Heat, power, noise comparison between X1900 & 7900?

My thinking has turned-around in the last six months. I now see the ATI X1900GT (512MB) as being a better value than either the Nvidia 7900GT (256MB) or 7900GTX (512MB). The ATI has slightly better image quality, better future-proofing (for use on future games that are likely to use more Shader Model 3 and dynamic-branching), better AVIVO (video-in-out) quality, and at a substantially lower price. (Am I correct there?)

However, I still don't have much feeling for the heat, power, noise differences. I understand the Nvidia 7900 has better specs here, but I haven't seen any official comparisons yet. Some people say the ATI noise is barely noticable, except for five seconds when powering-up, and when playing games to the hilt. Other people compare the ATI to a blow dryer (in noise and heat).

Have any labs published comparisons yet? Any thoughts? I'm interested in power requirements (the financial cost of running it), at idle and under full load (I presume that will also tell me the heat output). I'm also interested in the noise (under idle and full load).

Anand have the answer :) vs: Here

I find the whole thing amazing.

The best example is that rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish D.P at OCUK. He really pisses me off, he's such an Nvidia ****ing Fanboy.

Before the 7900 came out, people were saying how it was gonna be faster than the XTX, with 32 pipes, etc and all that crap. When it was seen it was only on par at best, people starting saying, well at least it runs cooler, and is quiter?

Surely it's for playing games? I don't quite understand the heat part. They still overclock like hell, and the cooler uses an exhaust system, so it keeps the case temp lower, i know it did when i went 7800>X1800XT.

Who cares about how much Power it uses? Nvidiaots clutching at straws me thinks?

Its not even worth discussing running costs when comparing graphics cards. I would imagine the difference to be about the same as having a power LED on your computer or not..... aka zero.

Heat and noise, well that may matter. For me the old arctic coolers (for the 9800's etc) is too loud on full but most people say that its silent on full? its all subjective. By the sounds of it both cards would be too noisey for me but thats doesnt bother me as i would likely put a 3rd party cooler on anyway. However having read a bit around the net it seems that the X1900XT's run so hot that practically no 3rd party HSF is capable of dealing with the load (maybe with the exception of the soon to be released zalman thingy), that for me could win the day for a 7900GTX even if it is slightly slower.

So yes heat and noise do matter to some people. To me a silent system is worth alot more than the typical 3-5fps advantage the X1900XT enjoys. Although i must say i have heard neither and i am going off other peoples biased views no doubt.

I will vouch for the quiet of the 7800GTX 512mb/7900GTX cooler. Its very quiet

I will also say thet the back of the PCB get pretty hot on nvidia cards, whereas the back of the PCB does not give off heat on the ATI card. Dunno if that helps at all but there it it.

i have the advantage of picking based purely on performance...as i watercool my graphics so noice/heat/power isnt an issue ;)

x1900xtx is the best card out atm imo...and its cheaper than the nvidia too :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kempez815

Anand have the answer :) vs: Here

---

Something about this data is weird. On this webpage, they say the X1900XTx draws at least 146 Watts at idle, and 315 Watts under full load. In other words, a Crossfire gaming rig would use at least 2x315=730 Watts just for the two graphics cards! You'd need a kilowatt powersupply!

Those same folks tested these cards in a Crossfire system, but their powersupply was only 600 Watts. It doesn't add up. What gives?

heat and noise difference to me doesnt bother me the x1900's run quite and cool enough in a proper effiently cooled case

ATI all the way :woowoo:

yeah ill agree they do chew monsterous power,
whist playing FEAR ATI tool displays that my card is using between 20 & 24 amps, thats insane lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artic_Kid

Something about this data is weird. On this webpage, they say the X1900XTx draws at least 146 Watts at idle, and 315 Watts under full load. In other words, a Crossfire gaming rig would use at least 2x315=730 Watts just for the two graphics cards! You'd need a kilowatt powersupply!

Those same folks tested these cards in a Crossfire system, but their powersupply was only 600 Watts. It doesn't add up. What gives?

---

2 cards doesnt necessary draw double the power, as both cards arent fully loaded during games.. More often they're still CPU limited.. Unless AMD or Intel comes up with a processor that has 4x the current speed.. maybe.. PERHAPS maybe Crossfire and SLI would be running full load..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artic_Kid

Something about this data is weird. On this webpage, they say the X1900XTx draws at least 146 Watts at idle, and 315 Watts under full load. In other words, a Crossfire gaming rig would use at least 2x315=730 Watts just for the two graphics cards! You'd need a kilowatt powersupply!

