Is my 3DMark2001 score a bit low?

Just received and assembled my Shuttle and ran 3Dmark2001 and got the following:

Shuttle SB61G2 20th Anniversary Ed.
P4 2.6GHz 800 FSB
2x256MB OCZ 3200
TYAN 9600 Pro
80 GB Seagate 'cuda IV


My 3Dmark score: 11043

I'm a bit disappointed, was expecting something near 14K maybe? This is straight out of the box so i have only installed the drivers with the pack. Directx 8.1b i think. and the drivers for the 9600 pro are whatever was in the box. not sure what they are.

Will updating the drivers help much though. I would agree that you shouldn't flash the bios if everything is working but it might help here?

Any advice would be great. i'm gonna try avoid o/cing for the time being.
TIA

have a look on the forums for information about the omega catalyst (3.7 i think or maybe 3.8) drivers, as these should give a performance increase aswell as allowing you to overclock the card.

also make sure antialiasing and antistrophic filtering is off, and close any programs in the background :) i get 13xxx with a geforce4ti4200 so you should definately be getting more than me :)

mark

;) No need to flash the BIOS with 9600 cards, but it is VERY wise to install either the latest ATI CATs or Omega drivers. Also best to ensure you have the latest drivers for all your hw (esp mobo). Updating to DX9b is well worth doing too. Other than that 11000-12000 is roughly normal for a non-o/c'ed 9600PRO ... expect great boosts from o/c'ing as you should get from 400/300 to around 530/360.

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xpect great boosts from o/c'ing as you should get from 400/300 to around 530/360.

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will do. the Tyan has a great hardware monitoring program that allows you to vary fan speeds and temperatures etc. I know there's 3rd party programs to do this stuff but its good that it is provided by the manufacturer. Gives an indication that it is probably good for o/cing.

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also make sure antialiasing and antistrophic filtering is off, and close any programs in the background

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well actually i just let it run the 17 tests - i didn't think i had a choice whether i ran AA or not. will try again later.

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ATI CATs or Omega

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this is my first ATI card (my last one was an Nvidia TNT2 :) ) so i'm a bit clueless as to the drivers available. I'd always thought there was one type only ie Catalyst. Going off to have a look now. I'll get dx9 as well. I tried morrowind to test it and it crashed as soon as i moved to go outside the boat. The screen went blank and the monitor went into standby (there didn't seem to be any signal coming out)
That had me worried so i rebooted and it seemed to work ok. Tried NWN and that seemed fine so it looks like a have a few patches to pick up.

Thanks.

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Originally posted by quarryman
well actually i just let it run the 17 tests - i didn't think i had a choice whether i ran AA or not. will try again later.

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He doesn't mean changing the program settings, he means making sure AA and AF are turned off i nthe drivers (Display Properties >> Advanced >> Direct3D). You can also set that to "Best performance" to increase your score a little more.

The I got a 51 point increase going from the 3.7's to the 3.9s with my Radeon 9700 so you should be ok just to grab the latest 3.9 Catalyst of ATi's site.

NS

:) Official drivers are from ATI ...

http://www.ati.com/support/drivers/w...=17&submit.y=7

;) Here's the less official but more tweaked and o/c friendly(ier) drivers based on the CATs known as the Omega drivers ...

http://www.omegacorner.com/ati.htm

:cool: With the latest drivers and DX9B installed you should find everything goes swimmingly. If you still get problems try to ensure all your hw has the latest drivers but if you haven't done a fresh OS install (or at least reinstall) since upgrading you could still have issues.

:D When you game you really do want to use at least 2xAA+4xAF to 4xAF+8xAF but for benchmarking (esp 3Dmark) you should ensure it is all disabled (both in the driver panel and 3DM itself). Still for stock running your score seems about right, you should push 13000-14000 once your gfx card is o/c'ed (but ensure everything runs stable at std speeds first). TBH 3Dmark03 is a better benchmark for modern DX9 cards, 3Dmark2001 really doen't push modern cards ... well unless you start using AA+AF and pref a higher res but then it's hard to compare results.

OC a little!! :D I've seen a lot of people can get their Shuttles clocked up to 250Mhz FSB!!
I'd shoot for something simple, like 3Ghz.

Change ratio to 5:4, FSB to 230, NB strap: 800, CPU vcore to 1.55v and you should be good to go.

ram settings can probably be more aggressive than by SPD since you'll be running at 184Mhz instead of 200. But you will probably get the same(for memory) and much higher in most benchmarks b/c of more FSB and greater CPU clock.

3GHz would be great. i'll aim for that. the RAM i have is supposed to be good so i should be able to manage something decent :)

OT: those shuttles are soo cramped inside. very little room for air flow. i'll have to watch my temps!

;) You'll know when your temps are too high as you'll experince instability. I would advise the safer o/c'ing method of upping the FSB gradually rather than taking a leap and only add 0.05v at a time and only when you reach the o/c limit. Adding voltage will have a very big effect on your temps. So IMHO set the RAM ratio to 5:4 and then try a few FSB mhz at a time testing throughly you are truly stable. O/c'ing the gfx card will EASILY bring you the best returns in gaming perf but it does of course make sense to get that CPU/FSB faster too. First thing you need to do is get the latest drivers and ensure everything runs perfectly stock first.

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Originally posted by Austin
First thing you need to do is get the latest drivers and ensure everything runs perfectly stock first.

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TRUE DAT

P.S. I used to get 15,223 with my ti4600 @ 320/720 with a 3Ghz P4 & IC-7 and not even the best 44.03 drivers. see it here...
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6721489

iam getting like 13,000 ish from my 9600 card running in my shuttle running 2800 xp 512mb corsair ddr 3500!

careful with ur ambient temps aswell dude not just ur chip as shuttles hold a lot of heat and this could be key to lowering ur cpu temps but tbh i dont think 3.0 ghz will be a problem for ya

good luck m8y and may the force be with you

I'm getting 10043 on my system. Which I think is a little low for my spec.

But I am using the drivers that came with the card (catalyst 3.6) and I only built the system a few days ago. I did try and update to Catalyst 3.9's but they make my games hang and crash.

:) Seems a little low gamezfreak, I'd imagine 11000-12000 woud be more like it for your setup. You should still gain more by o/c'ing gfx and ideally CPU but I'd ensure you have the latest drivers (esp mobo & ideally BIOS). CAT3.6 aren't far behind CAT3.9, CAT3.7-3.9 have been more about patching and design than perf gains. You should still find the CAT3.9 work though (certainly if your card is stock), are you removing the old drivers before installing the new?

