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Thread: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

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    680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Lo guys and girls. Advice needed if anyone has some exp or knowledge please. I've been running a w/c'd 5970 2GB for a couple of years now and for the first time BF3 is proving a little challenging with all ULTRA eye candy at my native res of
    2560 x 1600. I think I would rather avoid SLI/CF this time and the 7970 3GB didnt look quite good enough - but now the 680GTX 2GB has come along I am hoping that this will be the big step up I am looking for. So my question is will this card run BF3 smoothly with all eye candy at my native res?
    I am looking to stick with a w/c card so probably the EVGA :

    EVGA 2GB GeForce GTX 680 Hydro Copper

    There is also the 4GB Palit card = but no option to w/c and as my loop is designed to accomadate a g/c i'd rather not have an air cooled solution and the additional noise it brings with it. BUT if the extra VRAM would make a big difference at this res I would consider it - or wait for a factory w/c'd 4GB card to arrive (I'd rather not fit the block myself this time, i've had a baby since the mammoth task of building my wc'd rig so time is not on my side at all any more!!!!!!)

    Opinions would be very well received
    Last edited by Syd; 22-04-2012 at 06:03 PM.





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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Wait until the end of the year as the second generation AMD and Nvidia 28NM cards will be out by then and hopefully the bang for buck would have increased by then. There is noise that Nvidia will eventually release cards based on the GK110.

    Also,it is hard to say whether the 4GB will make much difference with the GTX680 if it is more bandwidth limited than VRAM limited.

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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Hi Cat - do I take it that you are implying that there isn't a big enough gain with a 680 over my existing card for the investment required?





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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Syd View Post
    Hi Cat - do I take it that you are implying that there isn't a big enough gain with a 680 over my existing card for the investment required?
    A few things with BF3:
    1.)On Ultra settings it seems 1.5GB is the minimum amount you need and the HD5970 2GB only has 1GB per GPU. You are hitting a VRAM limitation on top of any Crossfire scaling losses.
    2.)BF3 testing in reviews is SP only as it is repeatable. Depending on the scene tested the difference between the HD7970 3GB and GTX680 2GB varies. The Going Hunting level(basically not much happens) shows the greatest performance gain for the GTX680 and other more intense scenes are smaller. However,the GTX680 is faster in all cases,but not always massively so.
    3.)MP testing indicates the GTX680 is ahead but the problem in this case is that it is not repeatable,so how much better is hard to quantify with figures.

    You can see the VRAM issue in the TPU review:

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...GTX_680/9.html

    At 1920X1080 the GTX680 is not even 20% faster in the scene tested than an HD5970,yet at 2560X1600 performance collapses when AA is used. However,look how close the GTX680 and HD7970 are in the scene tested.

    The TechReport uses another scene:

    http://techreport.com/articles.x/22653/10

    Anandtech is on review which uses Going Hunting and the difference is closer to around 25% or thereabouts.

    There are a few things you need to also consider:
    1.)The HD7970 3GB has had price cuts and cards can be had for around £350 to £360 if you shop around. OcUK were doing a VTX HD7970 3GB recently for around £333 delivered with a 10% off code. The card had a large 125MHZ overclock too(1050MHZ core instead of 925MHZ) and I suspect this would put it very close to a stock clocked GTX680 in BF3 but at the expense of higher load power consumption.
    2.)AMD admitted even before the GTX680 that they clocked the HD7970 too low and one chap(Dave Baumann) said they would be looking at clockspeeds again. This hints that a faster clocked model is on the way.
    3.)28NM production is expensive(Nvidia were complaining about this). However,prices will drop over the next few months as supply improves.
    4.)This should mean the HD7970 3GB will probably drop closer to £300 IMHO over the next few months and no doubt so will the GTX680. I suspect more pre-overclocked models will be released of both cards at standard prices as production moves to more non-reference models. You are already seeing this with the HD7970 3GB.
    5.)The original GK100 was cancelled and replaced by the GK110. With the relative success of the GK104,this is most likely going to be released as the GTX780 or GTX685 at the end of the year to counter the new AMD cards.
    6.)AMD tends to release new cards at the end of the year,and there should be a Tahiti XT sucessor around Christmas time or thereabouts.

    If I had an HD5970 I would either "put up" with the HD5970 for the second generation cards,or pick up one of the current cards relatively cheaply at that time.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 22-04-2012 at 06:50 PM.

