"New" version of RTX3060 with 26% REDUCED performance ???

[Saracen999]

For anyone thinking of a 3060 right now (Dec 3rd '22) I've just seen a heads-up on the WAN show, of a HardwareUnboxed review of some kind of 'new' 3060 that isn't. Allegedly.

I have to go out shortly so don't have time to check it out, but this is a quick and temporary warning, H-U don't usally go off on one without reason and I doubt they're doing so here, so check this before ordering if you're on the verge of doing so. The reported 26% performance reduction over the 'old' version isn't funny.

This remind anyone of the 12TB 4080 v 4070 (Ti) farce?

AMD, get on with the new launches, the timing is very good right now!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It is really an RTX3050TI 8GB instead of an RTX3060 8GB! The reduced performance is because of the move to a 128 bit memory controller and a 33% loss in memory bandwidth! With the lowish cost of the RX6600 it would need to be priced under £200 to make any sense! The naming seems more like Nvidia trying to justify a higher price it appears.

[Saracen999]

To me, it proves one thing .... the naming 'issue' of the 4080 12GB was no accident. Not that I thought it was, but this is enough to convince me without any doubt.

It also makes me very much more reluctant to buy ANY nVidia card, unless I have no practical option. So, I'm certainly now waiting to see how the AMD launches turn out before making any decisions. If I can avoid nVidia, I will. If I end up with nVidia, it will be while holding my nose to avoid the stench of this type of thing.

[Percy1983]

what annoys me is many want AMD to be competitive just to reduced nvidia prices yet by buying this or the 4080 at such high prices are telling nvidia its ok to do these things.

For a while I have had AMD cards for value and supporting the underdog but now its a case of just not buying off a toxic company like nvidia.

[Saracen999]

what annoys me is many want AMD to be competitive just to reduced nvidia prices yet by buying this or the 4080 at such high prices are telling nvidia its ok to do these things.

For a while I have had AMD cards for value and supporting the underdog but now its a case of just not buying off a toxic company like nvidia.

True enough, I suspect. For me though, it is at most only partly about prices. For sure, right now and for the short and probably medium term, nVidia have sufficient market power to act effectvely in a monopolistic manner, and it will take time to change, if it ever does.

But I'm minded of IBM's dominance in the 60s/70s. With something like 70% of the worldwide market in computing power (this was pre-PC, remember) they could do more or less what they liked, could charge more or less what they wanted, and get away with it. It was widely regarded as them being to powerful for that to ever change. But then, the world changed around them, they didn't notice fast enough, Microsoft came up with MS-DOS/PC-DOS and PCs became a thing, and how influential are MS now?

Either nVidia are making the same exact mistake and don't realise how much resentment is buiding up, or take the view (by those that matter) that should the house of cards collapse a la IBM, they'll have made so much money (and indeed, already no doubt have) that they personally just don't care.

For me though, wanting AMD to succeed with GPU launches isn't really about driving down nVidia prices. After all, that will depend on AMD pricing of any really competitive cards, and I'm not entirely convinced they won't jump on board with current high prices. Maybe they will. I don't buy into the "good guy AMD" ethos. I rather think if they do drive prices down by being highly competitive, it'll be more about cracking that 'monopolistic' model, so they can clean up longer-term, than scalping us right now.

So sure, nVidia are acting in a very "toxic" way and, for now, AMD much less so, but long-term? Time will tell, I guess.

[Percy1983]

So sure, nVidia are acting in a very "toxic" way and, for now, AMD much less so, but long-term? Time will tell, I guess.

Absolutely things change over time and AMD aren't exactly squeaky clean in some of their price gouging due 'miners will pay anything' a while back.

The problem for me is performance stagnation at every price point, rather than getting more performance for the same money each generation it just th top end price keeps getting higher and the lower tiers start the same price to performance.

SO the good news is with the AMD halo products being high pricing its still a much lower ceiling for the range below but also shows price to performance, increases. ie the 6950xt release at $1100 and the 7900xtx (with in theory a big performance jump) is $1000.

Of course I don't want nvidia to completely fail as they do make good hardware but I do think they need bringing down a peg or 2 which I hope AMD actually try and gain market share this generation.

