GPU for a short term upgrade on a very old system

[abaxas]

Quick scan of ebay and...

Looks like the 6870 is 'worth' about 35 quid. When a second hand gtx 760 is about 70 quid.

35 quid for double the gpu power...... deffo an worthwhile upgrade.

[malfunction]

Everything sells if the price is right. eBay's best in terms of end price but you'll pay a fair whack in fees (around 15% with eBay and paypal unless there's an offer on - £75 can easily drop down to around £60 after fees and postage) and eBay is full of idiots so it's not the easiest / most relaxing place to sell old kit overall. I don't sell things on eBay often but the past few years I've seen a good 10 to 20% idiot buyers - people wanting to cancel bids straight after the auction, people sending the collect in person price over and then asking you to post it, people claiming stuff never arrived (even though it was signed for).

The for sale forum here isn't that fast moving but it would be a much more relaxing experience than eBay - though you'd probably end up being asked to split everything out rather than sell as a job lot and you'd have to be prepared to haggle.

...so overall, if you've got £500+ burning a hole in your pocket it might be easier to pass the old PC on to your brother.

[scaryjim]

There's always market for old kit, as it's a lot cheaper than building a new rig. A Q6600 + 6870 is still pretty capable, particularly if you only play older games: you'd struggle build a new rig with that performance for less than a couple of hundred pounds, so it's a cheap way to get entry level gaming. Price it sensibly and it shouldn't be too hard to get a passable return on it: given the price people are asking for 6870's, maybe as much as £100 for the lot as a bundle, and certainly £75 - £80. OTOH if you have a friend/relative who'd appreciate a passable gaming rig that's as good a use for it as any

[scaryjim]

... You need more posts to access the for sale forum here ...

OP has > 200 posts, so well past the minimum count, and is currently active on the forums, so more then welcome to flog their old kit in the FS forum

[malfunction]

OP has > 200 posts, so well past the minimum count, and is currently active on the forums, so more then welcome to flog their old kit in the FS forum

Oops - I read the thanks count not the post count.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

But a CPU upgrade is not going to make the game magically more playable,and I have put 200+ hours into the game.

The game can be CPU heavy,but more in the sense it actually uses more threads meaning dual cores with no HT suffer a bit in the game. However,it is more GPU heavy.

At this point you are more GPU limited,and I am going to post this YouTube video for a second time in this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynZaZqZhLig


Here is a person with a Core i5 3570K and an HD6870:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlbiPG-NHqU

In many cases internal scenes can be worse than the external ones in the game.

That person with a Q6600 at 3.2GHZ and a GTX750TI is running the game at 1920X1080 at medium and high textures and is getting 35FPS to 60FPS. So at 1680X1050 it should be less taxing IMHO.



The game will run with 1GB VRAM,but I expect once you turn the settings up,it starts going over 1GB.

I had a Q6600 in a Shuttle with a 975X chipset and still got 3GHZ with it,despite it being a high VID chip and not having much cooling.

If I were the OP,I would get that CPU upto around 3GHZ,get a GTX750TI or a GTX950 and then they can play the game fine. You might get some dips but I even sometimes get them with a Xeon E3 1230 V2/Core i7 3770 and a GTX960 running at 1680X1050. Basically the two worst parts for everybody are Diamond City and the Corvega Assembly Plant.

We have so many new releases towards the end of the year for graphics cards,and things like Zen being released on the CPU side,that this is by the WORST time in like the last 3 years to be doing a system overhaul. We have been on 28nm for over 4 years alone.

Even if going with older tech,I expect cards like the GTX980TI will massively drop in price when Polaris and Pascal will be out - the GTX780TI was beaten by a refresh on the same node in the GTX980,which was a small die chip,and crashed in price from £550 to £250. CPU prices should also be affected by Zen too.

If you intend to not upgrade for a while,then it is worth the wait,if not just for the graphics cards.

[malfunction]

Fair enough as far as the GPU goes, but I'm not convinced the situation will massively change on the CPU front - or at least not enough to make a current mid range CPU purchase look anything like obsolete - or even just look bad value, especially when you take into account that the CPU is only part of the cost of changing platform - a new motherboard and DDR4 is going to be needed either way. I don't have a crystal ball but I doubt a 6600K (or the Kaby Lake equivalent by then) is going to massively drop in price when Zen comes out, though it would be nice to see a mid range overclockable CPU back in the ~£120 range.

[douglasb]

CAT-THE-FIFTH: I did watch the links you posted & was impressed. I'm already at 3Ghz & can definitely get up to at least 3.2 like the video has. Finding another 4gb of RAM may be a challenge though with it being so old but if I can find some at a reasonable cost I'd be happy to add to my current 4gb.
Edit: found these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4GB-2-x-2G...gAAOSwKtVWzg91
Not quite the same as my current which are these - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-TWIN...top+Memory+Kit
They would be fine wouldn't they?

