The Geforce GTX 560 TI is out, opinions?

[scaryjim]

So what happens to the GTX570 then??

Not sure what you mean by that. Or why you're bringing the GTX570 into the conversation. It's a higher specification card and irrelevant to this disucssion.

Also explain to me why so many reviews persist with using CCC to overclock their cards when there is simply better software to do so??

How am I supposed to do that, exactly? Read their minds? Ninja into their offices and steal the secret memo's that say "always paint AMD graphics cards in as poor a light as possible!"? Or do you want me to join in your little game of conspiracies and speculation, rather than make comments based on the evidence available to me? Sorry CAT, but that's not my game.

I'm not questioning whether some review sites are biased one way or the other, I'm making a series of statements about the relative value of the two cards based on reviews from a site that I, personally, trust to be impartial, and my own research on availability and pricing.

What about unlocking the HD6950 2GB then??

As always, I would never advise buying any component based on the possibility of extracting more than stock performance out of it. And BIOS flashing is an even more technical activity than overclocking a graphics card.

I've been making my comments very specifically about unmodified retail-available cards, as that's what the majority of PC Gamers (rather than members of this forum) will be interested in, and that's the only level of performance you can actually guarantee. Overclocking and unlocking are nice extras, but I'd never give buying advice based on them.

[Bhavv]

In the end there is nothing to really differentiate both of the cards as they are virtually the same price.

I disagree with that. Firstly I will NEVER buy another reference cooled card. The MSI Twinfrozr GTX 560 is £203, whereas the 6950 is £259, and also that 6950 cannot be unlocked to a 6970.

Build quality and cooling are also very important things to consider when picking a card, and all the 6950s, at least the ones similar in price to the GTX 560 are rubbish reference cooled ones, whereas Nvidia have nice custom cooled GTX 560s at close enough to £200 from MSI and Gigabyte.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Not sure what you mean by that. Or why you're bringing the GTX570 into the conversation. It's a higher specification card and irrelevant to this disucssion.

You mentioned the HD6970 which is also a higher specification card targetted at the GTX570. If you mention the HD6970 then you should mention the GTX570.

If an overclocked GTX560TI matches or exceeds an HD6970 then it is not good news for the GTX570 too.

How am I supposed to do that, exactly? Read their minds? Ninja into their offices and steal the secret memo's that say "always paint AMD graphics cards in as poor a light as possible!"? Or do you want me to join in your little game of conspiracies and speculation, rather than make comments based on the evidence available to me? Sorry CAT, but that's not my game.

I'm not questioning whether some review sites are biased one way or the other, I'm making a series of statements about the relative value of the two cards based on reviews from a site that I, personally, trust to be impartial, and my own research on availability and pricing.

A few people have been commenting in this thread on buying a GTX560 and overclocking the nuts off it to past 1GHZ. Why not comment on this?

As always, I would never advise buying any component based on the possibility of extracting more than stock performance out of it. And BIOS flashing is an even more technical activity than overclocking a graphics card.

I've been making my comments very specifically about unmodified retail-available cards, as that's what the majority of PC Gamers (rather than members of this forum) will be interested in, and that's the only level of performance you can actually guarantee. Overclocking and unlocking are nice extras, but I'd never give buying advice based on them.

It will be interesting when this card is released though:

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=28578

OTH,it would only make sense if it were much cheaper than a HD6970 2GB.

I disagree with that. Firstly I will NEVER buy another reference cooled card. The MSI Twinfrozr GTX 560 is £203, whereas the 6950 is £259, and also that 6950 cannot be unlocked to a 6970.

Build quality and cooling are also very important things to consider when picking a card, and all the 6950s, at least the ones similar in price to the GTX 560 are rubbish reference cooled ones, whereas Nvidia have nice custom cooled GTX 560s at close enough to £200 from MSI and Gigabyte.

I never mentioned that the HD6950 1GB could be unlocked though as it lacks the dual BIOS feature too.

The HD6950 2GB is NOT £259.

Perhaps you are looking at OcUK pricing??

BTW,I have had reference Nvidia and AMD cards before and the coolers are fine in most cases.

Also,all the HD6950 cards have reference coolers and people seem to be OK with them on OcUK (A forum you are on also BTW).

The 1GB HD6950 cards also have non-reference coolers too if you bothered to look.

[Bhavv]

I never mentioned that the HD6950 1GB could be unlocked though as it lacks the dual BIOS feature too.

The HD6950 2GB is NOT £259.

BTW,I have had referance Nvidia and AMD cards before and the coolers are fine in most cases.

Also,all the HD6950 cards have reference coolers and people seem to be OK with them on OcUK(A forum you are on also BTW).

The 1GB HD6950 cards have non-reference coolers too if you bothered to look.

Perhaps you are looking at OcUK pricing??

