3-H Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
Thermaltake Purepower W0121RU 600W ATX12V V2.0 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Power Supply - Retail
AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition Processor Model AD775ZWCGHBOX - Retail
OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2P10664GK - Retail

The total is $396.35 w/shipping, and there is $80 in mail in rebates not counted against that price...


The PSU is more than you're recommending and I think that it would be a good idea to get one capable of crossfire, as adding a second 4830 somewhere down the road would be a good upgrade. What do you all think of that? Is the Enermax 405W that Pob255 recommends sufficient for crossfire?

The RAM that I linked was suggested by a guy on another site. It is 1066MHz. Is that more than the rest of the components could make use of?

I would like to know if there is anything in my list that is overkill, or that won't realize its full potential because of limitations of the other components.

[BGA]

Also: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...nd&Order=PRICE

Wow, look at how cheap DDR3 RAM is.. I must be missing something there.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I have the PowerColor HD4830 myself. It is shorter than the normal HD4830 card and the cooler is pretty decent although it is a bit noisy when it ramps up. Currently with an aftermarket cooler I have it at 700mhz for the core which is great but only 925mhz for the RAM which is not so great!!

However I bought the PowerColor one since I got it cheap. However I would go for the Sapphire HD4830 as it is the best HD4830 out there:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102822

It also has PowerPlay working unlike most other HD4830 cards meaning that it will idle at only 160mhz for the core and 250mhz for the RAM when you are not gaming!! This means lower power consumption and less heat produced. It also comes with a decent dual slot cooler too.


Here are some reviews of the Sapphire HD4830:

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=654

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...re,2098-4.html

http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/ind...=629&Itemid=27

http://www.o v e r c l o c k 3 d.net/reviews.php?/gpu_displays/sapphire_radeon_hd_4830_-_budget_overclocking/2

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapp_4830/

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1415&pageID=5842


Regarding the PSU the following would be better if you are spending $90 to $100 on a PSU:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817703005

However I am abit dubious over the benefits of using crossfire or SLI as an upgrade path. Unless you are going to go for a secondhand HD4830 on the cheap in the future it would probably be better to just a newer graphics in the same price range as the HD4830 used to be in. I assume in the year or so much faster cards will come out at the same price level.

I would go for the following PSUs instead:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341012

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341010

This should save you some more money.

This is what I would go for:

4gb OCZ 800mhz DDR2 RAM ~$40

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227195

OCZ 500W PSU ~ $60

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341012

Sapphire HD4830 ~ $99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102822

MSI motherboard ~$53

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813130173R

The motherboard supports the Phenom II!!

Phenom II X3 720 ~ $147

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...#37;20x3%20720

The Phenom II X3 720 is based on a newer architechure than the X2 7750+,is clocked higher,has an extra core and more cache!! Since it is a Black Edition processor it is easier to overclock too!! The Phenom II also is more energy effecient too!

The total comes to around $399.47 excluding any rebates!! There is $45 in rebates too!

[Pob255]

I have this HD now: WD Caviar 16SE 250GB
-16MB Cache, 7200RPM
(I upgraded my old IDE a year ago when it crashed)
How does it stack up against that one to which you linked?
Currently I'm using 96/250GB so a 250GB is plenty for me.

Ok hadn't realised you had moved over to sata.
Yes that's a good one same as I have

GIGABYTE GA-MA770-UD3 AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
POWERCOLOR AX4830 512MD3-H Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
Thermaltake Purepower W0121RU 600W ATX12V V2.0 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Power Supply - Retail
AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition Processor Model AD775ZWCGHBOX - Retail
OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2P10664GK - Retail

The total is $396.35 w/shipping, and there is $80 in mail in rebates not counted against that price...


The PSU is more than you're recommending and I think that it would be a good idea to get one capable of crossfire, as adding a second 4830 somewhere down the road would be a good upgrade. What do you all think of that? Is the Enermax 405W that Pob255 recommends sufficient for crossfire?

The RAM that I linked was suggested by a guy on another site. It is 1066MHz. Is that more than the rest of the components could make use of?

I would like to know if there is anything in my list that is overkill, or that won't realize its full potential because of limitations of the other components.

Big problem with crossfire, the 770 cannot do it and only has a single pci-e x16 slot.

On graphics card I would consider the HIS iceQ4 it's a bit more money but it is a very good cooler.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161267
If you can afford the extra I would, if not just get a cheap one.

Being in the US you have some additional PSU makes that we in the uk and eu just don't get
Rosewill 530W 80Plus Bronze Certified $55
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182160


@CAT-THE-FIFTH
Can AMD 770 use the phenon II ?? it's not listed as phenon II compatable
The cheapest phenon II listed is this Gigabyte 790x board at $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128387

And CAT which would be better for AMDs 800mhz memory or 1066mhz?

[Zhaoman]

thats a solid (very good ) spec. memory speeds really don't make a difference to performance really so getting a cheap pair is a good idea for ur budget. bear in mind though that revised gpus are coming out in a few months time so i wouldn't decided on a gpu just yet. if you're on a skin-tight budget i'd drop the Phenom X3 cat suggested and just go for the original suggestion of Athlon X2 7750. gaming wise the 7750 would keep pace with the X3 without much trouble.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Ok hadn't realised you had moved over to sata.
Yes that's a good one same as I have

Big problem with crossfire, the 770 cannot do it and only has a single pci-e x16 slot.

On graphics card I would consider the HIS iceQ4 it's a bit more money but it is a very good cooler.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161267
If you can afford the extra I would, if not just get a cheap one.