Those same folks tested these cards in a Crossfire system, but their powersupply was only 600 Watts. It doesn't add up. What gives?

---

Slight flaw there. They are measuring the power draw of the entire system. The GFX card is using a fraction of the total power. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by badass

Slight flaw there. They are measuring the power draw of the entire system. The GFX card is using a fraction of the total power. :)

---

Eek! You're right. (I just checked their fine print.) Their entire system (including the X1900XTx, and CPU, mobo, HDDs, and all the rest) uses about 146 Watts at idle, and 315 Watts under full load. That makes much more sense. It suggests that the X1900XTx uses, approximately, 30 Watts at idle, and 140 Watts under full load. ??? (That's a very rough estimate on my part.)

Does anyone have accurate power specs for both the X1900s and the 7900s? I'd like to compare the two. For example, under full load, if the 7900s use, say, 30 Watts less than the X1900s, then that's probably not enough of a difference to justify the substantially higher cost of the 7900s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Couger

yeah ill agree they do chew monsterous power,
whist playing FEAR ATI tool displays that my card is using between 20 & 24 amps, thats insane lol

---

That indicates that the ATI X1900XTx is using between 240 and 288 Watts! Yikes! (That's double what I estimated in my previous post.) With power figures like that, it's hard to explain two of these in a Crossfire system using a mere 600 Watt power supply (as the reviewers did here). Their PSU must have been operating on the hairy-edge of shutdown.

Like I said in my previous post.. its unlikely that both cards are drawing exactly 100% load power...

Crossfire would have distributed alot of the math across both GPUs, therefore instead of 1 XTX running at 100%, you now get 2 cards running 50%.. Given the extra setting u throw at it, probably running 75% of each card with CPU limiting in most situations. If 1 card at 100% load chews 290-300W.. 150% would only be around 450W..

Enuf said..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sawyen

... its unlikely that both cards are drawing exactly 100% load power... Crossfire would have distributed alot of the math across both GPUs, therefore instead of 1 XTX running at 100%, you now get 2 cards running 50%.. Given the extra setting u throw at it, probably running 75% of each card with CPU limiting in most situations. If 1 card at 100% load chews 290-300W.. 150% would only be around 450W.

---

I've been told (on a previous thread here at Hexus) that both of the dual graphics cards perform a fair amount of the same processing in duplicate. Each card uploads 100% of the textures, and each card does 100% of the vertex processing (so I'm told). Moreover, when operating in any non-alternating frame mode, (for example, in split-screen mode, or checkboard mode), there is an overlap of the areas to be computed, so here again both cards do 100% of the processing. In other words, there is some substantial processing-power wasted when doing SLI/Crossfire, and that will show up as extra heat. The change-over to SLI/Crossfire is not 100% efficient.

Also, concerning CPU limiting. People typically do not use SLI/Crossfire to get around CPU limiting. Rather they use it to get better image quality (higher resolution, and better eye-candy effects), while keeping approximately the same frame-rate (and CPU limiting) as before. People crank-up the image quality until their graphics system can barely keep up with the CPU. So I believe it a mistake to assume the two graphics cards are under-utilized (and under-powered).

Given all that, it seems speculative, even doubtful, that the two graphics cards would run at only 75% of their available processing power. Given the power-figures reported so far, it still seems that a 600 Watt power supply would be on the hairy-edge of shutting down.

P.S. We still have no power figures for the 7900XTx. Has anyone posted those?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [DW]Cougho

Heat and noise, well that may matter. For me the old arctic coolers (for the 9800's etc) is too loud on full but most people say that its silent on full? its all subjective. By the sounds of it both cards would be too noisey for me but thats doesnt bother me as i would likely put a 3rd party cooler on anyway. However having read a bit around the net it seems that the X1900XT's run so hot that practically no 3rd party HSF is capable of dealing with the load (maybe with the exception of the soon to be released zalman thingy), that for me could win the day for a 7900GTX even if it is slightly slower.

---

They matter a lot to me as well. I was very reluctant to get the X1900whatever due to the stories about the noise, however in the end I decided to just get one (X1900XT) anyway - much cheaper than the equivalent NV cards, and apparently much better image quality, so a win-win really.

The noise was bad, so I replaced with the Thermalright V1-Ultra, which keeps core temperatures down in the mid-60s instead of the high 80s I was seeing with the stock cooler if it's on full, and mid to high 70s if I turn down the fan (using the Zalman multi-controller thing) to near-inaudible levels. You do have to be happy to take pliers/hacksaws to the RAM heatsinks that ship with the cooler (2 of them need to be cut down to roughly half their height due to the positioning of the heatsink/heatpipe assembly on the front of the card), or you could wait until they release compatible ramsinks, which apparently they are going to do at some point.