This is the only one I would consider:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...56&subcat=1752

The 1 Gb 6950s havnt actually launched yet, hence I havnt been able to look.

The reference coolers are not fine for me. There is a huge difference between having to run at 90+ degrees with a lot of noise when overclocked, or completely silent at <80 degrees on a card with a decent cooler like MSI's.

People who say that the reference coolers are fine usually are not overclocking / overvolting as much as I do. I've used plenty of reference cooled ATI cards in the past, they were all too hot or too noisy when overclocked, so I wont be buying them again.

Another deciding factor for me is that only MSI and Asus cover overvolting and overclocking under their warranty, I wont be buying brands like HIS, Powercolor, or Sapphire again because they do not offer this.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

This is the only one I would consider:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...56&subcat=1752

The reference coolers are not fine for me. There is a huge difference between having to run at 90+ degrees, or with a lot of noise, or completely silent at <80 degrees on a card with a decent cooler like MSI's.

People who say that the reference coolers are fine usually are not overclcoking / overvolting as much as I do.


Another deciding factor for me is that only MSI and Asus cover overvolting and overclocking under their warranty, I wont be buying brands like HIS, Powercolor, or Sapphire again because they do not offer this.

The reason you need a heftier cooler in the first place is because the Nvidia GTX560ti cards have to be overclocked in the first place to exceed the HD6900 series AMD cards and have to dissipate more heat as a result.

In the Hexus review the 1GHZ GTX560TI was consuming as much power as a GTX470 at load. It seems that the GTX570 was more energy efficient.

You still avoided the fact that the HD6950 1GB cards are launching with non-reference coolers too.

[scaryjim]

If an overclocked GTX560TI matches or exceeds an HD6970 then it is not good news for the GTX570 too.

Agreed, but there will always be people who buy the GTX570, and indeed the 6970, on the basis that it's just "better". Besides, that level of performance is the absolute maximum that can be squeezed out of the GTX560, whereas both the GTX570 and the 6970 could be released in factory overclocked versions that are faster still.

A few people have been commenting in this thread on buying a GTX560 and overclocking the nuts off it to past 1GHZ. Why not comment on this?

Can't comment on how other people want to throw their money away

Hexus got their 6950 from 800Mhz to 900Mhz, and their GTX560 from 822MHz to 950Mhz, which suggests that the GTX560 has a little more headroom (15.5% v 12.5%). But I'll reiterate, I'm interested in out of the box performance, and there are a great many more factory overclocked GTX560s available...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

A
Hexus got their 6950 from 800Mhz to 900Mhz, and their GTX560 from 822MHz to 950Mhz, which suggests that the GTX560 has a little more headroom (15.5% v 12.5%). But I'll reiterate, I'm interested in out of the box performance, and there are a great many more factory overclocked GTX560s available...

I had a quick scout around and there seems to be some more highly clocked HD6950 1GB cards on the horizon.

[Bhavv]

The reason you need a heftier cooler in the first place is because the Nvidia cards have to be massively overclocked in the first place to exceed the AMD cards and have to dissipate more heat as a result.

In the Hexus review the 1GHZ GTX560TI was consuming as much power as a GTX470 at load. It seems that the GTX570 was more energy efficient.

You still avoided the fact that the HD6950 1GB cards are launching with non-reference coolers too.

My reference cooled ATI 5770s ran far far hotter and louder when overclocked than either my MSI 460s or 560s do, and those were meant to be low - mid end cards.

Power consumption results for these cards are all over the place. Some reviews show the GTX 560s being very efficient, while others show them consuming even more power than a GTX 570. I'll make an informed judgement that the real power consumption is between that of a GTX 460 and 570, and I'm really not bothered by that much.

As for the 1 Gb 6950s with non reference coolers, show me where I can buy one from? OCUK, Scan, Novatech, Ebuyer, or Dabs only thanks.

I had a quick scout around and there seems to be some more highly clocked HD6950 1GB cards on the horizon.

The GTX 560s are capable of running over 1000 Mhz with a voltage increase, I havnt seen any of AMD's current gen capable of that yet. Most of them seem to max out at 950 at the most.

[scaryjim]

I had a quick scout around and there seems to be some more highly clocked HD6950 1GB cards on the horizon.

"On the horizon"'s great, but what if I have £200 to spend on a graphics card *today*? Are you going to recommend a 6870 over a GTX560?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

My reference cooled ATI 5770s ran far far hotter and louder when overclocked than either my MSI 460s or 560s do, and those were meant to be low - mid end cards.

Power consumption results for these cards are all over the place. Some reviews show the GTX 560s being very efficient, while others show them consuming even more power than a GTX 570. I'll make an informed judgement that the real power consumption is between that of a GTX 460 and 570, and I'm really not bothered by that much.

As for the 1 Gb 6950s with non reference coolers, show me where I can buy one from? OCUK, Scan, Novatech, Ebuyer, or Dabs only thanks.


