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Thread: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I'm still not convinced that will fly.

    If DLSS 3 is as good as Nvidia say it is, and it requires a 4000 series board, then who the heck is going to buy the old stuff unless it is at fire sale prices? The low end cards maybe, but for the money a 3080 costs I don't want to see half the tick boxes empty.
    But do nVidia still have 3080's? AiBs, yeah but .... nVidia themseves? Because if they don't, their history suggests they may adopt a "not our problem" attitude over AiB stock levels, which might help explain why they released what they did. And maybe even EVGA quitting GPUs.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    I don't like DLSS3. I mean, it's a brilliant way to nearly double the frame rate, if that's the primary concern, but I don't like it when my TV interpolates frames and I doubt I'll like DLSS3's output for similar reasons.

    Which leaves me to ask, if they are claiming nearly double performance, and DLSS3 nearly doubles performance.. what's the real gain this generation? I'm sure there is some, but it's not the giant leap that pricing seems to indicate.

    I think they've just got too much stock of the 3000 series floating around to target it with similar price points - they know there's an early adopter fee and the first batch are always scalped so I don't blame them at all for selling high initially. But when the competition comes out they'd better reduce pretty sharpish.
    It might depend, in part at least, on the TV. Versus monitors? And, on individual's perception, preferences and even maybe eyesight. It's part of wat I was getting at in another thread when I said we have a very limited amount of performane data, so far. nVidia will (as would any company) want to present things in the best light, and IIRC they said 2x-4x of previous generation but .... by what yardstick, in what games or use case, and measured how?

    Until we see third party testing, from (relatively) trusted sites, all we having have is marketing puff.

    It's like a bank saying they pay "average" interest of x%. As I asked my bank, loads of years ago (when they tried to upsell me onto a new account type), which "average" .... mean, median or mode? If they mean "mean" (and they probably did) is that arithmetic, geometric or harmonic? Weighted or unweighted? If weighted, weighted how? That was about when the cashier called her manager.

    And so on. Much the same applies to performance - unless we know in relation to what, and how it's measured, even "double te frame rate" is open to, let's say, misinterpretation.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I'm still not convinced that will fly.

    If DLSS 3 is as good as Nvidia say it is, and it requires a 4000 series board, then who the heck is going to buy the old stuff unless it is at fire sale prices? The low end cards maybe, but for the money a 3080 costs I don't want to see half the tick boxes empty.
    How did you quote something that I didn't say lol

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    How did you quote something that I didn't say lol
    Hmm, well that was supposed to be a multi reply but somehow I managed to delete the reply to your post but keep your name on what was left, I guess from trimming Percy's quote really badly
    I fixed the name on that post now.

    I'm trying to remember what my lost response to your post was. I think it was something like this:

    I've often wondered with some of these currencies whether the only things happening on the chain is activity from the miners. So miners mine, they earn rewards, the rewards are sent to an exchange to be spent and all that needs to be recorded on chain so requires mining to verify. So the cycle of mining is constant, but is anything actually useful happening with these coins? Eth has people actually doing stuff with it, so miners could skim something off the top of that.

    But can mining alone pump a currency into a big bubble? I wouldn't even know where to start with modelling that, and don't know any economists.
    Last edited by DanceswithUnix; 26-09-2022 at 08:31 AM.

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Talking of what miners are doing with their old rigs, apparently some are refurbing with a quick jet wash:

    https://twitter.com/I_Leak_VN/status...DT0aL9g9UrAAAA

    from:

    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cr...t-washing-gpus

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Nvidia is trying to do what they did with Turing - price it high so they can sell off the previous generation stock at RRP. The hilarious thing is the RTX4080 12GB should be in theory the RTX4060TI 12GB.

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Talking of what miners are doing with their old rigs, apparently some are refurbing with a quick jet wash:

    https://twitter.com/I_Leak_VN/status...DT0aL9g9UrAAAA

    from:

    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cr...t-washing-gpus
    There seems to a lot of denial amongst miners, some are saying they look forward to the lower prices so they can get more GPUs so when this crypto winter is over they can be bigger. What they don't see is previous crypto winters where all cryptos devaluing and being unprofitable, but in that case eth was still there and when values went up again normal service resumed.

    This time even if all cryptos increase in value there isn't a coin which can take them all and be profitable.

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    The hilarious thing is the RTX4080 12GB should be in theory the RTX4060TI 12GB.
    From a price or relative performance POV?

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    From a price or relative performance POV?
    Spec. % core Vs high end etc. Definitely not on price!!

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    From a price or relative performance POV?
    Just look at the core size. The RTX4080 12GB uses a sub 300MM2 chip and its a 104 series chip too!

    Also its the smallest 104 series chip since the one used in the GK104(the GTX680).

    Jim from AdoredTV has gone into some detail about it too!!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5DsL2y8aBk

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Now seeing the 6700 10GB (non XT) for £320 new, very tempting.

    Seeing more small farms on ebay, on refreshingly does admit mining on the listings.

    Just for giggles if I find a seller with multiple cards I put them all in whattomine.com to see what loss they were facing.

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Amusing to see spikes in the various mined coins difficulty levels

    Click on "year" at this link to see how Ergo got hammered

    https://2miners.com/erg-network-difficulty

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Amusing to see spikes in the various mined coins difficulty levels

    Click on "year" at this link to see how Ergo got hammered

    https://2miners.com/erg-network-difficulty
    Was funny in days after the merge a coin would show 1 cent profit and then miners would all jump on it and the profit was gone, rinse repeat many times with all other coins.