The only thing that gets really hot are the power regulators, as they're no longer being cooled by the fan. The Thermalright fan sits on top of the card and sucks air through the heatsink/heatpipe thing, and as the card sits directly underneath my exhaust fan, it gets extracted immediately. For the power regulators I've slapped on some of the Zalman ramsinks which has given me a bit lower temps (high 70s after 2 hours of load instead of mid-90s, (!!!) which it was before) - I need to clear up the airflow a bit from the front fan though, or maybe put a very low-rpm exhaust in underneath the graphics card (am I really ever going to use that PCI-E x1 slot? ;)) as it looks as if hot air may be pooling under there a bit. Turning up the front fan helps though - I guess plenty of cool air gets added under there, and air can escape via the space on the back panel where the exhaust of the X1900's heatsink used to be.

Now, even if I turn all the fans on full, it's not remotely as noisy as the X1900 stock is when it spins up. Bring on Oblivion!

I think I read somewhere that the 7900GTX will use aprrox 120w. Don't remember where I read that, think I googled '7900GTX' and found that a few days before they were released.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barkotron

... I decided to just get one (X1900XT) anyway.... The noise was bad, so I replaced with the Thermalright V1-Ultra .... You do have to be happy to take pliers/hacksaws to the RAM heatsinks that ship with the cooler (2 of them need to be cut down to roughly half their height due to the positioning of the heatsink/heatpipe assembly on the front of the card)

---

All those hastles are giving me doubts about the X1900. Bad noise, and bad heat. And the fix (with pliers/hacksaws) sounds risky. Certainly a way to lose the graphics card warranty.

On the other hand, I don't see why the 7900 is selling for so much more than the X1900. (Perhaps it's because the 7900s are not really available right now. Another paper launch? Perhaps the cost will come down when they're really available.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GFiSH

I think I read somewhere that the 7900GTX will use aprrox 120w. Don't remember where I read that, think I googled '7900GTX' and found that a few days before they were released.

---

Yes, I've heard that figure (120 Watts for the 7900GTX) mentioned casually prior to release. But I haven't seen that figure confirmed by any labs yet.

I am definitely biasing to the x1900xt / xtx for my next build and for me, noise is a big issue, I was hoping the Arctic Cooling Accelero X2 would be the answer, reviews look good - anyone got one and can confirm?

ahh its good to know at least 1 HSF can cope with the heat, and by the sounds of it alot better than the stock cooler.

My post is a bit out of date really as over the weekend i plumped for the X1800XT over the 7900GT myself despite the heat and noise issues.

Personally im keeping an eye out for the new Zalman VF900 as the VF700 is apparantly superb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artic_Kid

That indicates that the ATI X1900XTx is using between 240 and 288 Watts! Yikes! (That's double what I estimated in my previous post.) With power figures like that, it's hard to explain two of these in a Crossfire system using a mere 600 Watt power supply (as the reviewers did here). Their PSU must have been operating on the hairy-edge of shutdown.

---

The test here shows a significantly different figure:
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/?i=3335&s=8

Now perhaps 3D Marks don't push the card as far as a few hours of FEAR (no idea), but I'd be inclined to say that the X1900 uses consumes less than 150W than over.. (Stock)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artic_Kid

All those hastles are giving me doubts about the X1900. Bad noise, and bad heat. And the fix (with pliers/hacksaws) sounds risky. Certainly a way to lose the graphics card warranty.

On the other hand, I don't see why the 7900 is selling for so much more than the X1900. (Perhaps it's because the 7900s are not really available right now. Another paper launch? Perhaps the cost will come down when they're really available.)

---

Yanking off the cooler and replacing it voids the warranty anyway. I suppose it's up to you if you want to tell anyone about it. Keep the stock one and stick it back on if there's a problem - I won't tell anyone ;).

You don't need to go anywhere near the actual card with the hacksaw/pliers/whatever. Just chop up the little ramsinks that come with the cooler. You could even do this in a different room. Alternatively, Zalman's VGA ramsinks (at least, the small ones intended for the back of the card) would also fit on top of the two problem RAM chips, as they're short enough to fit under the front plate of the V1-Ultra.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TooNice

The test here shows a significantly different figure:
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/?i=3335&s=8

Now perhaps 3D Marks don't push the card as far as a few hours of FEAR (no idea), but I'd be inclined to say that the X1900 uses consumes less than 150W than over.. (Stock)

---

We're seeing big discrepancies concerning the power requirements of these cards. According to a previous poster, Couger, during heavy gaming in FEAR, the ATI tool displays that his X1900XTX is using between 20 & 24 amps, which equals 240 to 288 Watts! By comparison, the above link claims the figure is 135 Watts, which is a huge (113%) difference on this spec (perhaps the ATI tool is not a good measure of the power requirements?).

