Like the fury X - AMD said the lower temps with liquid cooling got them less power consumption.Originally Posted by kompukare
The asus 3080 hexus reviewed ran ~10C cooler and took ~10W less power while performing identically to the MSI one, but there is the possibility that was just silicon quality or it was running a few MHz slower
Hi Cat - many thanks for setting this thread up - good on you!
Thanks!
Helios451 (22-09-2020)
Yeah, thanks Cat very useful
Still no anandtech reviews? Nvidia crossed them from the christmas card list or something?
it's not been the same of late. Since Anand left it just felt different. More twitter responses than in-depth breakdowns sometimes. I used to visit it a lot, now less frequently.
@CatV - the 3090 reviews are starting to appear. Hexus one to add to the AIB list. https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graph...090-gaming-oc/
Also would it make sense to add the name of the card that is being reviewed (for AIB mainly) to help people who are searching of reviews for a particular maunfacturer+ model?
I updated the OcUK reviews thread and just updated the Hexus one. I think you also have not looked at the first two posts - I separated out the FE and AIB reviews at the start.
Apparently, Ryan Smith lives in Oregon near the wildfires.
yes but all I see is a list of curtailed hyperlinks, not the names/models of the cards being reviewed.
I listed them by AIB - what are you going on about?? The second post is listed by AIB. The first post is FE only. Each AIB only has one model currently. I already separated the AIB models by maker,the FE models,the video reviews per channel,etc. That is enough separation.
I am not going to wasting more time with formatting them by model name per AIB,which I have never done for any GPU review thread. It makes no sense especially if over the next few months,Asus,etc release 25 slightly different models,which are essentially the same. There won't be enough space on the page,and honestly I would get bored to tears.
I am not going to waste more of my time for GPUs which I won't be buying,because they are stupidly expensive,and are spaceheaters to boot. Also the dumbass tiered launching of this idiotic launch,means I have to keep updating the post every few days,and I will have to do it for the RTX3070,RTX3070TI,the RTX3080 20GB,etc.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 25-09-2020 at 12:16 AM.
Sry it needed a page refresh. Looked different to me but must be a hangover from earlier. I can see the splitting now.
GN review of the 3090 made me chuckle.
Seems there is some instability on some cards and that Igor has been digging:
https://www.igorslab.de/en/what-real...0-andrtx-3090/
https://www.igorslab.de/was-wirklich...-investigativ/
Super-secrecy didn't help (Igor was one of the ones before launch saying the board partners only had this nvpower hog software rather than drivers to test their cards), but in the end the bill of material guide was vague too and seems to have said that they can / could MLCC or POSCAP capacitors...
Looks like the Asus tax is justified for once as Igor points they used all MLCCs. Zotac and Gigabyte are the penny pinchers once again.
So thanks to the W1zzard over at TPU, we can see who did and didn't:
all MLCCs:
two MLCCs:
one MLCCs:
no MLCCs:
CAT-THE-FIFTH (26-09-2020),ik9000 (25-09-2020)
I was reading in to this last night but Scans photos have EVGA, Asus and MSI all having the same setup on their stock photos.
EVGA have put out a Tweet mentioning they caught this problem before shipping production cards but not review cards.
JayZTwoCents had people message him with the same model cards and a different capacitor setup and varying levels of bugs.
Hold off - like you had a choice - for now seems to be the best advice.
Kalniel: "Nice review Tarinder - would it be possible to get a picture of the case when the components are installed (with the side off obviously)?"
CAT-THE-FIFTH: "The Antec 300 is a case which has an understated and clean appearance which many people like. Not everyone is into e-peen looking computers which look like a cross between the imagination of a hyperactive 10 year old and a Frog."
TKPeters: "Off to AVForum better Deal - £20+Vat for Free Shipping @ Scan"
for all intents it seems to be the same card minus some gays name on it and a shielded cover ? with OEM added to it - GoNz0.
