The Geforce GTX 560 TI is out, opinions?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Hmmm, at 1080p the 6950 takes 5 of Hexus' gaming tests, vs 2 for the GTX560. Looks like an out and out win for AMD.

But then there's the Gigabyte SOC, which hammers the 6950 at 1080p and mixes it handily with the 6970.

Pricewise a bone stock 6950 2GB is ~ £30 more expensive than a GTX560. The 1GB version will help to address some of that and should provide similar performance up to 1080p, but as far as I can see I can't buy a 1GB 6950 in the UK today - and until they become available at retail the 6950 1GB is irrelevant.

Add to that that there are factory overclocked GTX560s in the shops now priced at the same level or lower than a 6950 2GB, whereas the only factory overclocked 6950 available is an ASUS with a whopping 10MHz core overclock It won't take much of a core overclock to put the GTX560 uniformly ahead of a 6950, and Scan have OCed cards from MSI (880MHz) and Gigabyte (900MHz) at < £210 which would probably do the trick.

So tbh it's not as clear cut a win for AMD as it might look on the surface. The 6950 still retains the bang-for-watt advantage that AMD have had for generations, and does have a performance advantage at stock clocks, but the GTX560 is cheaper, quieter, and is close enough in performance terms that overclocked versions, which are already readily available, can make up the stock performance difference.

Firstly,the current HD6950 2GB cards have a good chance of being unlocked to an HD6970 2GB. HD6950 2GB cards have been selling for low as £210 recently and you can get many cards for just under £230.

The near 1GHZ overclocked versions of the GTX560 are around £220 to £230 and only have 1GB of RAM too.

On top of this the HD6970 is the fully enabled part like the GTX560 and is only slightly bigger(389MM2 vs 367MM2).

The HD6950 1GB is already available from Pixmania for under £200.

On top of this you can overclock an HD6950 and HD6970 too:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...261317&page=10

For some funny reason people have forgotten you can overclock AMD cards too.

Why use CCC to overclock an AMD card when utilities like MSI Afterburner and ATI Tray Tools instead.

Even when you overclock both the GTX560 and the HD6950 1GB to their maximum there is very little in it and both cards cost around the same.

[DanceswithUnix]

Hmmm, at 1080p the 6950 takes 5 of Hexus' gaming tests, vs 2 for the GTX560. Looks like an out and out win for AMD.

The Anandtech tests favour AMD at 2560x1600, but at the resolutions most of us mortals run at there really doesn't seem to be anything in it.

[Bhavv]

The near 1GHZ overclocked versions of the GTX560 are around £220 to £230 and only have 1GB of RAM too.

No point in buying them, the MSI 880 Mhz is £203, and the Gigabyte 900 Mhz is £199. You just pick whichever one of those you prefer and overclock it yourself to 1000 Mhz+

[scaryjim]

That's a very good point, and hence the reason I've commented on the 1080p tests throughout

Ramp up to the 2560x1600 tests and the 6950, with its 2GB frame buffer, romps away from the GTX560 somewhat, to the extent that it reclaims the lead in the 2 nvidia-favouring tests at 1080p. It shows in the Gigabyte SOC review as well, with the 6950 closing the gap considerably at 2560x1600, and even winning out in 2 tests at the highest resolution. So it certainly looks like modern gaming 'only' requires 1GB up to 1080p, but benefits from larger frame buffers above that res.

Take another step back through the reviews and it looks like nvidia have judged it just right, as in hexus' tests the stock GTX560 is acheiving the sweet-spot of around 50 - 60 fps in most titles @ 1080p (ignoring the ridiculous ease-fest that is CoD, of course), which means that you *will* notice the difference between that and a slower GTX460 or Radeon 6850/70. So they seem to have hit the right balance of throughput and frame buffer for a good gaming experience at 1080p. It's noticable that, despite the 2GB frame buffer, the 6950/70 don't have the muscle to push out 50fps+ at the higher resolution. Sure, they're better than most of the 1GB cards, but you can't help thinking that they're a little short of processing power...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

No point in buying them, the MSI 880 Mhz is £203, and the Gigabyte 900 Mhz is £199. You just pick whichever one of those you prefer and overclock it yourself to 1000 Mhz+

OTH,you can get an HD6950 1GB and overclock this to around 950MHZ(from the stock 800MHZ).

The GTX560TI 1TB needs to be at around 900MHZ to match an HD6950 1GB at stock clockspeeds.

In the end there is nothing to really differentiate both of the cards as they are virtually the same price.

It is all down to what games you play and which card is better to suited to those games.

[DanceswithUnix]

Can't see anything inherently wrong with that Asus cooler, depends how the shroud directs the air around I would guess. Have seen 3 pipe coolers for CPUs give better results than similar 4 pipe coolers, simply because the heat spreader on a CPU is only the width of 3 pipes so more is a bad fit (only the inner 2 were really working).

Kind of like having a pair of huge pipes hanging off the back of a Saxo exhaust, sometimes these things are all looks and no actual performance to back it up.

Edit to add: That came across as pro the Asus platform, whereas I am really trying to say that I want firm benchmark numbers rather than pictures. Last few graphics cards I bought are Gainward, so I have no bias here honest

[scaryjim]

For some funny reason people have forgotten you can overclock AMD cards too.

Not going to respond to most of your post CAT, as I personally don't have any strong feeling either way - I reckon both cards are a pretty good buy (although at 1080p I might just favour the 560), but I have to respond to this as you've apparently missed my point.