I get just under 12000 with my Powercolour 9600 Pro in a shuttle XP2500+@3200+ system.

The question is are you really unhappy with speeds and framerates in your games etc? I personally wouldn't bother overclocking your gfx card... your cpu etc is another matter though :)

;) For gaming you'll see by far the biggest gains by o/c'ing the gfx card. P4C 2.6ghz is one heck of a powerhouse stock. Of course the best gains will come from o/c'ing both CPU and gfx card as both have a lot of headroom in them (though are still great stock) ... however where gaming is concerned o/c'ing the gfx card will easily have the most significance.

Well I successfully managed to overclock the Shuttle. I underclocked the RAM to 266MHz and then upped the FSB from 200MHz to 250MHz.

Results:
P4 2.6 @ 3.25GHz

OCZ 3200 RAM @ 160 (i think, which means 320 DDR)

9600Pro @ 500MHz clock and 600Mhz memory.


I updated all the drivers and installed Speedfan. I went to run 3Dmark2001 again but it told me i needed Dierctx 8.1?! :confused: I thought it would run on a dx9.0 system?

Anyways I'm pretty happy despite a slight scare when i threw the FSB up to 258. It didn't boot and there was nothing on the monitor. Not nice. A quick scan of the mobo manual showed the jumper for resetting the bios and a minute or two later she was back to life.

Now i'm off to get my hands on 3Dmark2003.

A quick question about temps and speedfan. I ran Neverwinter nights for a while and let speedfan run in the backround. The chip temps got above 62C quite easily. I guess this isn't too bad but if I'm playing for extended periods this can't be good? Speedfan kicks in above this and the fans whir away.

Its actually quite annoying as the temps get up very quick and speedfan is switching the fan on and off at regular intervals to keep it down. I think i might pick a new 80mm fan unless anyone can suggest anything else?

TIA

:) So you set the RAM ratio from 1:1 (200mhz FSB and 200mhz RAM excluding DDR/QDR) to 3:2 (250mhz FSB and 166mhz RAM). If possible set it to use 5:4 (250mhz FSB and 200mhz RAM) as that will allow your RAM to run as DDR400-PC3200 while allowing you to use 250x4=1000FSB ... yummy!

;) 3Dmark2001 needs the latest build (and or patch) to overcome the problem you seem to have. Older versions of 3Dmark2001 simply looked for DX8/8.1 instead of DX8.0 or higher as it should have. You may need to simply reinstall 3Dmark2001 as it can be quirky even with the latest build/patches.

:D So long as you're stable don't worry too much about reported temps which are only a rough guide anyway. If the inbuilt monitor keeps continuously adjusting the fan you should find a setting in the BIOS or even Windows which allows you to override it either setting it always on a higher speed or reacting to a different temp. Otherwise you may have to increase airflow/ventilation or simply clock your PC lower.

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If possible set it to use 5:4 (250mhz FSB and 200mhz RAM) as that will allow your RAM to run as DDR400-PC3200 while allowing you to use 250x4=1000FSB ... yummy!

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ok i may be slightly confused with what i set it to. In the Bios it allowed me to set the RAM to 266MHz (down from 400). After i overclocked i checked CPUID it showed it running at 160MHz which i figure corresponds to 320? So I am still running within the RAM 400 bounds. Does that mean i should be seting the RAM to 333MHz (i think that's the next option). So that when i run 250 FSB it should be........207 or thereabouts? 414DDR?

Am i right in understanding that the lock up after 250 is due to the chip since the RAM is only running at 320?

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So long as you're stable don't worry too much about reported temps which are only a rough guide anyway. If the inbuilt monitor keeps continuously adjusting the fan you should find a setting in the BIOS or even Windows which allows you to override it either setting it always on a higher speed or reacting to a different temp. Otherwise you may have to increase airflow/ventilation or simply clock your PC lower.

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I should point out that these temps are when the system is not overclocked. 63+ seems a bit high. :(

:confused: 63'C certainly seems a bit high, where are you reading that from? The BIOS is most accurate with Windows apps specific to your mobo being a close second. 3rd party 'Jack of all trades' type apps tend to misreport temps and as said even in the BIOS they are a rough indication only in the first place. The most important thing is stability, if you can get an o/c from 800FSB to 1000FSB you are certainly not running too hot when stock!

:) Some BIOS have different ways of setting async operation of RAM (to FSB). Most common are 1:1, 4:3 and 5:4. At a std FSB of 200mhz (4x200=1000FSB) that translates to RAM speeds of 1:1 / 200mhz (2x=DDR400-PC3200) ... 4:3 / 150mhz (2x=DDR300-PC2400) ... 5:4 / 160mhz (2x=DDR320-PC2600). At an o/c'ed FSB of 250mhz (4x250=1000FSB) they translate to 1:1 / 250mhz (2x=DDR500-PC4000) ... 4:3 / 188mhz (2x=DDR375-PC3000) ... 5:4 / 200mhz (2x=DDR400-PC3200). Those were common ratios for 533FSB mobos, maybe 800FSB mobos do it differently ...

:cool: Okay what you shoud find easiest is if you look at the options you have when stock and calculate the increase relative to the o/c'ed FSB. For example 200mhz FSB (800FSB effective) may allow you to select for the RAM: 200mhz DDR400-PC3200 (1:1), 166mhz DDR333-PC2700 (6:5) or 133mhz DDR266-PC2100 (3:2). Since you're adding 25% to the FSB by going from 200/800 to 250/1000 you could just multiply the RAM mhz or PC number by 1.25. That would mean at 250mhz FSB your RAM when set to PC3200 would be PC4000 (200mhz DDR400), PC2700 would be PC3375 (208mhz DDR416) and PC2100 would be PC2700 (166mhz DDR333). So to get the most out of your PC3200 RAM at 250/1000FSB you would want to set it to 6:5, '333mhz' or 'PC2700' (the speeds that ratio derives at stock 200/800FSB) although you will be slightly o/c'ing it (slower timings or more voltage may be required). You should find a program like SiSoft Sandra can report your RAM speed. Hope this is some help, sorry about the length!