Right, reading some of the comments on other forums, component penny-pinching might not be the reason as the bigger caps are more expensive. Or at least they are if they are the solid tantalum ones; there was someone saying that caps which look like POSCAP but are cheaper.
So, if this is the issue (a lot of doubt on other forums, but the EVGA statement does point to it being true), then it looks more something which should have been noticed by testing. And since the AIBs only had dummy drivers and the Nvidia power-hog tool, this looks like being squarely Nvidia's fault. That is the whole point of making a reference PCBs after all.
I saw some PCB pictures and it looks like some of the components might have been hand soldered.
EVGA makes a statement:
https://forums.evga.com/Message-abou...-m3095238.aspx
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comm...ities/g6k2dl6/Hi all,
Recently there has been some discussion about the EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 series.
During our mass production QC testing we discovered a full 6 POSCAPs solution cannot pass the real world applications testing. It took almost a week of R&D effort to find the cause and reduce the POSCAPs to 4 and add 20 MLCC caps prior to shipping production boards, this is why the EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 series was delayed at launch. There were no 6 POSCAP production EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 boards shipped.
But, due to the time crunch, some of the reviewers were sent a pre-production version with 6 POSCAP’s, we are working with those reviewers directly to replace their boards with production versions.
EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 series with 5 POSCAPs + 10 MLCC solution is matched with the XC3 spec without issues.
Also note that we have updated the product pictures at EVGA.com to reflect the production components that shipped to gamers and enthusiasts since day 1 of product launch.
Once you receive the card you can compare for yourself, EVGA stands behind its products!
Thanks
EVGA
So, as an Electronics Engineer and PCB Designer I feel I have to react here.
The point that Igor makes about improper power design causing instability is a very plausible one. Especially with first production runs where it indeed could be the case that they did not have the time/equipment/driver etc to do proper design verification.
However, concluding from this that a POSCAP = bad and MLCC = good is waaay to harsh and a conclusion you cannot make.
Both POSCAPS (or any other 'solid polymer caps' and MLCC's have there own characteristics and use cases.
Some (not all) are ('+' = pos, '-' = neg):
MLCC:
+ cheap
+ small
+ high voltage rating in small package
+ high current rating
+ high temperature rating
+ high capacitance in small package
+ good at high frequencies
- prone to cracking
- prone to piezo effect
- bad temperature characteristics
- DC bias (capacitance changes a lot under different voltages)
POSCAP:
- more expensive
- bigger
- lower voltage rating
+ high current rating
+ high temperature rating
- less good at high frequencies
+ mechanically very strong (no MLCC cracking)
+ not prone to piezo effect
+ very stable over temperature
+ no DC bias (capacitance very stable at different voltages)
As you can see, both have there strengths and weaknesses and one is not particularly better or worse then the other. It all depends.
In this case, most of these 3080 and 3090 boards may use the same GPU (with its requirements) but they also have very different power circuits driving the chips on the cards.
Each power solution has its own characteristics and behavior and thus its own requirements in terms of capacitors used.
Thus, you cannot simply say: I want the card with only MLCC's because that is a good design.
It is far more likely they just could/would not have enough time and/or resources to properly verify their designs and thus where not able to do proper adjustments to their initial component choices.
This will very likely work itself out in time. For now, just buy the card that you like and if it fails, simply claim warranty. Let them fix the problem and down draw to many conclusions based on incomplete information and (educated) guess work.
Edit: it seems EVGA basically confirmed this by saying: " But, due to the time crunch, some of the reviewers were sent a pre-production version with 6 POSCAP’s, we are working with those reviewers directly to replace their boards with production versions.EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 series with 5 POSCAPs + 10 MLCC solution is matched with the XC3 spec without issues. "
Edit 2: Also, this could be the reason Asus is 'late' whith there cards
Edit 3: it seems Gigabyte uses non-MLCC parts but does not have problems, confirming the point you cant simply judge based on capacitor type and count.
Edit 4: now that JayzTwoCents has done a video about it it all goes wild in that thread as well
Buildzoid chimes in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPFKS8jNNh0
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