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Thread: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

  1. #1
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    As the Quadro k6000:

    http://techreport.com/news/25119/big...-graphics-card

    Seems kind of a shame they had to bin/disable bits in all the variants until now. Maybe if competition was stronger they would have pushed to fix the card sooner. Like Intel's high end chips, we'll probably never get the full potential cards in the home market

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    tbh I suspect they just didn't have the yields to do it, and I doubt they could push a fix any quicker than they have. Doesn't feel like that long since the first working silicon for GK110 was coming out (hmmm, checking back official release for Tesla K20 was November last year, so 8 months ago - Titan didn't land until this Feb though). Given the increase in working silicon and reduced tdp this looks like a respin or different stepping, potentially (although we don't know the clock speeds, so it could just be lower clocked to keep TDP in check). I wouldn't think 6 - 8 months was an unreasonable time for that kind of turn around...

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    If it's a turn around, indeed. But GK110 is itself a fixing of GK100, which never came out, so you could think of it as finally fixing GK100 all that time ago. That they didn't need a fully working part to thrash the competition is impressive, and meant there wasn't any rush.

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    Moderator chuckskull's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    That they didn't need a fully working part to thrash the competition is impressive, and meant there wasn't any rush.
    Yeah. It has seemed like they're only doing enough to one up AMD and not much more in the discrete market, while throwing money at mobile stuff. Sensible I suppose, but it has left the GPU market feeling a lot more stagnant than it has in a while.

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    Senior Member Spreadie's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    tbh I suspect they just didn't have the yields to do it, and I doubt they could push a fix any quicker than they have. Doesn't feel like that long since the first working silicon for GK110 was coming out (hmmm, checking back official release for Tesla K20 was November last year, so 8 months ago - Titan didn't land until this Feb though). Given the increase in working silicon and reduced tdp this looks like a respin or different stepping, potentially (although we don't know the clock speeds, so it could just be lower clocked to keep TDP in check). I wouldn't think 6 - 8 months was an unreasonable time for that kind of turn around...
    Does that mean the Titan was an unintentional consequence of, and a way to monetise, low GK110 yields? Kind of "when life gives you lemons... make lemonade"?

    It would explain why some tech journos were saying, back in January, no major GPU releases were expected until Q4 2013.

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    Senior Member Pob255's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    the GK110 is sounding a bit like the GF100 where again nvidia had big production and yield issues, the whole 500 series was basically what the 400 series was supposed to be if they had it working right.

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    Headless Chicken Terbinator's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pob255 View Post
    the GK110 is sounding a bit like the GF100 where again nvidia had big production and yield issues, the whole 500 series was basically what the 400 series was supposed to be if they had it working right.
    The only difference is the GF series was rotten all the way down.
    Kalniel: "Nice review Tarinder - would it be possible to get a picture of the case when the components are installed (with the side off obviously)?"
    CAT-THE-FIFTH: "The Antec 300 is a case which has an understated and clean appearance which many people like. Not everyone is into e-peen looking computers which look like a cross between the imagination of a hyperactive 10 year old and a Frog."
    TKPeters: "Off to AVForum better Deal - £20+Vat for Free Shipping @ Scan"
    for all intents it seems to be the same card minus some gays name on it and a shielded cover ? with OEM added to it - GoNz0.

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckskull View Post
    Yeah. It has seemed like they're only doing enough to one up AMD and not much more in the discrete market, while throwing money at mobile stuff. Sensible I suppose, but it has left the GPU market feeling a lot more stagnant than it has in a while.
    They have only one-upped AMD when they release a Tegra-3 with a 220W TDP for £700. Edit to add: , or someone will think I am serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terbinator View Post
    The only difference is the GF series was rotten all the way down.
    Seems a bit harsh, the GTX460 was really good in its day, mine is still going strong. OK the higher models were rather pants.

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    Headless Chicken Terbinator's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Seems a bit harsh, the GTX460 was really good in its day, mine is still going strong. OK the higher models were rather pants.
    What i mant was the 460, for example, was still only 336 cores rather than the 384 it should have been (fixed with the 560Ti). Only the 108 was the full chip IIRC?
    Kalniel: "Nice review Tarinder - would it be possible to get a picture of the case when the components are installed (with the side off obviously)?"
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    TKPeters: "Off to AVForum better Deal - £20+Vat for Free Shipping @ Scan"
    for all intents it seems to be the same card minus some gays name on it and a shielded cover ? with OEM added to it - GoNz0.