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63'C certainly seems a bit high, where are you reading that from? The BIOS is most accurate with Windows apps specific to your mobo being a close second. 3rd party 'Jack of all trades' type apps tend to misreport temps and as said even in the BIOS they are a rough indication only in the first place.

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why didn't i think of that? of course. I'm using speedfan. there is no reason why that wouldn't be lying to me. I was starting to wonder since every time i rebooted quickly after running NWN and seeing the temp at 63 i'd restart enter the bios and see at 34. that is way to fast to get that cool.

ok can you recommend any other prog with good fan/temp control? dammit, i really like speedfan. I guess i could get an accurate reading and allow for the offset but this could be a bit risky.

thanks

Motherboard Monitor -
http://atomnet.co.uk/?p=programs&search=motherboard

NS

;) Any sw specific to your Shuttle SB61G2 is best, so long as you check it's close to what the BIOS reports it should be fine.

set your ram ratio to 333, and see if you're stable there.

400 @ 800FSB setting = 1:1 ratio = @ 250:250 = DDR500
333 @ 800FSB setting = 5:4 ratio = @ 250:200 = DDR400
266 @ 800FSB setting = 3:2 ratio = @ 250:166 = DDR333

ok problem solved.


333 @ 800FSB setting = 5:4 ratio = @ 249:198 = DDR400

result: 3.25GHz


After that it blue screens and I guess that's the limit. Am i being restricted by the RAM or the P4.

Also I solved the problem with the temps. Since speedfan doesn't automatically label the temperature readings and fans that control them I misread my highest temp reading as my CPU. After checking the BIOS it seems it is more likely the PWM. What is the PWM exactly? I was varying fan 1 to see which temp it affected the most and assumed that would be the CPU. Wrongly I guess.

I tried MBM5 as well. It reported the same temps so the readings are ok. It doesn't let me control the fan speeds so i'm going to stick with speedfan.

I've got speedfan and i'm not sure which one is which for temps :\

It says

Temp one: 49
Temp two: 37

Then when I minimise it - the icon next to the clock displays a "37" which i'm guessing is the CPU temp.

I think the other temp is the actual "core die" of the CPU.

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I've got speedfan and i'm not sure which one is which for temps :\

It says

Temp one: 49
Temp two: 37

Then when I minimise it - the icon next to the clock displays a "37" which i'm guessing is the CPU temp.

I think the other temp is the actual "core die" of the CPU.

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this is the problem. You have to configure the temps yourself. I not going to risk guessing which temp is the CPU there. But when you minimise and there's a temperature reading in the taskbar this does not mean its the CPU. There is an option that allows you to show each one in the taskbar somewhere in the program.

Have you anymore info on your system that you can figure out which is which. What you should try doing is write down the temperatures and reboot and quickly go into the BIOS and goto the "Health" section (if you have one) and get a reading for the the temps it reports. Since they are labelled in the BIOS, just match em up.

I've got this thing that came with my motherboard called "CoreCentre" and that display's different temps. That one says

Core: 51
System: 41

Speedfan stays at 48/37

Well if those temps were to correspond to each other then 48 would be your core temp (CPU?) and 37 is the System temp.

Did you try check the BIOS? Does speedfan only give you these temps? Mine gives 4 separate temperatures and took me a while to figure out which was which. You should have CPU, system, PWM and HD0.

As a rule its best to stick with the software suplied by the manufacturer. Do a serach for it or check for a help file on "corecentre".

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Originally posted by quarryman
Just received and assembled my Shuttle and ran 3Dmark2001 and got the following:

Shuttle SB61G2 20th Anniversary Ed.
P4 2.6GHz 800 FSB
2x256MB OCZ 3200
TYAN 9600 Pro
80 GB Seagate 'cuda IV


My 3Dmark score: 11043

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Ok so whats your new score???

Also, what are your memory timings.

If you have it set by SPD the BIOS might be applying the DDR333 SPD timings since it thinks the memory is at DDR333 which may be too aggressive at the DDR400 speeds. You may need to manual set dram timings to get to the nice round 250/200 number.

regarding pc temps u should always accept the highest as it is much easier to lose a couple of degrees in transition and gaining on ur actual temp is highly unlikely

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Ok so whats your new score???

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I've no way of finding out. When I installed all the drivers and Dx9.0 it gave me an error when i tried to run 3DMark2001 saying it needed Dx8.1 installed. Maybe I have to get an updated version of 3DMark2001 otherwise I'll just use 3DMark2003. This is a bit annoying as I wanted to see the improvement with Dx9.0 and the new Cat drivers. I tried reinstalling 3DMark but no joy. :(

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Also, what are your memory timings.

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I haven't tried changing my memory timings yet but from the Bios they are 2.5, 3, 3, 7. I'm pretty sure that's the order (this is from memory).

What should I try to change first? How do these affect my overclocking limit? Am I not being restricted by the chip?

Thanks,
q

RAM timings are nothing to do with your processor. The better your RAM is the higher speed you can get out of it, with better timings. Changing that to - 2-2-2-2 should give you quite a big increase in speed if your RAM can handle it....

NS

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2-2-2-2

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?!! The 7 can be knocked down to 2? Anyone know a good FAQ on RAM timings and what they do? I'd like to reduce them if the performance increase is worth it. My RAM is OCZ 3200 which should be good for o/cing.

might be worth knocking them down to 2,2,2,6 or maybe even try 2,2,2,11 but 2,2,2,2 would actually slow the memory as the it would not have enough time to read the data and would make a lot of mistakes and then keep repeating the cycle until it was done.

My old machine was set to 2-2-2-7 by default, and I thought it was strange that it let me set it so low, but it did, and I benched it set to 2 and I got a huge increase in speed. Not sure if it is just good RAM or something, but it seemed to work for me...

NS

the ram must have been awesome cos tbh they are the lowest timings i have ever seen in a desktop pc. But if it worked for ya fairplay. btw what ram was it?

Some crappy 128MB stick (now defective) that I picked up ages ago for my Athlon 500mhz System (Slot A). I was supprised it worked, especially when my score went up so much.

Bouncin - Are you in Stourbridge?

NS

pretty close to stourbridge about 2 miles away

From the SPD timings that its on, you probably have this stuff...
http://www.ocztechnology.com/product...r+Dual+Channel

So I would probably leave it there.

You could try it at 2-3-3-7 as that would give you a nice boost.

