Just to clarify:
I phoned them and got the RMA and the go-ahead. Then today I wrote a letter stating i was sending back unused goods. I posted the letter and the screen (separately) by registered mail (i think its the Irish equivalent of Prioity Post in the U.K) and now have both receipts in my pocket.
I just have to keep the fingers crossed now.
As always thanks for the help Saracen.
q
The 7 day cooling off period applies to all items bought online for inspection purposes only. Whilst the arguement that seals being broken hasn't been tried in court it is a grey area. The distance selling laws enable a "virtual shop" to be created so that a customer can inspect a product like you would in a shop. Just like in a shop you couldn't rip open all the product seals or shrink wrap and place it back on the shelf! The 7 day period allows to you to inspect the goods and reject them unused .
Dead pixels don't count as a warranty case, the manufacturer will set the limit on dead pixels. I do believe that LG state that over 6 around the screen, 1 in the centre or a group of 4 together constitutes a replacment screen.
My question is this:
A lot has been mentioned on the fact that OcUK will try to not accept the monitor as it has been opened. This is THEIR interpretation of the laws stating that you must take good care of the goods. They are trying to keep their returned products as new and (again in THEIR interpretation) UNUSED.
Surely you need to break the seal, open the box and connect the monitor to TEST that it is satisfactory? Does this testing count as USING the monitor or merely TESTING to see if it is fit to do the intended job? This negates their argument, if it is in fact testing it, that the goods are not as new, as they are merely inspected by the consumer.
First time I've ever done that! TRIPLE POST!!!!
I am the daddeh!
Number three!
Suck me beautiful!
As I mentioned above, the items are allowed to be inspected, just as you would in a shop off a shelf. That is the whole purpose of these laws. Technically there is no right to return an item which isn't faulty and has been used.
The point here is the monitor does do its job and isn't faulty and is entirely and wholy fit for its purpose.
You don't walk into a shop, pick an item off the shelf, break it open, use it and then put it back on the shelf if it isn't quite what you want even though it works as described.
Last edited by daveh; 19-11-2003 at 02:12 PM.
Another issue could be that you get a replacement LCD with more than one dead pixel...
Though as said, OCUK have no obligation to replace the monitor as what they have sold is within the manufacturers standards, and you do not have a valid reason for returning it ("I don't like it" isn't really a valid reason).
So it depends on how nice they are feeling...
NS
Surely satisfactory is one of those terms that is different for every circumstance. A dead pixel might be satisfactory to you, but your neighbour might think not......
If you decide it is unsatisfactory, ie. unfit for its purpose then surely you are entitled to your money back. I'm sure I've heard that it is up to the consumer whether or not the product is fit for purpose.....
That's true in as far as it goes. but .... it omits to cover consumer protection under the various Sale of Goods Acts.Originally posted by daveh
The 7 day cooling off period applies to all items bought online for inspection purposes only. Whilst the arguement that seals being broken hasn't been tried in court it is a grey area. The distance selling laws enable a "virtual shop" to be created so that a customer can inspect a product like you would in a shop. Just like in a shop you couldn't rip open all the product seals or shrink wrap and place it back on the shelf! The 7 day period allows to you to inspect the goods and reject them unused .
Dead pixels don't count as a warranty case, the manufacturer will set the limit on dead pixels. I do believe that LG state that over 6 around the screen, 1 in the centre or a group of 4 together constitutes a replacment screen.
Goods could be returned in three ways :-
1) DSR protection. That's where your 7-days comes from, and yeah, the opened box is a grey area.
2) Warranty. Manufacturers can indeed set the terms of the warranty and if they determine that 1 dead pixel is not sufficient for a warranty claim, then it isn't.
BUT, then there's :-
3) Sale of Goods/Sale and Supply of Goods Acts.
That's where the claim could arise that one dead pixel is grounds for returning goods. If a consumer could demonstrate, if necessary to a court, that one dead pixel was not of "satisfactory" quality then they would be entitled to reject the goods, rescind the contract and get their money back - Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 Section 1 (2).
Of course, a consumer asserting that this is not satisfactory may not be enough. The retailer then has to take a view on whether one dead pixel (or two, of five, or whatever) is, in their view, satisfactory or not. If the supplier maintains it is satisfactory, and the consumer maintains it is not, then, if neither party backs down, it'll ultimately be a court that decides who is right.
"Satisfactory" and "fitness for purpose" are two completely different legal issues.Originally posted by Big RICHARD
Surely satisfactory is one of those terms that is different for every circumstance. A dead pixel might be satisfactory to you, but your neighbour might think not......
If you decide it is unsatisfactory, ie. unfit for its purpose then surely you are entitled to your money back. I'm sure I've heard that it is up to the consumer whether or not the product is fit for purpose.....
Satisfactory quality is basically whether the goods are up to scratch, defect-free, etc. Does your raincoat leak? Is the product faulty?
"Fitness for purpose" is about whether the product will do what you, the consumer, want it to do. The purpose can be "implicit" or "explicit".
