9800Pro OC Question

[phaeton]

Hi, I have just gotten my AIW 9800 PRO, nice card . I have a Vantec IceBerq 4 on it, just curious as to how much some people OC their cards?

I don't know how high to go, or what OC's more, GPU or RAM. Right now all I did was increase the GPU clockspeed a bit to 411 and I got 400 more 3D Marks in 2003 so now I broke 6000

Any help would be great.

[Austin]

You should have 380/340 stock but don't expect a whole lot more as 9800PRO tend to be pretty near their max already, plus AIW cards tend to o/c a little less than the std ones too. Basically there's no way to tell how far you can go, just raise a little at a time (I rec RAM then core) and test each time, continue until you get artifacts or instability and then just drop back 10mhz or so for the long term. Do bm as you should find you are awesome even at stock speed, I'd run at stock so as to keep the warranty and only o/c when things start pushing your card (and the price of a replacement has come down).

[Lexeus]

I really wouldn't overclock that card, its not worth the risk ! I mean, if it blows, I could have had it
I want that card so bad £350 isnt it ? I cant even afford £150 for a 9700Pro

[phaeton]

I got mine for 157£ (but I'm in Canada) and its Retail, Boxed. I got it from ATI (friends in high places).

Well, I'm running at 425/350 now and it's fine, was good at 440, but like Austin said, clock down a bit (I had 440/360) so I should not have problems. My IceBerq 4 should keep things cool also.

[SilentDeath]

erm... yes overclocking is good etc... but theres not much point yet... on my 9700np (stock was 276/270, ive got it UNDERCLOCKED to 200/270!!! - makes less heat, as its got a crappy cooler atm) can run max payne 2, full details with 6x aa and 16x af in 1600x1200 with no noticable perf loss, THAT is what these cards can do.... and urs has improved core and 2x the core speed.... DO U NEED ANY MORE???


uve lost the warrenty already due to the vantec iceberq4... as long as u exit games as soon as u artifact u shouldnt damage anything.. also ull want some extra cooling - the plate at the back (is it on the 9800 aiw?) gets very hot - this is the voltage regulation part of the card, and cooling it with something like a cut up heatsink, or ramsinks should be enuf (just epoxy or frag tape em to the top) will slightly help u clock further

mem never clocks as much as core, core makes most difference though... heres my benches fomr when i clocked mine:

core 276.00 mem 276.00 3dm2k1 = 14755
core 276.75 mem 270.00 3dm2k1 = 14792 --- r9700np stock speeds
core 276.00 mem 313.50 3dm2k1 = 15064
core 300.00 mem 270.00 3dm2k1 = 15144
core 289.50 mem 289.50 3dm2k1 = 15205
core 300.00 mem 300.00 3dm2k1 = 15485
core 325.50 mem 270.00 3dm2k1 = 15563
core 330.00 mem 270.00 3dm2k1 = 15720
core 313.50 mem 313.50 3dm2k1 = 15925
core 346.50 mem 270.00 3dm2k1 = 15947
core 330.00 mem 313.50 3dm2k1 = 16128

313.50 was highest mem i benched with, 319 artifacted after a while...
i have since tryed the core further and got to 400 without artifacts, but i cant remember 3dm2k1 score for it
also these results aint perfect.. i didnt do each 3 times and restarted sometimes.. and might have had background apps like mirc open ...

[Korky]

ppl on this forum have a real problem when ppl mension pro cards, ur card should do 400/360 no more risk than any other video card, and some can get a very good overclock, the 9800pro is no where near the limit of the r350 core.

[Austin]

Nothing wrong with PRO cards, but the nonPRO's are usually almost exactly the same thing, just lower clocked. So unless you need the guaranteed stock perf (ie are afraid to o/c) or simply have the cash to spare the nonPRO's tend to make much more sense. You see the 9700PRO was 325/310 and usually got around 370/340 (12% increase) while the 9700 tended to get from 275/270 to around 360/315 (24% increase) and saved you £100ish too. That meant after o/c'ing the 9700PRO would be 5% faster, hardly worth paying the extra £100 for. Same goes for the 9800 and 9800PRO too. Of course the 9600 nonPRO's RAM kills them but the 9600PRO is easily capable of 9600XT clocks. We saw the same trends back in the Rad8500LE vs 8500, GF4TI4200 vs 4400/4600 and GF3TI200 vs GF3TI500 days, nothing new. Anyway that's the reason people hark on about the nonPRO's, you can pay a lot less for practically the same perf esp if you o/c.

[evildoc614]

Austin so would you say for some one who cant afford a 9700-9800pro to get a non pro or a 9600pro... You seem like the man when it comes to video card knowledge = ).. do the 9700 and 9800 non pro have 4 or 8 pipelines?

[Stewart]

Silent - Why does the vantec iceberq4 void the warrenty on his card? Is that like one of those Zelman coolers, that you attach with epoxy stuff, and it stays on?