That same link is the only review-lab so far to compare the power requirements of the 7900GTX (89 Watts) with the X1900XTX (135 Watts, or 52% more power than the 7900GTX). If that is accurate, then the ATI card uses 46 Watts more than the Nvidia -- (or about as much as three hard drives) -- which doesn't seem to be enough to explain the difference in fan noise. I had previously gotten the impression the ATI card sounds like a jet engine, with a corresponding amount of heat. While the Nvidia is quiet as a mouse. But if the difference is merely 46 Watts, then something doesn't make sense.

Without first hand experience or dB measurements of both cards (from the same source) , I can only make educated guesses.

Isn't it possible that our perception of what is noisy increases significantly past a certain threshold? You said it yourself, 52% more power. That is an extra 50% of heat to dissipate.

The CPU cooler I used for my Barton goes from 1900RPM to 3500RPM. From 1900 RPM to 2400 RPM, the cooler remains "quiet" compared to the rest of my system.
Add another 600 RPM, and it suddenly changes from "quiet" to "a "noisy". Another 500RPM, and it sounds like there is a hoover in my case and it covers all other noise in the rest of my system. 3500RPM is less than a 50% in RPM compared to 2400RPM. Yet the end result seems more like a 10x increase in noise.

Now it could be that the fan in ATI card are simply not as well designed (again, I can't compare both), but the idea that noise become significantly louder past a certain threshold also seem plausible to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artic_Kid

That same link is the only review-lab so far to compare the power requirements of the 7900GTX (89 Watts) with the X1900XTX (135 Watts, or 52% more power than the 7900GTX). If that is accurate, then the ATI card uses 46 Watts more than the Nvidia -- (or about as much as three hard drives) -- which doesn't seem to be enough to explain the difference in fan noise. I had previously gotten the impression the ATI card sounds like a jet engine, with a corresponding amount of heat. While the Nvidia is quiet as a mouse. But if the difference is merely 46 Watts, then something doesn't make sense.

---

Your talking as if there the same card, with the same cooling?:confused:

I've been thinking about this question again, and there are a couple of reasons why I found the stock cooler so annoying on the X1900XT.

First off, it's quite a raucous noise. Even at lowest, it sounded quite raw, as if there was something not quite right with it (of course, I suppose it's possible that there was in fact something wrong with it, but I guess we'll never know now :P). Once it span up it was really intrusive and whiny. Not so much the volume as the tone - I've certainly had louder machines (lots and lots of 80mm fans - sounded like the flight deck of the Ark Royal :D), but I haven't had any that were quite that whiny.

Secondly, and I think this was the real killer, once in-game, my system seemed to settle after a few minutes into just about the exact point where the cooler kicked into really nasty mode. In other words, I'd play for a few minutes, then the cooler would wind up and blast hot air out of the back of the case for a couple of minutes, which would cool the chip down just enough so the fan turned off, at which point the chip warmed up again to the point where the fan needed to kick in, and so on and so on ad nauseam. Now that was annoying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barkotron

Secondly, and I think this was the real killer, once in-game, my system seemed to settle after a few minutes into just about the exact point where the cooler kicked into really nasty mode. In other words, I'd play for a few minutes, then the cooler would wind up and blast hot air out of the back of the case for a couple of minutes, which would cool the chip down just enough so the fan turned off, at which point the chip warmed up again to the point where the fan needed to kick in, and so on and so on ad nauseam. Now that was annoying.

---

Cant you just adjust the fan speed thresholds in ATi Tool like i do on my X800 or is that a no-no on the X1800/X1900's?

Um. Yes, you can, probably.

But changing the threshholds would presumably have just meant that this still happened, just at a slightly higher temperature, no? I can't really see that the fan at the lower speed would have kept it cool enough for the higher one not to kick in eventually.

In any case, maybe I'm just overly-sensitive to such things, but the thing was even annoying me when it didn't spin up. It's quiet, but it sounds rough. I wouldn't have thought it would bother most people, but I've been on a real "must have silence" kick recently - I don't need it during games, but when I'm working, I don't want any annoying noises, and that was an annoying noise. I'm perfectly happy to have stuck a different cooler on it. It also means that my X1900XT will clock right up to the limit of Catalyst overdrive settings no problem at all, and still stay 10-15 degrees cooler than it did with the stock cooler. With stock, I could get to 665 core, 780 mem, but with the new one I max out the overdrive thingmy at 690/800. I'm guessing I could get more with ATITool, but to be honest, I'm happy with it as it is :D.