You probably have an old version of 3dMark2k1.
Have you downloaded the latest patch for it?
http://www.futuremark.com/download/?...001patch.shtml

That will probably fix you up. If not check windows update for any DX9.0 patches/upgrades. Then uninstall 3dMark and download the latest version of the full install, and reinstall.

I want to see the performance boost!! :) (and links!)

;) 3Dmark2001 is very quirky. Do ensure you have the latest build (you can get a 5MBish update file). If still problematic try reinstalling it (or uninstalling then reinstalling). I'm sure that will get it to run. As for RAM timings here's my usual spin ...

;) The CL rating (Cas Latency) is usually quoted with the designed speed of the RAM (eg 333mhz for PC2700) but this and the numbers which (should) follow can be daunting.

:cool: RAM is effectively arranged in rows and columns (much like a spreadsheet) so then CAS is Column Address Strobe, RAS is Row Address Strobe. The RAS, CAS and the RAS-to-CAS latency are basically the time spent waiting to locate, read or write a given area of memory but if a consecutive block of memory is needed the significance of any latency is pretty minimal, so latency is of greatest importance when using memory randomly.

:) The problem is all that's often quoted about latency or RAM timings is the CL number, it's the most important but less than 1/5th of the story. If you line the timings all up you can state a more complete picture. You should get quoted CL2.0 as being 2-2-2-5 (but could also be 2-3-3-7) and CL2.5 as being 2.5-3-3-7. The 1st number is Cas Latency, 2nd RAS Precharge, 3rd RAS-CAS, 4th Act Precharge (IIRC). BIOS' may use diff notations but that's basically the principle and lower is always faster as it means less waiting. Other things to look out for are Command: T1 (faster) or T2 (normal) and Bank Mode: off, 2 (fast) or 4 (faster). Anything to do with Memory holes, caches (not L1 or L2), shadowing and the like should be disabled. AGP Aperture is best at 256MB but there isn't (technically) really a perf hit in going lower, it's only assigned if the system has it free and your gfx card's own RAM 'runs out'. Even though some of these settings enhance perf they can actually hold back the attainable speed (in mhz) so it's worth experimenting.

:( As always there are many factors, CL2.0 is NOT 25% faster in real world performance, even when you isolate the RAM in a test. When you o/c, you can raise some of these 'latency' settings in order to run at a higher mhz. So you may prefer 2-3-3-7 400mhz over the default 2-2-2-5 333mhz for example.

:p These figures are from back in the KT333 era. Anyway at the same clockspeed 2-2-2-5 is rougly 1.5% faster in Sandra's RAM Benchmark than 2.5-3-3-7. It does depend on what you do with the RAM as to the exact perf diff. Sysmark2000 shows a 4% improvement. Quake3 & 3Dmark2001 show 3% improvement. 2-3-3-7 gives pretty much the same perf as running 2.5-2-2-5. It seems modern perf shows bigger gains esp for SktA systems, anyway the most vital number is the first number, CL.

:( If adding a new DIMM to an existing DIMM rem that the limit and timings are dictated by the slower DIMM. 256MB DDR333 CL2.0 coupled with 256MB DDR266 CL2.5 will both effectively be limited to DDR266 CL2.5. Cas Latency should be selectable in the BIOS, SPD is automatic, if you don't find many settings for latency then try the latest BIOS or CTRL+F1 in the BIOS on Gigabyte mobos. If you do raise the speed of your RAM past it's rated speed or lower the timings make 100% certain you are perfectly stable as the consequences can be dire.

;) I'm not saying any of the above is remotely definitive by any means, just what I've gathered from notes I've made coupled with experience.

WAY TOO MUCH INFO!! :) I feel like Im in school!

One more note: timings do make a notably large difference on P4 dual channel systems with FSB running faster than the ram, b/c the FSB/CPU can soak up that extra bandwidth unlike some other systems. For example him.... he's maxed out on a shuttle at 250FSB (highest I believe BIOS lets you go) but his ram is running at 200Mhz DDR400 which should still allow for decent timings.

It has been shown like at PCstats.com's bandwidth vs. latency article. That its better to run at 5:4 than 1:1 or 3:2 at 250FSB.

Ah yes. Its a little clearer now :) So even though I my be limited by the FSB in the shuttle (which I'm pretty sure I am) I can set the timings lower to get an extra boost. Interesting that you say it really gives a good increase.

Just to clarify this is the RAM that's in my rig. You might be able to tell what I can achieve by the specs there. Either way I'll be downloading an updated 3DMark2001 tonight and will retest the system.

Then I'll overclock as much as I can (including the RAM timings) and re-test. Fingers crossed. :)

When this is done what should I use to test if the system is stable? I understand that booting to desktop isn't necessarily evidence that it'll run solid from then on.

Also, should I be concerned about temps when it is overclocked? The shuttle is a little furnace when it gets going. I'm planning on buying a few fans to reduce the noise but also cool it better but I'd imagine I'll have to use Speedfan to keep an eye on things.

;) According to the specs your RAM is designed to run at 2.6v (2.5v is more normal) and 2x200=400mhz or DDR400-PC3200 with 2-2-3-5 timings. You should find if running at 333mhz the timings will tighten and you'll get perf closer to if you were running at 400mhz. As usual you want to keep RAM synced to FSB as much as is possible.

:D To check you're stable it's best to make a DOS boot floppy disk with memory testing sw on it. Most people use Memtest86, using a boot disk means that if your RAM is not stable it won't cause corruption inside Windows. However since Windows handles RAM differently to a DOS program you can still experience instability inside Windows. You may want to run some Windows stress testing sw like Prime95 (torture test). It can be a long and tedious process, just be 100% certain you can run at the speed and timings you choose.

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As usual you want to keep RAM synced to FSB as much as is possible.

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Is this what I'm not doing though? I thought that by setting the RAM to 333MHz I'm acheiving 5:4 ratio, ie not syncing them :confused:

;) Not so important on P4 if you can get a good FSB o/c and still keep the RAM running fast (as in close to DDR400-PC3200 speed). The main problem with running async comes from SktA mobos where many people run the RAM faster than the FSB which can often yield lower perf, only real exception being KT333/400 using 266FSB with asynced DDR333-PC2700 which does yield a very nice 5%ish boost IIRC. Running async should definitely not be a stability issue so long as your RAM does not run out of spec either with its pure mhz (or timings).

the order for BIOS of the IC7 is 2-3-2-5

you're at DDR400 so you should be able to run perfectly with in spec. as 2-2-2-5 is the fastest that you can probably run keep it at DDR400 (5:4) ratio. called DDR333 option in BIOS.

and you can try 2-2-2-5, if not just put it at 2-3-2-5

Ok 3DMark2001 is giving me hassle. Everytime I go to run it now it tells me I need to install Directx 8.1 or higher and all the correct drivers.