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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    A few things with BF3:
    1.)On Ultra settings it seems 1.5GB is the minimum amount you need and the HD5970 2GB only has 1GB per GPU. You are hitting a VRAM limitation on top of any Crossfire scaling losses.
    2.)BF3 testing in reviews is SP only as it is repeatable. Depending on the scene tested the difference between the HD7970 3GB and GTX680 2GB varies. The Going Hunting level(basically not much happens) shows the greatest performance gain for the GTX680 and other more intense scenes are smaller. However,the GTX680 is faster in all cases,but not always massively so.
    3.)MP testing indicates the GTX680 is ahead but the problem in this case is that it is not repeatable,so how much better is hard to quantify with figures.

    You can see the VRAM issue in the TPU review:

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...GTX_680/9.html

    At 1920X1080 the GTX680 is not even 20% faster in the scene tested than an HD5970,yet at 2560X1600 performance collapses when AA is used. However,look how close the GTX680 and HD7970 are in the scene tested.

    The TechReport uses another scene:

    http://techreport.com/articles.x/22653/10

    Anandtech is on review which uses Going Hunting and the difference is closer to around 25% or thereabouts.

    There are a few things you need to also consider:
    1.)The HD7970 3GB has had price cuts and cards can be had for around £350 to £360 if you shop around. OcUK were doing a VTX HD7970 3GB recently for around £333 delivered with a 10% off code. The card had a large 125MHZ overclock too(1050MHZ core instead of 925MHZ) and I suspect this would put it very close to a stock clocked GTX680 in BF3 but at the expense of higher load power consumption.
    2.)AMD admitted even before the GTX680 that they clocked the HD7970 too low and one chap(Dave Baumann) said they would be looking at clockspeeds again. This hints that a faster clocked model is on the way.
    3.)28NM production is expensive(Nvidia were complaining about this). However,prices will drop over the next few months as supply improves.
    4.)This should mean the HD7970 3GB will probably drop closer to £300 IMHO over the next few months and no doubt so will the GTX680. I suspect more pre-overclocked models will be released of both cards at standard prices as production moves to more non-reference models. You are already seeing this with the HD7970 3GB.
    5.)The original GK100 was cancelled and replaced by the GK110. With the relative success of the GK104,this is most likely going to be released as the GTX780 or GTX685 at the end of the year to counter the new AMD cards.
    6.)AMD tends to release new cards at the end of the year,and there should be a Tahiti XT sucessor around Christmas time or thereabouts.

    If I had an HD5970 I would either "put up" with the HD5970 for the second generation cards,or pick up one of the current cards relatively cheaply at that time.
    Thanks Cat - that's a very thorough response, will try and hold off - out of interest, IF i did go for an upgrade to either an o'c'd and water cooled 6970 or 680 how much real world difference do you think I should expect over my 5970 ? And is there a particular option in the graphics setup of BF3 that is particularily likely to make it constantly crash to desktop !! (usually in 64 player metro!!)





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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    The main advantage of the HD6970 2GB(I assume this is not a typo) and the GTX680 2GB is the fact at your resolution they have more VRAM. If your HD5970 had 4GB of total VRAM,ie, 2GB per GPU I suspect you would be doing much better in BF3. A GTX680 would be a decent jump up but I just get the niggling feeling that the second generation high end 28NM cards will be the ones you probably should get,if you don't want to go the multi-GPU route especially since you probably have around a £400 to £500 budget too.

    The thing is that the GTX680 is less of a jump from the GTX580 then the GTX480 was when compared to the GTX285,if the TPU numbers are to be believed:

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...TX_680/27.html

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N..._Fermi/32.html

    The HD7970 was a bigger jump from the HD6970 even although it was priced too high:

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7970/28.html

    This is why I think,if you are spending a decent amount of money,I would be going for a second generation card or waiting for the current prices to drop a decent amount.

    Have you tried running the game at high instead of Ultra and using a slightly lower resolution like 1920X1200??

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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Thanks Cat - the 6970 would be 3GB.... And no I haven't tried dropping the res, I have tried dropping settings to high, but being greedy I just prefer the look of Ultra !! I think I just need to get used to settings on high. I'm thinking that it would look better at full res with high settings rather than lower res at Ultra ? Need to try it out!!