GPU wise I'm planning on spending about £80 plus hopefully £40 from selling my 6870 so I'm looking at, in ascending order of preference: an r7 370, a gtx 750Ti or a gtx 950. Is that a reasonable order to have them?
Any other suggestions for around £120? I'm happy to go for a used card

Edit: basically I'm happy to spend a little bit to squeeze some more life out the system till new GPUs/CPUs are released

[malfunction]

If you're happy to go 2nd hand then you might be able to get the next rung up - a GTX 960 or a Radeon 380 (or a previous version of it) for £120 (though they're 'only' £150 ish new). Obviously the 380 is the latest in a fairly long line of cards from the 7950 / 7970 so in theory there should be a lot of 2nd hand cards available but in practice they seem to hold their price really well.

For reference overclockers.co.uk has 4GB versions of both the 960 and 380 listed for £150 (though you'll pay extra for shipping unless you're a forum member over there):

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus-...gx-379-as.html
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/xfx-r...gx-228-xf.html

I don't think 2GB vs 4GB is going to make a massive difference on those cards for most current games but given the 2GB cards aren't any cheaper I'd get the 4GB version if you can, even if it's for "just in case" and potential resale value.

[malfunction]

Finding another 4gb of RAM may be a challenge though with it being so old but if I can find some at a reasonable cost I'd be happy to add to my current 4gb.

Just to be clear that chart is VRAM (video card RAM) usage not general RAM usage. I'm not sure where the general RAM upgrade bit came in - more than 4GB may help a bit but neither CAT or I mentioned it as a priority for your existing system and if you're looking to restrict budget now and still upgrade the whole PC later it would probably be better to spend the cash on the GPU than on system RAM, though RAM usage may be tight if you have other stuff running in the background (a quick check shows FO4 using ~2.5GB RAM). Really depends on what you want to spend now though - you seem to have gone from putting £500 on the table to £120.

[douglasb]

Just to be clear that chart is VRAM (video card RAM) usage not general RAM usage. I'm not sure where the general RAM upgrade bit came in ... ... Really depends on what you want to spend now though - you seem to have gone from putting £500 on the table to £120.

I know, system RAM I was mentioning since that's what is being used in the video Cat linked (Q6600 @ 3.2Ghz, 8gb ram & a gtx 750Ti).

I know it's a big drop off in potential expenditure but as has been pointed out now is far from the ideal time to be doing a new build hence the money would be better saved for new hardware releases later in the year. Previously I was planning a £500 spend on a gtx 980Ti now as part of a new build later in the year but since it may end up dropping in price or dropping down the performance ladder & therefore potentially not featuring in a new build I'd rather hold off the more expensive purchase & instead spend a little for a smaller improvement in performance to tide me over till nearer the end of the year.

[gupsterg]

Note my Q6600 rig spec in signature, I placed a AMD Tri-X 290 STD edition in it early Q1 15 @ 1080P I'd get stutters and hitches, not due to the GPU but the CPU/platform.

TBH there's probably never a right time to upgrade .

When I decided to build the i5 4690K rig in my signature Q1 15 after the experience of placing a "current" GPU in the Q6600 rig, guess what was around the corner? Skylake.

Then there was also 390/X coming about (I only say this as went AMD again with GPU).

Did Skylake bring features I may have used? no not really.

My i5 4690K (2nd one, I never lost £ between change, savvy buying ) clocked so well did I really miss out waiting for Skylake, no .

I recently got a Fury Tri-X (which unlocked to 3840SP) and also have a Fury X coming; due to a bios mod thread I'm doing on OCN, is it rolling me over vs the the 290X (also did bios mod thread for that), well no not at the res I use it. My 290X clocked to same clocks as a MSI 390X Gaming (1100/1525) plus added some other bios mods to it .

Here is 70hrs+ f@h with it in my Q6600 rig, main f@h window , log window. If you're wondering why the Q6600 is @ 3.4GHz, that's because when I got the i5 it got moved to a el cheapo Fractal Design Core 2300 case, in that case it can do 3.555GHz with the HD5850 but the 290X throws to much heat inside it for me to like the ambient case temp = higher CPU temp.

If you want x and have budget to get it, I say get it and enjoy, the waiting game we can all play TBH.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You can't compare second generation dx12 GPUS coming after 4 years on 28nm to GPUS on that same node,and the fact Zen will be the first new uarch from AMD since 2011.

The OP by the fact they still use a Q6600 and an HD6870 is a person who keeps their hardware for yonks.