The GTX 560s are capable of running over 1000 Mhz with a voltage increase, I havnt seen any of AMD's current gen capable of that yet. Most of them seem to max out at 950 at the most.

That explains it then. You have a bad experience with an AMD product and it instantly means all of their products are crap.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

"On the horizon"'s great, but what if I have £200 to spend on a graphics card *today*? Are you going to recommend a 6870 over a GTX560?

No,I would ask them to look at the HD6950 1GB too:

http://www.dabs.com/products/xfx-ati...product+search

I generally tell people to look at both companies products and I know some mates will go only for Nvidia due to better Linux drivers.

The HD6870 is poor value for money as it should have stayed at under £180 but has had price inflation for some reason. If you can get one for around £170 then it is fine.

The HD6870 has gotten more expensive since launch.

Since you can get a GTX460 1GB,HD6850 1GB or an HD5850 for under £160 these are better value. The GTX460 1GB is only £125 at Ebuyer too.

Considering that you want to go with stock performance only - I wonder how the pre-overclocked GTX460 1GB cards fair against the cheaper GTX560 cards?

[Bhavv]

That explains it then. You have a bad experience with an AMD product and it instantly means all of their products are crap.

Did I say that? I said reference coolers are crap which they are, on both ATI and Nvidia cards.

I've used Xfire 3850s, 4850s, 4870s and 5770s before changing over to the GTX 460s and 560s. The 5770s were the only Reference cooled cards out of the lot, and noisiest / hottest ones too.

I do however strongly feel that ATI's 6800 / 6900 range is no where near as good as it should have been compared to their HD 5000 range.

No,I would ask them to look at the HD6950 1GB too:

http://www.dabs.com/products/xfx-ati...product+search

Its not a non reference MSI or Asus, so I wouldnt consider it regardless of being an ATI or Nvidia card. Why pay £200 for a reference design when I can have a superior custom designed card with similar performance plus warranty covered overclocking and voltage tweaking at the same price?

XFX have also built up a bad reputation for their Warranty support on several forums I read, its not a brand I would consider buying.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I do however strongly feel that ATI's 6800 / 6900 range is no where near as good as it should have been compared to their HD 5000 range.

With the HD6900 series I agree as the HD5870 was only slightly slower. The major improvement that the HD6900 series is that AMD fixed(mostly) their tessalation performance.

I don't agree with you about the HD6800 series though. The cards in the UK are overpriced if you consider the launch pricing. However,the HD6850 1GB at around £130 and the HD6870 1GB at around £170 made sense since they had most of the performance of the HD5850 and HD5870 at a lower price point. These cards were meant to superside the HD5770 and HD5830 at under £180.

Remember the HD6850 and HD6870 were more akin to an HD6750 and HD6770 but AMD bumped up the numbering system.

[Bhavv]

Yea but by the time the HD 6800s came out, I already had 460s. Before the 1 Gb 6950 has been released (Asus, MSI, Gigabyte custom cooled ones are the only brands I will buy btw), the MSI Twinfrozr 560 was already on Scan for £203.

ATI missed their chance both times, and none of the 6800s / 6900s available so far have been custom cooled other than the £259 MSI I linked to above. I believe that this is because ATI dont let their AIB's make custom cooled cards right away, whereas with the GTX 460 / 560 there were brilliant custom cooled versions available from launch day, and without a hefty price premium as there is on ATI cards.

I upgrade and sell each gen because I like doing so, and make enough back on my old cards to afford the new.

[Bhavv]

Heres a review which puts the 1 Ghz Gigabyte SOC against a 2 Gb 6950 @ 980 / 6000 speeds.

The GTX 560 still wins in the majority of tests:

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/379...d/index21.html

And it seems that the 6950 was clocked as far as it will go, whereas the GTX 560s can still be pushed a bit further than 1 Ghz.

I just have to wait for an updated afterburner that supports overvolting these new cards, I'm waiting for a reply from MSI support about it.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Heres a review which puts the 1 Ghz Gigabyte SOC against a 2 Gb 6950 @ 980 / 6000 speeds.

The GTX 560 still wins in the majority of tests:

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/379...d/index21.html

And it seems that the 6950 was clocked as far as it will go, whereas the GTX 560s can still be pushed a bit further than 1 Ghz.

I just have to wait for an updated afterburner that supports overvolting these new cards, I'm waiting for a reply from MSI support about it.

Interesting choice of games. So the GTX560 tends to do better in TWIMTBP games and the HD6950 in non-TWIMTBP games. You only have to look at a 765MHZ GTX460 beating an HD6950 in Lost Planet 2 and H.A.W.X. 2 and matching it in most cases with FarCry2.

There seems to be no Metro2033 and Stalker.

Here is another review of the 1GHZ GTX560 1GB:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/20293/7