I am bang up to date on all the drivers. Cat 3.9, Directx 9.0b. On the advice of some people I even downloaded the most recent version of 3DMark2001. I run it and the message about drivers just pops up.

It tells me it has stored the error in a log file which I'll paste below. It seems to think I don't have dx8.0 installed? I could dig it up on disk but what help would it be installing it over 9.0b?

I'm posting this because it might help solve a few other problems I'm having.

Morrowind seems to crash as soon as I try to leave the boat at the beginning of the game. This problem has been documented and a solution has been suggested has been given but it hasn't worked for me yet.

Call of Duty demo crashes to desktop at a random point during play. I am informed that the VPU has been reset as it wasn't responding to driver commands and could not be recovered. Sometimes I can alt-tab out and close the error and keep playing, othertimes not. This error is documented as well and I will try it but not sure if it will work for the demo.

Although it seems these errors might be able to be fixed it seems problems have been popping up very soon since I have barely got the system 2 weeks. Even my TNT2 was better than this. My old Dell could handle anything I threw at it. :) God I miss those days :(

Application info
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Name 3DMark2001 SE
Build 300

Error log
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DirectX8 not installed.

System info available: yes
Project available: no



System info
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System Info Version 2.2
Installation ID 0x00000000
OEM ID

CPU INFO
CENTRAL PROCESSING UNITS
Manufacturer Intel
Family Pentium® 4
Internal Clock 2.54 GHz
Internal Clock Maximum 2.99 GHz
External Clock 200 MHz
Socket Designation Socket 478
Type <unknown>
Upgrade ZIF Socket
Capabilities MMX, CMov, RDTSC, SSE, SSE2
Version Intel Pentium(R) 4
CPUID 0x00000f29

CACHES
Level 1
Capacity 20 KB
Type Internal
Type Details Synchronous
Error Correction Type <unknown>
Associativity <unknown>

Level 2
Capacity 512 KB
Type External
Type Details Synchronous
Error Correction Type <unknown>
Associativity <unknown>

DIRECTX INFO
DirectX Version 8.0

DIRECTDRAW INFO
DirectDraw Version 5.3.0000000.900

DISPLAY DEVICES
Description Primary Display Driver
Manufacturer ATI Technologies Inc.
Name RADEON 9600 SERIES
Total Local Video Memory 128 MB
Total Local Texture Memory 128 MB
Total AGP Memory 54 MB
Display Driver ati2dvag.dll
Display Driver Version 6.14.10.6396
Driver WHQL Certified Yes
Max Texture Width 2048
Max Texture Height 2048
Max User Clipping Planes 6
Max Active Hardware Lights 8
Max Texture Blending Stages 8
Textures In Single Pass 8
Vertex Shader Version 1.1
Pixel Shader Version 1.4
Max Vertex Blend Matrices 37
Max Texture Coordinates 8
Vendor ID 0x1002
Device ID 0x4150
Sub-System ID 0x000210f1
Revision 0x00

DISPLAY MODES
//leaving this out

TEXTURE FORMATS
//leaving pixel formats out.

3D Capabilities AGP Texturing, Hardware Transform and Lighting, Positional Lights, Subpixel Accurate Rasterizing, Stencil Buffers, Range Fog, Table Fog, Vertex Fog, W-Fog, Specular Gouraud Shading, Anisotropic Filtering, Bilinear Filtering, Point Sampling, Trilinear Filtering, Additive Texture Blending, Dot3 Texture Blending, Multiplicative Texture Blending, Subtractive Texture Blending, Environmental Bump Mapping, Environmental Bump Mapping With Luminance, Cube Mapping, Factor Alpha Blending, Vertex Alpha Blending, Texture Alpha Blending, Texture Clamping, Texture Mirroring, Texture Wrapping, Guard Band Support, Rendering to a Window, N Patches, Mipmap LOD Bias Adjustment, Projected Textures, Volume Textures, Point Primitive Support, Full-Screen Anti-Aliasing, DXT Compressed Textures

DIRECTSHOW INFO
DirectShow Version 6.05.01.0900

REGISTERED DIRECTSHOW FILTERS
........more here
Filter ASX v.2 file Parser
Filter AVI Decompressor
Filter AVI Draw
Filter AVI Splitter
Filter AVI/WAV File Source
Filter BDA MPEG2 Transport Information Filter
Filter Color Space Converter
Filter DV Muxer
Filter DV Splitter
Filter DV Video Decoder
Filter Default DirectSound Device
Filter Default MidiOut Device
Filter DivX Decoder Filter
Filter DivXAntiFreeze
Filter File Source (Async.)
Filter File Source (Netshow URL)
....here....

Filter MPEG Layer-3 Decoder
Filter MPEG Video Decoder
Filter MPEG-2 Demultiplexer
Filter MPEG-2 Sections and Tables
Filter MPEG-2 Splitter
Filter MPEG-I Stream Splitter
Filter Microsoft MPEG-4 Video Decompressor
Filter Microsoft Screen Video Decompressor
Filter Morgan Stream Switcher
Filter Multi-file Parser
Filter NSC file Parser
Filter Ogg Multiplexer
Filter Ogg Splitter
Filter Overlay Mixer2
Filter QT Decompressor
Filter QuickTime Movie Parser
Filter SAMI (CC) Parser
Filter VBI Surface Allocator
Filter VGA 16 Color Ditherer
Filter Video Port Manager
Filter Video Renderer
Filter Vorbis Decoder
Filter WM ASF Reader
Filter WM ASF Writer
Filter WMP CD Filter
Filter WST Decoder
Filter Wave Parser
Filter Windows Media Audio Decoder
Filter Windows Media Multiplexer
Filter Windows Media Pad VU Data Grabber
Filter Windows Media Update Filter
Filter Windows Media Video Decoder
Filter Windows Media source filter
Filter XML Playlist
Filter XviD MPEG-4 Video Decoder