    Past that if one is profitable, it will just be people mining and selling with no buyers so price will drop.

    It may take a while but many miners have switched off and it’s just waiting for the realisation there won't be a good time to switch back on, then they might actually start to sell gpus.

    I will say in general idea of decentralised and paying people to be part of the network made sense so people with good computers could keep the network up and benefit, I don’t think the intention ever was mining farms which by definition start to centralise the currency, I guess nobody accounted for greed in the plan.

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Nvidia is trying to do what they did with Turing - price it high so they can sell off the previous generation stock at RRP. The hilarious thing is the RTX4080 12GB should be in theory the RTX4060TI 12GB.
    Price it high? At £1699.00 for the 4090FE I would agree with that on the face of it. The 3090FE launched at £1399.00, the 3090Ti FE was high as well. These are definitely halo products, with an early adopter premium. However when you start looking at how many extra cores the 4090 has compared to the 3090 / 3090Ti, that extra £200 seems pretty reasonable in purely that context alone, excluding the extra performance that brings with it. (/s)

    They're stupidly high prices. The 3090Ti is 47% cheaper than the 4090 now, which actually seems fairly reasonable, until you look at what that excludes vs the 4090.

    It's all a moot point for me though, I don't need anything better than the 3090FE I have had for the last 2 years. Even if I did it would involve a whole new base upgrade of motherboard / cpu / ram etc to get the most out of it. I find myself in the odd situation of not needing nor caring about upgrading, I'm especially not going to do so at the insane prices being asked for.

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iota View Post
    Price it high? At £1699.00 for the 4090FE I would agree with that on the face of it. The 3090FE launched at £1399.00, the 3090Ti FE was high as well. These are definitely halo products, with an early adopter premium. However when you start looking at how many extra cores the 4090 has compared to the 3090 / 3090Ti, that extra £200 seems pretty reasonable in purely that context alone, excluding the extra performance that brings with it. (/s)

    They're stupidly high prices. The 3090Ti is 47% cheaper than the 4090 now, which actually seems fairly reasonable, until you look at what that excludes vs the 4090.

    It's all a moot point for me though, I don't need anything better than the 3090FE I have had for the last 2 years. Even if I did it would involve a whole new base upgrade of motherboard / cpu / ram etc to get the most out of it. I find myself in the odd situation of not needing nor caring about upgrading, I'm especially not going to do so at the insane prices being asked for.
    The problem is not even the halo parts,its the fact Nvidia pricing the halo parts high,is mostly for them to jack the prices of even the entry level and mainstream parts. Apparently reading on OcUK forums,JHH mentioned to investors they did this so they don't need to discount the RTX3000 series.

    Its why I was argueing with people about the original Titan and what it would lead to. The RTX4080 12GB is a joke - its a sub 300MM2 die GPU with not even a 256 bit memory bus being sold for $900!! It has under half the CUDA cores of the RTX4090. So it probably is around RTX3080 10GB rasterised performance but for more money. Even my RTX3060TI uses a larger die and a bigger memory bus. This is another Turing like move,maybe even worse.

    All the people who paid twice the RRP for dGPUs and justified CPU price increases during the pandemic and all the mining lot are to blame for this. Now Nvidia,AMD,Intel,etc all expect the pandemic/mining gravy train to continue. These moronic companies don't understand the pandemic was a situation where people couldn't travel or do normal social activities so spent more on entertainment tech as a result. Now,the world is opening up people are wanting to spend on other activities again.

    Now think if Nvidia's plan succeeds,an RTX4070 will be a 10GB card with a $700 RRP,and an RTX3060 will be probably $500 with the die size closer to 200mm2 or even less. Probably with a 128 bit or 96 bit bus,etc. What is the likelihood we won't even get an improvement in overall performance under $700,just better RT performance and some newer tech.

    It's going to lead to even bigger performance stagnation amongst mainstream products. The only way for this to stop,is for PCMR to stop acting like whales and stop buying. A massive collapse in sales for a few quarters,and their share prices is the message which needs to be sent.

    I am hoping with so many having pushed upgrades forward because of the pandemic and work from home,this will happen. AMD and Intel are already reporting much lower sales,so I hope this continues until these companies enter the realworld. These companies are in fantasy land - interest rates are going up so people will need to find lots more money for mortages and any loan repayments. The cost of Credit Cards and any installment payment plans will cost more too. There is increases in energy costs and food costs too. The tech sector has become way too greedy - ten years of money printing has lead to cheap credit which has fueled all of this. The era of cheap credit is coming to an end.

    At this point,I am loosing interest in this hobby. I honestly think a console is going to be the way forward at this point if I want to run newer games. As long as my desktop(or even a laptop in the future) can run older games fine then I can just spend less on the PC. I have other hobbies too,and I can spend more on those and none of them are seeing the massive generation on generation price increases with this hobby.

    It was one thing spending a few £100 to upgrade to run a newer game,but to actually get a meaningful improvement you have to spend more and more. That is on top of the massive increases in CPU,motherboard and RAM costs. Then because the dGPUs drink too much power(the power spikes are not great),you might need to get a new PSU too.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 12-10-2022 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: Predictions on when GPUs will be back at RRP.

    I'm in the boat that doesnt play modern titles, so my 3080FE should last me a while yet, I play Diablo3, Warzone, World of Warships and iL2 so I'll be good for a while yet.

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