It's got to the point where I've noticed that my monitor (big old Samsung CRT) has got a buzzing cap or something. If I fancied killing myself, I'd open up the back and get in there with a screwdriver, but I value my limbs, so I'm just going to (probably) buy a new TFT instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barkotron

.... I've been on a real "must have silence" kick recently - I don't need it during games, but when I'm working, I don't want any annoying noises, and that was an annoying noise.

---

Are you saying the X1900XT (with stock cooler) is annoyingly noisy even when you're not gaming? (That would likely be a deal-killer for me. It's bad enough that it's annoyingly noisy during gaming, but during office work that would be too much.)

I doubt that I want to jack-around with replacing the stock cooler, voiding the warranty, and risking a screw-up. Maybe I'll have to hold out till one of the ATI partners uses a quieter cooler.

It's not all that bad, and I wouldn't have thought most people would be bothered by it, but like I said, I've really over-sensitised myself to the noise coming from the system over the last couple of weeks while I've been tweaking it, and it was bugging me. It wasn't loud by any stretch of the imagination, it just didn't sound nice and easy, slightly grating. It's very possible that there was actually a problem with that particular fan. Had it been six months ago I could have put up with it easily, but I've just got myself a P180 and everything in the case is now 120mm fans. As I've said before, the loudest thing about the system nowadays if I turn all the fans to minimum is the monitor :).

I think it's worth you taking that context into account. I certainly wouldn't suggest that you shouldn't get one of the cards because of the idle noise. It is quiet, and if I hadn't gone all SPCR-obsessive-compulsive over the last couple of weeks, I'd never have noticed it :).

As a point of interest Barkotron, what PSU do you have in your P180??? (Lcable lenght can be an issue with the P180 I understand, and I have a final choice down to Seasonic or FSP).....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barkotron

Um. Yes, you can, probably.

But changing the threshholds would presumably have just meant that this still happened, just at a slightly higher temperature, no? I can't really see that the fan at the lower speed would have kept it cool enough for the higher one not to kick in eventually.

---

Yeah it would still spin up but lowering the threshold would have probably prevented the constant speed up...... speed down cycle. Anyway ill hopefully be able to comment more effectively tomorrow when my X1800XT turns up :mrgreen:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EtheAv8r

As a point of interest Barkotron, what PSU do you have in your P180??? (Lcable lenght can be an issue with the P180 I understand, and I have a final choice down to Seasonic or FSP).....

---

Mate take a look at this thread for discussion on this and a pic :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EtheAv8r

As a point of interest Barkotron, what PSU do you have in your P180??? (Lcable lenght can be an issue with the P180 I understand, and I have a final choice down to Seasonic or FSP).....

---

A slightly long-in-the-tooth Zalman 400B-APS. Works perfectly nicely, is fairly quiet, and has a fan on the back - I reckon this may be a better idea in the P180 as the hard drives depend on the PSU fan for cooling if you yank out the fan from the lower chamber like I did...

As for cable length, my mobo has the power connectors annoyingly right up the other end of the board, so I wasn't getting anywhere even close with the original. Luckily Maplin had 20-pin and 4-pin extension cables cheaper and more in stock (i.e. they actually had some ;)) than anywhere else, and had them to me by the next day. I believe they also have other extension cables.

Scan also stock a Silverstone extension cable set that could help if your mobo isn't as old-school as mine and has funny-numbered-pin connectors.

Thank you both, toolsong and Barkotron ~ I will settle on Seasonic and P180 then.

Right well i got my X1800XT today and its a monster of a card in so many ways.

Size - :eek: if it were level with my HDD it wouldnt fit in my case.
Heat - No need for central heating now :mrgreen:
Performance - Takes the X800XT out the back and doesnt just give it a bloody good hiding it murders its whole family.

and then the important one...... noise. Well at startup its just completely unacceptable, totally unacceptable. When i first booted it up in my new mobo on its box i thought "right so its going back then". But actually playing games and idling its not too bad. At idle i can definately hear it over anything else in my case but its not that intrusive and in games its barely louder than that.

Overall im very very impressed, not been this impressed since i got my old 9800 and seen AA and AF for the first time :lol:

Yea, I was shocked by the size. The VF-900 is out, but at £30, I don't know if I can justify it..