MEMORY INFO
Total Physical Memory 512 MB
Free Physical Memory 371.55 MB
Total Pagefile Memory 1.22 GB
Free Pagefile Memory 1.13 GB

MEMORY ARRAYS
Max Module Capacity 2 GB
Location System Board
Use System
Supported Error D&C None
Supported Speeds <unknown>
Supported Types <unknown>
Supported Voltages <unknown>

MEMORY SLOTS
Installed & Enabled Size 256 MB
Form Factor DIMM
Frequency 0 Hz
Slot A0 [Bank0/1]
Manufacturer
Type SDRAM
Type Details Synchronous
Enabled Size 256 MB
Total Bit Width 64
Data Bit Width 64

Installed & Enabled Size 0 bytes
Form Factor DIMM
Frequency 0 Hz
Slot A1 [Bank2/3]
Manufacturer
Type <unknown>
Type Details <unknown>
Enabled Size 0 bytes
Total Bit Width 0
Data Bit Width 0

MOTHERBOARD INFO
Manufacturer Shuttle Inc
Model FB61R
Version N/A
BIOS Vendor Phoenix Technologies, LTD
BIOS Version 6.00 PG
BIOS Release Date 09/17/2003
BIOS Properties Plug and Play, Flash, AGP

CARD SLOTS
Number 1
Designation PCI0
Type PCI
Characteristics 5.0V, PME Signal
Data Bus Width 32
Details Available, Long
Device Class <unknown>
Device Name
Device Manufacturer
Device Driver Date
Device Vendor ID 0x0000
Device ID 0x0000
Device Sub-System ID 0x00000000
Device Revision 0x00
IRQ 0

Number 2
Designation PCI1
Type PCI
Characteristics 5.0V, PME Signal
Data Bus Width 32
Details In Use, Long
Device Class Network Adapter
Device Name Realtek RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC
Device Manufacturer Realtek
Device Driver Date
Device Vendor ID 0x10ec
Device ID 0x8139
Device Sub-System ID 0x813910ec
Device Revision 0x10
IRQ 18

Number 3
Designation PCI2
Type PCI
Characteristics 5.0V, PME Signal
Data Bus Width 32
Details In Use, Long
Device Class 1394 BUS Controller
Device Name VIA OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller
Device Manufacturer VIA
Device Driver Date
Device Vendor ID 0x1106
Device ID 0x3044
Device Sub-System ID 0x30441106
Device Revision 0x80
IRQ 20

Number 4
Designation PCI3
Type PCI
Characteristics 5.0V, PME Signal
Data Bus Width 32
Details Available, Long
Device Class <unknown>
Device Name
Device Manufacturer
Device Driver Date
Device Vendor ID 0x0000
Device ID 0x0000
Device Sub-System ID 0x00000000
Device Revision 0x00
IRQ 0

Number 0
Designation AGP
Type AGP
Characteristics 5.0V
Data Bus Width 32
Details In Use, Long
Device Class Display Adapter
Device Name RADEON 9600 SERIES
Device Manufacturer ATI Technologies Inc.
Device Driver Date
Device Vendor ID 0x1002
Device ID 0x4150
Device Sub-System ID 0x000210f1
Device Revision 0x00
IRQ 16

SYSTEM DEVICES
Description Intel(R) 82801EB PCI Bridge - 244E
Manufacturer Intel
Vendor ID 0x8086
Device ID 0x244e
Subsystem ID 0x00000000
Revision 0xc2

Description Intel(R) 82801EB LPC Interface Controller - 24D0
Manufacturer Intel
Vendor ID 0x8086
Device ID 0x24d0
Subsystem ID 0x00000000
Revision 0x02

Description Intel(R) 82801EB SMBus Controller - 24D3
Manufacturer Intel
Vendor ID 0x8086
Device ID 0x24d3
Subsystem ID 0xfb611297
Revision 0x02

Description Intel(R) 82865G\PE\P Processor to I/O Controller - 2570
Manufacturer Intel
Vendor ID 0x8086
Device ID 0x2570
Subsystem ID 0x00000000
Revision 0x02

Description Intel(R) 82865G\PE\P Processor to AGP Controller - 2571
Manufacturer Intel
Vendor ID 0x8086
Device ID 0x2571
Subsystem ID 0x00000000
Revision 0x02

Revision 3.0
Rate 4x, 8x (2x enabled)
Aperture Size 3.81 GB
Sideband Addressing supported (enabled)
Fast Write supported (enabled)

MONITOR INFO
MONITORS
Name Dell M770
Manufacturer Dell Computer Corp.
Max Width 0
Max Height 0

POWER SUPPLY INFO
BATTERIES

OPERATING SYSTEM INFO
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP
Version 5.1.2600
Service Pack
Locale IE
Desktop Width 1024
Desktop Height 768
Desktop BPP 32

HARD DISK INFO
HARD DISKS
Name IBM-DTTA-351010
Manufacturer (Standard disk drives)
Capacity 9.44 GB
Model IBM-DTTA-351010
Interface Type IDE

Name ST360021A
Manufacturer (Standard disk drives)
Capacity 55.90 GB
Model ST360021A
Interface Type IDE

Turn off FastWrites in the BIOS AND using SmartGart.

NS

Quote:

---

Turn off FastWrites in the BIOS AND using SmartGart.

NS

---

Can you explain why? I assume smartgart is in the display->settings->advanced section?

Download the "hotfix" for cat 3.9's.

I had the problem of nearly every single game crashing after a few seconds but this hotfix seems to of done the trick.

http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4291.html

That hot fix was only for call of duty, afaik it doesnt effect any other game.

Quote:

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That hot fix was only for call of duty, afaik it doesnt effect any other game.

---

that's true but it might fix a few others at the same time. will try it tonight. even if it does work with COD chances are it won't help 3Dmark, this is a directx issue.......

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Ethos
That hot fix was only for call of duty, afaik it doesnt effect any other game.

---

ALL of my games paused/crashed with 3.9's until I installed this hotfix. They run like a dream now :)

''Name 3DMark2001 SE
Build 300''

try getting build 330 build 300 is not directx 9.0 compatible cant believe u guys didnt spot this on the first line lol

download the patch for build 330 as this is the original version of 3d mark

Quote:

---

''Name 3DMark2001 SE
Build 300''

try getting build 330 build 300 is not directx 9.0 compatible cant believe u guys didnt spot this on the first line lol

download the patch for build 330 as this is the original version of 3d mark

---

dammit. I thought the "SE" part was enough. I got that version off this month's PC Zone coverdisc, was sure it'd be the most recent. thank's for that, i'll get my hands on that build.