I'm well aware that the enthusiast user with technical knowledge can overclock their own graphics card at home, but that's not 100% of the graphics card market: there are plenty of PC gamers who wouldn't even think of overclocking their own graphics card. By giving partners free rein with design and frequencies, nvidia are allowing their graphics cards to cover a much wider performance range out of the box, which makes them much more appealing to the "ordinary" PC gamer. So a Gigabyte GTX560 SOC gives you close to 6970 performance, guaranteed out of the box, for a significantly lower investment. You simply can't say that about buying a stock 6950 and hoping you get a good-clocking example...

[Terbinator]

Firstly,the current HD6950 2GB cards have a good chance of being unlocked to an HD6970 2GB. HD6950 2GB cards have been selling for low as £210 recently and you can get many cards for just under £230.

The near 1GHZ overclocked versions of the GTX560 are around £220 to £230 and only have 1GB of RAM too.

On top of this the HD6970 is the fully enabled part like the GTX560 and is only slightly bigger(389MM2 vs 367MM2).

The HD6950 1GB is already available from Pixmania for under £200.

On top of this you can overclock an HD6950 and HD6970 too:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...261317&page=10

For some funny reason people have forgotten you can overclock AMD cards too.

Why use CCC to overclock an AMD card when utilities like MSI Afterburner and ATI Tray Tools instead.

Even when you overclock both the GTX560 and the HD6950 1GB to their maximum there is very little in it and both cards cost around the same.

I don't see how the die size will sway someone to buy card X over Y, that and those of us who 'know' have clearly seen that the 1GB of the 560 meatches the 2GB of the 6950 @ 1080p.

>Pixmania.

As I've posted on Aria, at £200 budget there is no real reason not to go for the MSI given it's price point (£20 between both AMD offerings) and the Unicorn cards that should null the 560 on price, still haven't appeared.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I don't see how the die size will sway someone to buy card X over Y, that and those of us who 'know' have clearly seen that the 1GB of the 560 meatches the 2GB of the 6950.
>Pixmania.

Perhaps you should look at the HD6950 1GB reviews. You are on purpose avoiding the HD6950 1GB since it will be priced around the same as the GTX560TI. Pixmania are just the first retailer to list them for delivery to the UK.

Also,the whole point of the die size is that AMD can probably match the pricing of the 1GB and 2GB GTX560TI cards.

BTW,you do realise that 2GB GTX560TI cards are being launched too?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Not going to respond to most of your post CAT, as I personally don't have any strong feeling either way - I reckon both cards are a pretty good buy (although at 1080p I might just favour the 560), but I have to respond to this as you've apparently missed my point.

I'm well aware that the enthusiast user with technical knowledge can overclock their own graphics card at home, but that's not 100% of the graphics card market: there are plenty of PC gamers who wouldn't even think of overclocking their own graphics card. By giving partners free rein with design and frequencies, nvidia are allowing their graphics cards to cover a much wider performance range out of the box, which makes them much more appealing to the "ordinary" PC gamer. So a Gigabyte GTX560 SOC gives you close to 6970 performance, guaranteed out of the box, for a significantly lower investment. You simply can't say that about buying a stock 6950 and hoping you get a good-clocking example...

I was responding to the comment that many people should buy a cheaper GTX560 and overclock the nuts off it.

So what happens to the GTX570 then??

Also explain to me why so many reviews persist with using CCC to overclock their cards when there is simply better software to do so??

What about unlocking the HD6950 2GB then??

[DanceswithUnix]

I don't see how the die size will sway someone to buy card X over Y, that and those of us who 'know' have clearly seen that the 1GB of the 560 meatches the 2GB of the 6950 @ 1080p.

Rumour has it that Nvidia pay a bit less per square mm than ATI, so it sets how much the two can compete in a price war in future given that pretty much everything else is a level playing field.

[Terbinator]

Perhaps you should look at the HD6950 1GB reviews. You are on purpose avoiding the HD6950 1GB since it will be priced around the same as the GTX560TI. Pixmania are just the first retailer to list them for delivery to the UK.

NOPE.

I can't avoid something you can't effectively buy, and i even pointed out that the 1GB will be there to null the 560 on price.

[DanceswithUnix]

Ramp up to the 2560x1600 tests and the 6950, with its 2GB frame buffer, romps away from the GTX560 somewhat, to the extent that it reclaims the lead in the 2 nvidia-favouring tests at 1080p. It shows in the Gigabyte SOC review as well, with the 6950 closing the gap considerably at 2560x1600, and even winning out in 2 tests at the highest resolution. So it certainly looks like modern gaming 'only' requires 1GB up to 1080p, but benefits from larger frame buffers above that res.

Actually I was quite surprised at how well the 1GB 6950 did at 2560x1600 in the Anandtech tests. Perhaps AMD just have a better memory subsystem for that resolution.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

NOPE.

I can't avoid something you can't effectively buy, and i even pointed out that the 1GB will be there to null the 560 on price.

You can buy it though!

[Terbinator]

You can buy it though!

From Pixmania, who has some dubious returns/warranty for UK customer IIRC.

Scan, Ebuyer, Novatech and Aria show no 1GB 69xx cards.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

From Pixmania, who has some dubious returns/warranty for UK customer IIRC.

Scan, Ebuyer, Novatech and Aria show no 1GB 69xx cards.

Which means that they inbound to them too as Pixmania are part of the Dixons group.