[Korky]

the 9700np doesnt easily get to pro speeds, infact most fall short, i even had one which wouldnt go 20mhz after with both before artifacts

[phaeton]

I don't think that I pooched the warranty by putting on the IceBerq. All I did was remove the old pins without breaking them, and put on new OCZ Ultra thermal paste (thats all I had) and put the sucker on. No modification, I can take it off and clean and put the stock on. After thinking a lot, I will stay at 400/350, no point for now. Since I got it for so cheap, I will just wait until the new core comes out in AIW flavour =D

[SilentDeath]

changing the cooler will viod the warrenty. if they gave me 10 warrentys for my card, there all gone

Korky, i disagree, a lot. mine gets there, then it gets twice as far (on core), its just the mem... if u got infinion 3.6 ns rated mem chips i wouldnt be suprised if ur 9700np didnt get far, but anything better (infenion 3.3, being the next best) should get u to 313.5... then u can change the cooling and get a bit more, the heatplate at back suposadly gives about + 15mhz on mem if its hot and 30 if uve voltmodded, + more for the acctual volt mod... so u can get a lot out of these cards, esp if u gonna water cool it, which i will be

Austin how good are the 9600xt's? the 256mb is about £95 is this as good as 9700np?

btw, from 200mhz core to 240mhz core, with mem at 270, i get about 450fps more on max payne 2! i could get 100fps+ at stock speeds! they didnt make mp2 look good enuf, it runs too fast

[bouncin]

even though nonpro cards can reach mem and core speeds of pro they often show a lower performance due to slower memory chips.

[Austin]

evildoc614 the 9700nonPRO is a lot faster than the 9600PRO or 9600XT, it uses 8 pipes and 256bitDDR so for the 9600 to offer comparable speed it would have to be clocked at 550/540 (1080mhz RAM inc DDR). Clocks for the 9600 are PRO=400/300 and XT=500/300 (at the mo). When you o/c the 9600PRO/XT you can often achieve comparale speed to the 9700nonPRO but really not exceed it. The 9500PRO is/was the only mid-range one to offer 8 pipes but it did have 128bitDDR so although it had the processing power of the 9700 (and more than 9700PRO when o/c'ed) the RAM was half the speed so perf was lower but still ahead of the 9600PRO/XT. Anything 9700 and up use 8 pipes and 256bitDDR except the 9800SE which are comparable to the 9600PRO and XT. So bottom line the 9700-9800 (nonSE) are definitely faster than 9600PRO/XT but you pay a lot more for them. 9600PRO can be had for £120ish while 9800 is over £200 ... 9700 like the 9500PRO aren't made anymore so are harder to get (or price up).

Korky the 9700nonPRO do easily exceed 9700PRO clocks, the 9700PRO itself was set very low probably to ensure minimum wastage and also so ATI had a little headroom for when the new nVidia DX9 cards arrived (they turned out to be crap but ATI didn't know that). Ask any reviewers, sites or normal users and you'll find 9700nonPRO's cores got more than 325mhz and sometimes as high as 380mhz. RAM was only designed for 270mhz (540mhz inc DDR) but many found 310-330mhz pretty normal, probably more bandwidth than the 9700 needed anyway. Of course there's no guarantees from o/c'ing but when you look at averages it's clear that 9700nonPRO can easily o/c past 9700PRO speed.

phaeton o/c'ing voids your warranty anyway, but you still stand a (small) chance of getting it tested if it is unmodded as it could have failed from something completely unrelated. As soon as you add a diff cooling solution or RAM HS you well and truly void your warranty so might as well o/c, find the limits and then you can set them a good deal lower if you wish, at least you know what it can do.

|SilentDeath| the 9600XT are little more than a 9600PRO with higher core clock. That's not a bad thing at all because it boosts you to 9500PRO perf levels. It only really makes sense for those looking for better perf without the need to o/c. PRO=400/300 XT=500/300 but both should reach around the same once o/c'ed (550/340), the XT's core should get a little higher (40mhz?) but the RAM is likely to somewhat hinder perf gains. ATI may release final XT with faster RAM (340mhz) which will give them a good boost and a superior o/c to the 9600PRO. The 9600XT_256MB was a misprint, £107 (incVAT) was the price for 9600_256MB which is way slower (clocks=325/200). 256MB is pointless, faster core and RAM clocks are MUCH more important. The 9600PRO should sell for £120ish while 9600XT should be around £150 depending if they all offer HL2 (coupons).

bouncin a 9700nonPRO at the same clock speeds as a 9700PRO gives IDENTICAL performance. The 9700PRO does come with RAM certified to run at 310mhz so in turn should o/c higher than the 9700nonPRO RAM which only has to do 270mhz. That's the only diff 'slower' memory chips make, they are capable of lower speeds but so as to avoid wastage they tend to have a fair deal of headroom in them, some manu's supply some cards (especially nonPRO's) with RAM capable of much faster speeds than they're set to at stock, this is to make their name (and profit) in the o/c'ing community.

[bouncin]

well say im looking at a rad 9800pro with samsung 2.5ns memory and sitting next to it was a 9800 with 2.8ns chips would there be a difference at same the clock rates?

[Austin]

Nope. It's nothing to do with latency and all to do with the speed that RAM should technically run at. Technically 2.8ns=357mhz (712DDR) 2.5ns=400mhz (800DDR), you could find they top out a little below but more often they tend to get a little beyond their technical spec.

So a 9800 using 2.8ns should get from 325/310 to around 370/360 while the 9800PRO with 2.5ns should get from 380/340 to around 400/400. Best thing about the PRO is you're 100% guaranteed at least 380/340 perf and it should be longer before you need to worry about o/c'ing (which voids your warranty).