Fastwites cause infinite loops and game crashes on lots of systems and give a marginal if even existant improvement in speeds, so it is one of the best things to try.

NS

I said that like 10 posts ago.... TO GET THE LATEST PATCH
(f*ing hard head!)

and if that still doesnt work... try uninstalling it and downloading the latest full download.

If you're not going to pay attention to our advice.... we're going to stop giving it! (nah, we all like to hear ourselves talk too much - especially Austin :) lol )

Are you sure you have DX 9.0? b/c the output file says 8.0

Try downloading DX 9.0b http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/default.aspx

:D Me? I've hardly muttered a work LOL!

;) There should be a small patch (5MB?) to make v300 become v330. Otherwise uninstall then reinstall 3Dmark2001SE (either patched 300->330 or just 330). If a lot of 3D/DX games are playing it up it stinks of problems stemming from old gfx card and/or drivers. Did you fully remove and uninstall everything to do with your old card? It's good practice to backup and do a fresh install once in a while.

Quote:

---

I said that like 10 posts ago.... TO GET THE LATEST PATCH
(f*ing hard head!)

If you're not going to pay attention to our advice.... we're going to stop giving it!

---

look i got 3dmark from 2 different sources. both cover cds. One was was from PCGamer months ago so i can understand it being out of date. So, this week i went out and bought PCZone, the Xmas edition (not xmas 2001 :) ) and installed 3dmark2001 SE. I didn't check the build numbers but as far as i was concerned this was the latest version since it was on this month's cd. not right obviously.

I'm on Dial-up so downloading 30mb files is laborious and i generally rely on cover discs.

Quote:

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There should be a small patch (5MB?) to make v300 become v330.

---

found it. here its 2.7MB so that's the solution.

Quote:

---

If a lot of 3D/DX games are playing it up it stinks of problems stemming from old gfx card and/or drivers. Did you fully remove and uninstall everything to do with your old card? It's good practice to backup and do a fresh install once in a while.

---

yeah its a bit sus since a few things are acting up. I really am as up to date as i can be.
Cat3.9
dx9.0b
installed all the software with the gfx card. checked overheating.
ran dxdiag.
uninstalled everything.
re-installed.

what i'm gonna do tonight is install that "hot-fix" mentioned above. the symptoms match my problem exactly so fingerscrossed. Then finally i'll get some scores. :)

i read and listened to your advice, its just a simple matter of of build confusion. :rolleyes: i should have checked version numbers but not to worry, it'll get it sorted.

thanks again
q

btw, get broadband! :)
you've got a powerhouse machine being strangled on 56k!

So after the patch can you run 3dmark now?

i think i get 14K on my rig?

been a while since I ran it... its all arse anyway.....

also try cat 3.7s as they are the best cats i have used and am still on em currently

Ok finally I've managed to get some results. I installed the 3Mark2001 patch and it ran. I left everything at stock speeds:

2.6GHz
200 FSB
DDR 200MHz (400 in DDR) 2.5,4,4,7
9600Pro 400-clock 598-mem

3DMark2001 11463

So after installing DX9.0b and the Cat 3.9s I've only got a small increase. (See original post for specs and scores)

So on with the overclocking.

3.02GHz
232 FSB
DDR 186MHz 2,3,3,7
9600Pro 500-clock 598-mem this card really overclocks well.

3Mark2001: 13314

A nice increase. So I pushed it a bit more:

3.18GHz
245 FSB
DDR 196MHz 2,3,3,7
9600Pro 520-clock 598-mem not sure how much higher this will go.

3Dmark2001: 13556

It seems from fiddling around with settings that the CPU speed has a marginal effect on the score. The biggest increase seems to happen when the card is overclocked.

When I tried to o/c the FSB higher than above 3Mark would crash to the desktop. Also occasionally it would hang altogether forcing me to reboot. I tried to vary the settings to see if it was the gfx card, cpu or RAM causing the problem but i felt the crashing and rebooting was bad for the system and gave up. I'll try more at another time.

I decided to go try the system o/ced to 3.0GHz and play a few games. Loading up Neverwinter nights I found it would hang after a few seconds of play. This was never a fixed point but occured after a very brief period. This was unusual as NWN had never crashed on me o/ced before.

I dropped the speeds down to stock but it happened again. I tried to check few other games, Morrowind Halo etc but same result. This was really bugging me as I now had good speeds but no stability.

I uninstalled and reinstalled the GFx drivers and now *fingers-crossed* everything is going ok. One other problem was playing a DVD it crashed after about 30mins and blue screened telling me a hard disk error?!! Did chkdsk and hopefully this can be avoided again.

I have also installed the Call of Duty hot-fix and I agree with what someone mentioned above it does seem to fix problems with anumber of other games. the 9600pro seems to stop responding to driver instructions and hangs during a game. It usually crashes to desktop, informs you of the error and then sometimes lets you return to the game! sometimes not. haven't had this in a while so maybe it has been solved.

Lastly a few questions. After o/cing the system i found it would boot to the desktop but occasionally would crash during a game. When it crashes is there any way of telling what caused it? Sometimes it crashes to the desktop other times just hangs.

Is there a log where I can look up what caused it? What is the best program for checking stability? I'm looking for something to test CPU, ram and card? Stress thema dn show the stability? I've heard that if you overclock the gfx card and see something called artifacts then its running too fast. What are these and how do i check for them. Also any advice on what i should try do to improve stability would be great. I should point out that the crashes I have experienced have mostly gone away but i haven't been using the system long enough to test it.

forgot to mention my temps. overclocked the CPU at load doesn't seem to get much higher that 45c with minimal cooling. The PSU seems to get up to 63c. I'm happy enough with this.

Try running the FSB at 800Mhz and (hang on, do u have a 400, 533 or 800Mhz FSB pee4?) and tighten up the memory timings to say 6, 2, 2, 2.5.

Make sure you have locked the PCI / AGP bus speed or you will corrupt data going to it, and other devices and in turn can ruin a perfectly good HDD.