Being in the US you have some additional PSU makes that we in the uk and eu just don't get
Rosewill 530W 80Plus Bronze Certified $55
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182160


@CAT-THE-FIFTH
Can AMD 770 use the phenon II ?? it's not listed as phenon II compatable
The cheapest phenon II listed is this Gigabyte 790x board at $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128387

And CAT which would be better for AMDs 800mhz memory or 1066mhz?

The MSI motherboard is compatible with the Phenom II X3 720:

http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...ncat_no=1#menu

Yep it seems that the motherboard is not Crossfire capable but that is not such a huge loss IMHO.

TBH there maybe a small performance improvement with faster RAM but the extra money is better spent elsewhere.

The OCZ is a solid PSU. Not sure about Rosewill but if the reviews are good then it saves you a few dollars more!!

I would definitely go for the Sapphire HD4830 as the cooler seems decent and the fact PowerPlay is working also helps greatly. Going from 575mhz for the GPU and 900mhz for the RAM to 160mhz and 250mhz respectively in 2D is going to save a lot of power!!

I would definitely go for the Phenom II X3 processor. Not only is it clocked higher it also has the architectural improvements over the Phenom based Athlon X2 7750+ which means the former is between 5% to 10% faster per mhz. Also the idle power consumption of the Phenom II X3 720 is much lower than the Athlon X2 7750+ and it overclocks FAR better and runs cooler too. People have got the Phenom II X3 720 to 3.4ghz+ whereas you are lucky to reach 3ghz with an Athlon X2 7750+ and considering that more games are taking advantage of multiple cores means it will be longer lasting. One of these games is FarCry 2.

[BGA]

Well I love Far Cry so I'll have to take that into consideration! I have the original and Crysis, but not part 2 since my PC doesn't meet minimum requirements...

As for the memory speed, I read this which says that the memory speed that you get will be limited by your mobo so the AM2 boards support up to DDR2 800, so anything higher would be wasted.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Well for $400 you can get AMD's fastest triple core,4gb of RAM and a graphics card which when overclocked can reach the performance of an HD4850. I can play Crysis and Crysis Warhead at 1440x900 and 1680x1050 on decent settings(above medium) under XP using my HD4830 when overclocked.

I would invest in a triple core now as like I said it will last longer for gaming.It is much easier to upgrade your graphics card in the future than fiddling around with a CPU,motherboard and RAM. I would get a solid base to your system first. Remember that you want your system to run future games well too. Supposedly Alan Wake will take advantage of multiple cores as well. This is not surprising as many games are now multi-platform. If you look at the CPUs in the current generation consoles such as the Xenon in the Xbox 360 and the Cell in the PS3 they are designed to handle multiple threads.

[Pob255]

Well I love Far Cry so I'll have to take that into consideration! I have the original and Crysis, but not part 2 since my PC doesn't meet minimum requirements...

As for the memory speed, I read this which says that the memory speed that you get will be limited by your mobo so the AM2 boards support up to DDR2 800, so anything higher would be wasted.

That info is a bit out of date as you're looking at AM2+ motherboards, which will take faster memory, not the older AM2 motherboards

For low power there is the 5050e not as fast as ether the 7750BE or a phenon II but would be fine for older/less demanding games and still be a good jump up from an Athlon 3200+

A lot will depend on what he's aiming for, the original request was just a replacement for a 9800pro
So any of these will be a jump in performance.
The Phenon II x3 720 would be good but it's twice the price of the older 7750BE or 5050e
But it's going to be far better for Crysis and far cry2 (original far cry will be fine on the cheaper)

One other thing to note, the stock cooler that comes with the 7750BE (retail) is suposed to be very good, the stock cooler that comes with the 720 (retail) is not very good from what I've heard, esp if you want to overclock.
(note if a cpu is listed as retail it comes with a cooler, if it's listed as OEM then it does not come with a cooler)

An aftermarket cooler will depend on the size of your case, esp the width, Common tower coolers now use 120mm fans which keep them very quiet but do require a wider case (195mm wide minimum)
The Sunbeam Core-Contact Freezer is very good example and only $30 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835207004
If you have an older case they tend to be narrower so consider a 92mm fan based cooler
XIGMATEK XP-S964 92mm Rifle $23 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835233005
But this is going to push the price of the 720 up

If you can afford the 720 great if not go for a cheaper older cpu like the 7750BE you'll not be loseing that much and it's still going to be a step up from what you have now.

Rosewill are mainly rebranded OEM stuff from different manufactors, it's basically Newegg's "own brand" they can be good or bad, check the reviews first
And I don't think I dug deep enough, some bad commonets there as well as good ones, it's a bit of a risk

For minimum risk
ENERMAX MODU82+ 425w it's a very good modular PSU expensive but a massive rebate and it's $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817194031

And there is the good old Corsair VX450w $60 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139003

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Here is a picture of the newer heatsink:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Phenom-II-x3-720...305121004r2793

It looks like the one for the lower end Athlon X2 processors. I assume because the newer Phenom II tri-cores run cooler AMD decided a lesser heatsink could be used!!

[BGA]

It is hard to decide whether to make the jump to a phenom triple core. At any given level of price and performance, it is easy to say 'oh well for just $50 more I can get the next level of hardware' ad nauseum until you're spending $5K on a system. Maybe I will, but my purchase is 2 months off so I have plenty of time to mull it over.

As for Crysis, it plays just fine on my 3200+ - medium settings at least. I have no idea what is the FPS, but it certainly isn't noticeably choppy.

My case is the Antec Sonata, which I must say will be staying regardless of all else. It has worked fine for me and I simply can't imagine spending a dime on a new case when I have this one. I may invest in aftermarket coolers and perhaps even additional cooling but not a new case.

Here is a picture of the newer heatsink:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Phenom-II-x3-720...305121004r2793

That looks identical to the cooler on my 3200+. I can't say that it is the exact same cooler but I can say that it looks exactly the same.