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Terbinator View Post
    What i mant was the 460, for example, was still only 336 cores rather than the 384 it should have been (fixed with the 560Ti). Only the 108 was the full chip IIRC?
    But that is normal for any large repetitive structure chip, and in the decades I have been in IT it always has been so. Your hard drive has plenty of spare sectors just in case it needs to map some out. Your ram chips have spare lines of ram to swap for defective ones. I believe the cache in CPUs is the same (hence both Intel and AMD happily play with cache sizes on their lower end parts, the mechanisms to do that have to be in there).

    That works really well for CPUs, as the actual core isn't that large. If you get a defect in a CPU, it is likely to be in an L1 or L2 cache line as the actual area used for computation isn't that big. If you have a couple of spare lines so you can map around a cache defect, then yay you just saved your duff CPU core. GPUs are way more compute heavy, so silicon defects are more likely to be in something critical.

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    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    It is a 551MM2 chip against one which is 389MM2,or nearly 42% larger. It should ouperform the competition anyway based on how many transistors which have been thrown at it.

    This part is being released into the professional market which is nothing to do with one upmanship with AMD,where Nvidia has a large percentage of the market anyway. Its not even trying to combat the Intel MIC parts since it is not a Tesla part.

    If Nvidia had fully enabled parts in volume they would have released them,if not at a higher price.

    If that is the case the K20X would have all functioning units anyway,which it didn't which means yield issues.

    So it means its taken since the end of last year,for yields on a fully enabled 551MM2 part to be sufficiently good enough for it to be sold.

    Another issue is this has much lower DP performance(1/24 against 1/3) than the K20X and is in line with more consumer parts. So unless a replacement for the K20X comes out soon with 2880 shaders,this means its not a fully enabled part,and could be part of the reason the TDP is also lower.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 24-07-2013 at 04:27 PM.

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    Headless Chicken Terbinator's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    But that is normal for any large repetitive structure chip...
    Of course it is, but Nvidia got it mostly right off the bat with Kelper relative to Fermi - that's what i was getting at. Their Kepler line-up wasn't as bigger salvage job like Fermi was.The GK104 came along with all 1536SP intact -the same couldn't be said for the 'smaller' GF104 and down.
    Kalniel: "Nice review Tarinder - would it be possible to get a picture of the case when the components are installed (with the side off obviously)?"
    CAT-THE-FIFTH: "The Antec 300 is a case which has an understated and clean appearance which many people like. Not everyone is into e-peen looking computers which look like a cross between the imagination of a hyperactive 10 year old and a Frog."
    TKPeters: "Off to AVForum better Deal - £20+Vat for Free Shipping @ Scan"
    for all intents it seems to be the same card minus some gays name on it and a shielded cover ? with OEM added to it - GoNz0.

  13. #13
    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Terbinator View Post
    Of course it is, but Nvidia got it mostly right off the bat with Kelper relative to Fermi - that's what i was getting at. Their Kepler line-up wasn't as bigger salvage job like Fermi was.The GK104 came along with all 1536SP intact -the same couldn't be said for the 'smaller' GF104 and down.
    It didn't matter much for Nvidia though. They bought Fermi per complete chip unlike Kepler which was per wafer.

    So TSMC shouldered most of the costs for poor yields.

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    Senior Member Pob255's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    That's part of what I mean, the 500 series was mainly the same chips as the 400 series, there was some tweaking on the chip end but mainly on the fab end to improve the yields.
    in part it was issues with the fab and in part it was issues with nvidia's design when used in that fab process, which is why the tweaked design of the 500 series gave far better results.
    ati/amd have (or did in the past) used a current generation midrange card to test a new fab on, to find out the limitations of a new process before starting the top end next generation, nvidia just seem to throw their latest top end design onto the latest fab and expect the manufactures to fix the problems, they also like to milk a chip for all they can, not that I blame them for that, epically when they keep making such good chips.
    The fact that the GK110 is such a good chip that the current top end gaming card is the titan, which is a binned gk110, really shows what a powerful chip it is.

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    Headless Chicken Terbinator's Avatar
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    Re: nVidia finally release fully working GK110 (titan etc.)

    On a pure architecture side AT had a page about the Kepler IMC and how it was an engineering feat they got to run @6GHz from their second (arguably third?) run with GDDR5. They never did a follow up piece on it, i'm not even sure if there was much more to delve into than what was on the one page, but it would have been interesting to read.
    Kalniel: "Nice review Tarinder - would it be possible to get a picture of the case when the components are installed (with the side off obviously)?"
    CAT-THE-FIFTH: "The Antec 300 is a case which has an understated and clean appearance which many people like. Not everyone is into e-peen looking computers which look like a cross between the imagination of a hyperactive 10 year old and a Frog."
    TKPeters: "Off to AVForum better Deal - £20+Vat for Free Shipping @ Scan"
    for all intents it seems to be the same card minus some gays name on it and a shielded cover ? with OEM added to it - GoNz0.

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