[Saracen999]

Completely agree with that.

Unfortunately, there's enough people that can and will pay silly money (by my definition) for high (or high-ish) cards that they are still proitable to sell at said silly prices. Also, for a card with a given level of cst to produce, stock and sell, if yu can sell it at 'silly' prices, the margin on those cards goes through the roof.I mean, hypothetical example, :-

- A Saracen Goggleblaster GPU costs £900 to make, and in normal times I can sell it for £1000, meaning I make £100/card.

- In 'Silly' times, I can sell it for £1900, because even at that price, there's still enough people that can and will pay it, and now I make £1000 / card.

So I can make ten % as many cards and yet, the same profit. Or I can make the same number of cards (I can still sell them, 'cos ddemand still > supply, remember) and make 10x the profit, for the same amount of work. So, ummm .... why wouldn't I?

I think it was Linus or Luke on a recent WAN show that said something like "everybody will whinge and moan about how prces are guging, how evil XYZ Cor is to do that, how they're going to boycott XYZ Corp .... then go and buy the cards because they want a fast gaming card."

They have a point. An often overlooked aspect of "gouging" is, well, what is a card "worth"? In our capitalist society, unfortunately, pretty much whatever they can sell it for. However "unfair" we regard it, and however much we moan, they wouldn't be selling cards at £/$ SillyPrice, if people weren't buying them.

Take me as an example. A few (but not that many) years ago, I said something like :-

What's a graphics card worth to me? Dunno, £200. Maybe at a pinch, £300. I don't game enough to consider more than that. I dont see me ever buying so-called high-end cards.

Things change. Myy circumstances have, my time for gaming has and my disposable resources have, and here I am considering everything from a 'mere' 3080 to a 4090. Or RTX-7900XT. / XTX. No high end cards? Riiiight.

Even allowing for inflation, that's a serious re-evaluation of what I might be prepared to spend. If I ever get off my rear and buy anything, that is. Frankly, at this point, I'm looking for the right level of performance for my usage, and barely care what the price ultimately is. I just don't think, even now, I need a (say) 4090 enough to put up with the challenges (physical size, power draw, air-cooling, fitting it in a case I'd want, etc). Price comes quite a way down the list. What's the card "worth"?

Yet all that said, I'm trying to avoid nVidia not becase of the price of the cards, but because I don't like the implied overt deceit in confusing names. it's .... nasty. Cynical. Offensive. But if need be, as I said, I'll still buy one, even if I have to hold my nose while doing it due to the stench.

[kompukare]

Depressing amount of defenders of this on other forums, going on about dumb consumers not doing due diligence etc., meantime Nvidia and AIBs have not sampled this card so that there might be actual reviews of 8GB 3060 rather than any doing 'minimal' due diligence and looking for a 3060 review sees only the 12GB 3060 results.

I guess, consumers being so fond of buying only green do have themselves to blame but that AMD haven't pulled the occasional re-brand nonsense too, but Nvidia do have form for this. Just a pity nobody calls them out on this like Kingston were called out for bait & switch SSDs.

[Saracen999]

I'm sure consumers, like every other group, have some that are "dumb", but what probably offends me the most is that the naming thing seems calculated to catch the unwary.

I mean, a consumer doesn't need to be dumb to assume that two cards labelled 3060 but with different memory might have similar performance but one with less memory at a lower price so if not bothered about memory and are price-conscious, going for the smaller memory seems obvious. It is also, of course, the leaves sprinkled over the bear-pit, hiding the sharpened stakes of the performance hit.

It just that, whether it actually is or not, it looks like cynical manipulation by nVidia.

I'd agree about AMD, too. Not lily-white, and not the consumer champion. I always come from the perspective that if any large corporation in pretty much any field, is doing things good for consumers, they have a vested interest, one way or another, in doing it. It might be sheer PR, it might be brand development, it might be building market share (like so many initially "free" software packages, see Macrium thread). It might be a mix of motives. But there will be something behind it.

Rarely, if ever, has that cynical approach let me down, either as a consumer or in business.

[DanceswithUnix]

What surprises me most about Nvidia hobbling the 3060 like this, is that it makes Intel's A750 look so much better.