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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    The HD7970 is 3GB,the HD6970 is 2GB!!

    I would definitely try mucking around with the settings to see if you can improve performance.

    However,you should still be able to get a reasonable amount for your HD5970:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/csc/i.html?LH_...&_sop=15&_sc=1

    I suppose this would be another consider if you were to upgrade now.

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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    The HD7970 is 3GB,the HD6970 is 2GB!!

    I would definitely try mucking around with the settings to see if you can improve performance.

    However,you should still be able to get a reasonable amount for your HD5970:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/csc/i.html?LH_...&_sop=15&_sc=1

    I suppose this would be another consider if you were to upgrade now.
    Doh x 2

    I meant a 7970 3GB !!

    Pointless going to a 6970

    The debate for me was 680GTX 2GB or 7970 3GB or wait.............





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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Hehe - looking at those listings I could always buy another 5970 and CF them

    OOI how much do we think the 590 replacement will be ?





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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    You would hit the VRAM issue still. If the HD5970 had 4GB in total instead of 2GB you would have 2GB per GPU instead of 1GB ATM.

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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    BF3 Servers have a few bugs they need to iron out, including your problem, When playing BFs3 it crashs out to Desktop sometimes with msg ; Game Sessions was removed from Server. this is a known issue EA/DICE are aware of. i think Cats right with your setup you might as well wait, you wont notice a massive differeance unless they came out with the GTX 690.

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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace007 View Post
    BF3 Servers have a few bugs they need to iron out, including your problem, When playing BFs3 it crashs out to Desktop sometimes with msg ; Game Sessions was removed from Server. this is a known issue EA/DICE are aware of. i think Cats right with your setup you might as well wait, you wont notice a massive differeance unless they came out with the GTX 690.
    Thanks for the input - i'm going to wait and see what happens with the 690 etc.

    BTW my messages are often direct X related - running out of memory - but after maybe 45 - 60 mins of playing ? Any ideas?





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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Even with 2 x GTX580s I still cannot run @ full settings and still get 60fps.

    The best I can manage is everything ultra, 16xAF, all AA off and ambient occlusion set to SSAO.

    Adding HBAO or AA pushes the VRAM usage over 1.5GB per GPU.

    I still get occasional dips to 50ish FPS but they are rare.

    I cannot stand running games at anything but the native resolution of the monitor, so I prefer to turn settings down rather then the resolution. I ran for quite some time on high with no ambient occlusion or AA (until I got the second 580) and did notice the IQ differences going to ultra. Must say, even without AA or HBAO it now looks incredible....and runs very smooth.

    As CAT says, wait for the GK110 and anything AMD might have up their sleeve as for running at 2560x1600 you would need 2 GTX680s......that's £800......really not worth it IMHO.
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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Syd View Post
    BTW my messages are often direct X related - running out of memory - but after maybe 45 - 60 mins of playing ? Any ideas?
    Sounds like either a memory leak or the way the drivers are handling running out of VRAM.
    Have you kept an eye on the memory usage of the BF3.exe? It is a 32bit app (and is not LMA enabled AFAIK), so the largest working set it should be able to use is 2GB (you can see this from resmon.exe).

    If that is not hitting 2GB when the error hits, then I would guess it's GPU/driver related.......if so turn down/off AA/ambient occlusion/texture quality and test again.

    My gut feeling is GPU as I also have a similar system (12GB on an X58) and have not once had that issue. I never get disconnected from a game unless the connection has dropped.
    Main PC: Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 3960X@4.5GHz / Antec H1200 Pro / 32GB DDR3-1866 Quad Channel / Sapphire Fury X / Areca 1680 / 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Gold 2 / Corsair 600T / 2x Dell 3007 / 4 x 250GB SSD + 2 x 80GB SSD / 4 x 1TB HDD (RAID 10) / Windows 10 Pro, Yosemite & Ubuntu
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  17. #16
    Syd
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    Hanging on the Edge Syd's Avatar
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    Re: 680GTX a big step up from 5970 ???????

    Thanks Shaithis - you were the one that helped me convince myself to go 30" all those years ago, so it's fitting that you should attempt to help me out again
    I have been running post applied AA and HBAO - all other settings at high, maybe i'm asking too much of my aging beast!
    Time to convince myself I need a 690GTX lol !! - not sure a 650w psu will manage to run it though, so i'd have to sell a lung and a kidney





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