IMHO,considering the 2H 2016 are going to have Pascal,Polaris,Zen and Kaby Lake being released and no doubt causing price drops on older parts it makes a lot of sense for the OP to wait.

The R9 290X is a few times faster than an HD6870,so they are far more GPU limited.

Also for slower CPUs,the Nvidia drivers for DX11 tended to do better,as they seem to thread better, so its why I think a GTX750TI or GTX950 should be able to tide the OP over for FO4.

[gupsterg]

The OP by the fact they still use a Q6600 and an HD6870 is a person who keeps their hardware for yonks.

So do, I bought my Q6600 G0 @ release and upgraded Q1 15. I also was on 1680x1050 for ages, only got my first 1080P monitor last year . Only reason I've done some "swaps" since the period of my original build has been some cashback / super prices that came up .

IMHO,considering the 2H 2016 are going to have Pascal,Polaris,Zen and Kaby Lake being released and no doubt causing price drops on older parts it makes a lot of sense for the OP to wait.

Since last year been viewing prices on the i5 4690K (& occasionally i7 4790K) after Skylake they never plummeted. I doubt Skylake will plummet after Kaby Lake. Some were touting Skylake as it, will Kaby Lake be hugely better? I don't think so TBH.

Many on HUK were hoping 290X would be well below £200 when 390X was released, it never really occurred. At most was around ~£220 when they were released and many months later some deals @ £200 via Amazon.fr.

Been also viewing ebay pricing of 290X and still pretty strong IMO, hard to find one =< £150, they still tend to go ~£175.

I was at one point thinking Fury/X was gonna be hugely better (prior it's release) but it isn't IMO. I do hope Polaris is what it's being said it will be, also Zen. I really want AMD to still be around TBH .

[scaryjim]

... I doubt Skylake will plummet after Kaby Lake. ...

No, but it might have to after Zen: that's the big unknown. A new architecture from AMD which is reputed to give a huge IPC boost could suddenly give Intel a headache in the mid to high end of the market they've had to themselves for a long time. AMD can't sell a CPU for much more than ~ £150 at the minute, they don't have the comparative performance, but if Zen is good enough they could start competing in that £150 - £300 enthusiast segment that the OP is likely to be thinking of (particularly since they were talking about getting a 980 Ti), and that could be enough to see prices start falling across the board.

The advances on Polaris aren't even theoretical or rumoured: AMD have shown working Polaris silicon matching GTX 950 performance with power draw > 50W lower. Whilst that won't necessarily translate into huge performance leaps in the higher-grade cards, it's at least an indication that Polaris will be a big advance, and definitely a reason for not buying a high end GPU in the next 6 months.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

So do, I bought my Q6600 G0 @ release and upgraded Q1 15. I also was on 1680x1050 for ages, only got my first 1080P monitor last year . Only reason I've done some "swaps" since the period of my original build has been some cashback / super prices that came up .



Since last year been viewing prices on the i5 4690K (& occasionally i7 4790K) after Skylake they never plummeted. I doubt Skylake will plummet after Kaby Lake. Some were touting Skylake as it, will Kaby Lake be hugely better? I don't think so TBH.

Many on HUK were hoping 290X would be well below £200 when 390X was released, it never really occurred. At most was around ~£220 when they were released and many months later some deals @ £200 via Amazon.fr.

Been also viewing ebay pricing of 290X and still pretty strong IMO, hard to find one =< £150, they still tend to go ~£175.

I was at one point thinking Fury/X was gonna be hugely better (prior it's release) but it isn't IMO. I do hope Polaris is what it's being said it will be, also Zen. I really want AMD to still be around TBH .

Which is not the point - the OP can get away with a graphics card upgrade to run his game and he only has to wait 6 to 9 months for AMD to release Zen.

It's not a simple CPU refresh but a totally new uarch - that's the kind of thing you might see once every 5 years or so.

At the very least it will cause Intel to adjust prices and if it is any good it might be something that suits the OP better.

Plus Kaby Lake will be out too so I expect a few deals on Skylake chips too.

The same goes with the graphics cards. The prices for the GTX780TI tumbled once the GTX980 and GTX970 were released - from £550 to £250.

The R9 290 caused prices of the GTX780 to tumble by £100 plus Nvidia gave away more free games than AMD to sweeten the deal.

Plus AMD is on record saying that they want to bring VR ready cards to under the price point of today. Since most VR systems requires at least R9 290 level performance that means Polaris 11 is going to be better priced.

Even with the R9 390 cards people forget that the 8GB cards were over £300,so there was even a slight price reduction with the cards.

Plus during the time period,you could get R9 290 cards on clearance for under £200.

I also expect cards like the R9 390X,GTX980,maybe even Fury and the GTX980TI to drop in price once the new ones are out.

There is also the question of DX12 performance too - the second generation cards should be better.