An implicit purpose is something that is implicit in the nature of the goods. For example, if you buy a raincoat, it is implicit that you expect it to keep out the rain. You don't have to ask, when buying a raincoat, "will it keep out the rain?" You can rely on that being implicit in the nature of the goods.
An explicit purpose is where you have specifically stated what you want the goods for. An example might be buying a P4 chip and stating that you want it to work in a Socket A motherboard.
Businesses are expected to be competent to advise on the suitability of the products they sell. If you ask that, and are told it will work, then you'd have a right to rescind the contract and get your money back when you find it doesn't - as it is not fit for the explicit purpose you stated you wanted it for when you bought the goods.
So you can take goods back, despite them being in perfect working order and not in any way faulty, if they are not fit for the purpose, be it implicitly or explicitly stated.
Note, however, that unless the fitness is implicit in the nature of the goods, you are not able to rely on an explicit purpose unless you told the retailer. Don't expect to be able to take a P4 chip back because it doesn't work in your Socket A motherboard, unless you told them it was a Socket A motherboard, or at least, what motherboard it was. Fitness for purpsoe is all about consumers relying on the expertise of the retailer in the product he sells, and if you don't say what you want something for, and if it isn't clear from the nature of the product (like the raincoat) then you can't complain later that it doesn't do what you wanted it for.
This is also precisely why, if asked whether a product is suitable for a given purpose, a shop should not tell you it is unless they are sure that it is. They can (theoretically at least) be held accountable for that advice.
Of course, if you cannot PROVE that you made your intended use explicitly clear, you could have trouble winning a case based on it, even assuming you are prepared to undertake the cost and aggravation of bringing such a case. So, preferably, get it in writing or at least, in front of several witnesses. This is why it is not unknown for rights that you have in theory to be quite hard to actually enforce.
The DSR allow the customer to inspect the item and make a decision himself based on his assessment of suitability, not on anyone else's. This inspection of suitability for electrical goods extends to turning such an item on for inspection purposes only, as it is very difficult to inspect the picture quality of a TV or similar with it turned off. In store, a demonstration unit would be expected.
This is exactly what I was referring to. If you decide that a dead pixel is unsatisfactory then you are entitled to your money back. This is part of the DSR and is a statutory right. If a supplier states that once a product is opened and switched on, even for the purpose of inspection purposes then that retailer is infringing on your statutory rights.Originally posted by Zathras
The DSR allow the customer to inspect the item and make a decision himself based on his assessment of suitability, not on anyone else's. This inspection of suitability for electrical goods extends to turning such an item on for inspection purposes only, as it is very difficult to inspect the picture quality of a TV or similar with it turned off. In store, a demonstration unit would be expected.
some resellers offer a 'checking fee' and if you order a monitor from one of these i would definately get them to check it out first as the ones with dead pixels have to go somewhere... though i would guess you could return dead pixel ones as 'not new, previously opened' or whatever.
Nox
Your right to cancel the contract under the DSR is nothing to do with whether the pixel is satisfactory or not. Subject to the provisions of the DSR, and bearing in mind that there are exceptions, you can simply change your mind.Originally posted by Big RICHARD
This is exactly what I was referring to. If you decide that a dead pixel is unsatisfactory then you are entitled to your money back. This is part of the DSR and is a statutory right.
Returning goods because they are not satisfactory is granted under the Sale and Supply of Goods Act, not the DSR. Completely different conditions and rules apply.
The DSR does NOT make that clear. So far as I can find, and I've read the Act several times, the DSR does not state WHAT you can do with the goods. It does not refer to that other than to put an obligation on the consumer to "take reasonable care" of the goods (Section 17 (2) (b)), and unfortunately does not define what that means. Some suppliers are choosing to interpret that as "unopened" but the act does NOT say (nor in my view, even imply) that.Originally posted by Big RICHARD
If a supplier states that once a product is opened and switched on, even for the purpose of inspection purposes then that retailer is infringing on your statutory rights.
Until such time as either the Act gets amended (don't hold your breath) or this issue comes before a court and a precedent gets set, it is a grey area.
In any event, until the point is clarified, if a retailer choses to interpret the act as meaning the goods must be unopened, the only way you can enforce your rights (if the retailer will not bend) is to take legal action .... and as the point is a grey area, you may not win.
I'm with Zathras on this. As far as I'm concerned, inspection of electrical goods involves swithcing them on, and I can't see a court agreeing otherwise, especialy since the act is designed to protect consumers.
but you should know what the goods are designed to do before you switch them on, so i would actually disagree here. If they fail to do what they are designed to do, either through being broken or being sold under a wrong description then thats fine - refund/replace away. However if they are working as stated (by the manufacturer) then its a whole different problem. And a dead pixel is something that *may* happen to TFT's, unfortunately.Originally posted by TeePee
I'm with Zathras on this. As far as I'm concerned, inspection of electrical goods involves swithcing them on, and I can't see a court agreeing otherwise, especialy since the act is designed to protect consumers.
however if the monitor didn't power up <cough> or had a scratch on the back/cracked case or whatever <cough cough> when you received it or something along those lines then its obviously not a acceptable product...
Nox
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