Also, try creating a new user in Windows, like 3Dmark, log out of ur usual user, and log back in under the new user, so you almost get a clean slate of windows.

unload all unneccessary services and unload as much our of RAM as possible.

Try it again....

ignore that - i read the first post. u have an 800Mhz FSB jobby...

anyway.. try what i mention above :)

Quote:

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Try running the FSB at 800Mhz and (hang on, do u have a 400, 533 or 800Mhz FSB pee4?) and tighten up the memory timings to say 6, 2, 2, 2.5.

---

see first post. 800MHz

Quote:

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Make sure you have locked the PCI / AGP bus speed or you will corrupt data going to it, and other devices and in turn can ruin a perfectly good HDD.

---

yup its locked.

Quote:

---

Also, try creating a new user in Windows, like 3Dmark, log out of ur usual user, and log back in under the new user, so you almost get a clean slate of windows.

---

how does that help? are certain drivers only used with specific users or is it that some programs will not run on other user's accounts?

Quote:

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unload all unneccessary services and unload as much our of RAM as possible.

---

there should be no backround programs running. how do i unload the RAM?

Unload as much OUT of ram as possible, like things in your system tray, virus scanners, firewalls etc.

hey, seen as this is a 3d mark 01 topic, ive got a:
P4 2.4C
512 Kingmax DDR 433
Sapphire 9800 np
n i got 11150. Is this ok?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Karl|Neo
hey, seen as this is a 3d mark 01 topic, ive got a:
P4 2.4C
512 Kingmax DDR 433
Sapphire 9800 np
n i got 11150. Is this ok?

---

can you you check it online? i'm getting that with a very similar system. i would have thought you'd get more with a 9800 though.

Quote:

---

Unload as much OUT of ram as possible, like things in your system tray, virus scanners, firewalls etc.

---

sorry, i didn't know what you meant there. yeah minimal backround programs running

No, thats awful, I mean REALLY bad, my GF3 on my Athlon XP 2400+ and PC2100 RAM almost beat that....

Not sure why your score is so crap though. Do you have AA or AF turned on in the Driver settings?

NS

Can you provide a link to your scores? Sometimes you can tell by the scores where you strengths/weaknesses are.

BTW... my computer from almost 2 years ago was scoring 10.8k-12.8k at 2.4Ghz... http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=3102871

I accidentally erased a lot of my old scores.... but that link above was from when I first got my system a year & 9 months ago. With a P4 @ 2.4Ghz, single channel SIS645 mobo, 256MB ram, & GF4ti4600. http://www.crowdcontrolusa.com/overclock/system2.html

Quote:

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Originally posted by chrisf6969
Can you provide a link to your scores? Sometimes you can tell by the scores where you strengths/weaknesses are.

BTW... my computer from almost 2 years ago was scoring 10.8k-12.8k at 2.4Ghz... http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=3102871

I accidentally erased a lot of my old scores.... but that link above was from when I first got my system a year & 9 months ago. With a P4 @ 2.4Ghz, single channel SIS645 mobo, 256MB ram, & GF4ti4600. http://www.crowdcontrolusa.com/overclock/system2.html

---

so you're getting as much with that almost 2 year old system as I am now?!! And that's with an older gfx card and half the RAM? I was beginning so think my scores were ok. :)

basically i'm getting 11k at stock and 13k o/ced. which part is holding me back?

its the 4 pixel lines in the 9600pro ain't it? go on just say it! :)


EDIT: actually i wonder are dx8 cards favoured in the 2001 test? i'm gonna d/l 2003 and see how that goes.

2001 is system based and 2003 is GPU based, so it is best to go with 2001 as something in your PC is not up to scratch....

NS

Where's your link? I want to see how many fps in each game b/c some games are more bandwidth dependent and some are vid card core dependent etc...

My GF4ti4600 only had 4 pipes. and with my P4 at 2.4Ghz single channel SIS645 mobo it was running at 12800 3dmarks after I tweaked it.... (gained about 2000 points from tweaking and newer drivers, etc)

Then later when I upgraded to dual channel mobo and a 2.53 OC'd to 3Ghz I was getting 15200 3dmarks... http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6721489

Now with my current system 2.4 oc'd to 3.6 and GF FX5900 (non Ultra) Im getting 20000+ 3dmarks!

Click my signature link and look at my different system configurations as I've upgraded it over the past almost 2 years.

Hey, thanx night shade, turns out I made a school boy error, had 4x AA n 8x Af on :s, its now back upto a health 15-16000 on '01, n bout 4750 on '03 :D, thanx agen, im no longer rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbisheing my self :D

Quote:

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Originally posted by chrisf6969
Where's your link? I want to see how many fps in each game b/c some games are more bandwidth dependent and some are vid card core dependent etc...

My GF4ti4600 only had 4 pipes. and with my P4 at 2.4Ghz single channel SIS645 mobo it was running at 12800 3dmarks after I tweaked it.... (gained about 2000 points from tweaking and newer drivers, etc)

---

That computer is not connected to the internet so I haven't been able to do any online comparsion. i might see if I can get it to save the data to a file that I can paste up here.

I'm pretty sure that AA etc is off. it says off on the 3dmark program before i run the benchmark but maybe the driver settings have it on. i'll have a look later.

bottom line is that 11000 doesn't seem great for a 2.6GHz P4 and a 9600Pro. The RAM is OCZ so that is pretty good. i'll try messing around with it more.

dont pay any attention to what 3d mark says turn aa and af off through ur drivers

:) 11000 sounds about right for a P4 2.6ghz with 9600PRO and nothing o/c'ed. The gfx card is very good (esp o/c'ed wink wink) but your results wouldn't be much lower with a lesser CPU+mobo. If you o/c your gfx card you should be more of 13-14000, most 9600PRO get from 400/300 to around 525/350. Still outside of sythetics you should find you can play most games in high res with AA+AF turned on and max details ... 3Dmark doesn't indicate there's a problem with your setup so I personally wouldn't worry.

PS. try turning off HT, I've heard that HT causes lower 3dmark 2k1 scores. But I always forget to turn it off when I bench 3dmark2k1. If I ever reinstall Det 44.03 I'll try to run it with HT off. (44.03 are the best for 3dMark2k1 and thats what I got my 20k+ score with)

44.03 are also the dets every1 doubts cos of all the optimisation that took place. so i suggest if using these dets that you install the latest patch to 3d mark01