Persistent freezing issue

[transylvanic]

Firstly, the setup:

CPU: AMD 64 3500+ (939 pin)
MOBO: MSI nForce3 chipset
GPU: ATI Radeon X800 Pro
MEM: 2x Corsair 512MB 200Mhz sticks (I think that's PC3200, kinda rusty)
HDD: WD Raptor 74GB

Now the story:

I built this tower 3 years ago in 2004. The primary problem which has emerged over the last year can be described as 'spontaneous freezing'. It's perplexing since the pc just locks up at spots where it shouldn't. If I'm browsing the web, or doing the lightest work, or very often if i turn it on and don't do anything with it for a while, the thing freezes up on me and I have to reboot it. I can say that if I boot it and not touch anything and come back in 10 minutes, more often than not it's locked up again.


This is the same pc that can withstand 11 hour sessions on far cry. The graphics card therefore can't be the problem, and the CPU can't be the problem since when it crashes there's never any strain on it. Therefore the only real places of concern remain at the memory, hard disk, mobo or power supply.

I'm pretty sure the memory and the hard disk are not the issue since both are top class. Then again, most stability issues arise from the memory sticks, so who knows. Now, it could well be the power supply, since it's the pre-installed one on my Antec case, only 300W.

The mobo has had some wild times too - one time the entire PC wouldnt boot and I was left thinking there was a deep problem for months. Then one day I tried turning it on without the keyboard plugged in, and it came on! Turns out the PS/2 port was ****ing things up. Can you believe that? So, is the crashing just another manifestation of a ****ty mobo? Or is it the PSU? I'm kinda leaning towards wedging all that junk into a Shuttle, but if it's a power deficit I'm facing, that would hardly be constructive.
--
The past two days I tried running it with just one stick of memory, to test out whether there was some issue with the Dual Channel mode or either stick. Tried both sticks, got the same exact issue again.

I've checked that all hardware is properly in its place, and nothing is overheating, I am certain of those things. Everything is operating, it's just got a kink in the system that causes this.

To be clear, I've reinstalled windows 3 times over recently so it's not a virus or a bug. This is basically my thinking on the matter, and I'm pretty stumped. In my view, the only alternative left is to switch to a new mobo and maybe even processor, since I've had three PCs that I've owned, all three with AMD CPUs and have had similar issues with all of them. On the other hand, my laptop and all the machines at work use Intel CPUs and I can tell you I haven't had my laptop crash in the past 3 years. Solid as a freaking rock, which makes it all the more outrageous that my super duper tower should be such a pansy and crash for no god damn reason.

Please offer some advice lads, even wild speculation would be appreciated! Thanks!

[vaughan]

if you only have 1 hard drive, & 1 cd-rom or dvd drive then your PSU should be fine at 300W rating, but that depends on the PSU efficiency.. is the 300W the max rating or the nominal rating. if it's the max rating, then your psu is working above it's nominal (everyday) rating.

a failing hard drive can also produce spontaneous freezing. i have just had an issue with 1 of my drives, the pc kept freezing at random, and the drive light was on constantly on my mobo when it froze.

if you have speedfan, you can check your drives smart values, which would give you a good indication of the drives status. also it might be worth going into commmand line mode by booting up into dos mode (on XP) and running chkdisk to see if it is detecting any faults..

[vaughan]

also another suggestion, might not be but worth a check anyway, check the temperature of the system.. check that all the fans are spinning properly, if there's dust on them get a little brush & hoover out and get rid of the dust.. it's probably not that tho, but it's 1 other thing to try.

[sparkle999]

Firstly, the setup:
even wild speculation would be appreciated!

Could be software? I had a similar sounding problem a while back - running XP and I installed the desktop search component (so you get quick searches like vista). Got the same symptoms - random freezing forcing reboot. Backing that change out solved the problem.

Well, you did ask for wild speculation!

Hope it helps and good luck
sp.

[speardane]

I have had more odd problems from iffy PSUs than anything else. (memory is second). Disk drives fail all to obviously...

you've checked the memory.

can you borrow a PSU (PS if you buy a new one check it is backwards & forwards compatible - the ATX spec has changed and requires an extra Mobo connector - I learnt that the expensive way...).

though I agree with above cleanliness & software etc.... all worth checking

[transylvanic]

Thanks so much for all the suggestions, guys.

I have had more odd problems from iffy PSUs than anything else. (memory is second). Disk drives fail all to obviously...

I am very much inclined to agree that iffy PSU voltages or capacity can lead to instability. But you've gotta think those things would arise when you're stressing the PSU. I get freezes when everything is idling.

I believe I have managed to pinpoint the problem to the mobo. Today I went through the giant pain in the ass of switching in an older but working WD hard drive and testing with it. Got the same issue with it, and this drive is PATA, which means different power and mobo connectors, thus eliminating any faulty cable issues. All important fans spin up and everything seems to work fine, got a big fat zalman heatsink on the CPU so it's kept at a pretty cool temp. I even touched the heatsink to test if there's good heat dispersion after using the computer for a while, and yep heatsink was warm all over. So it's not a case of a bad connection between the chip and heatsink whereby the chip might overheat.

Nope, finally today messing with the HDs, I noticed that there's a fan on the mobo which doesn't actually spin up when it's turned on. I think it's on the north or south bridge, has a teeny heatsink on it, but presumably really needs the fan in order for it not to overheat. I've no idea when this thing stopped spinning, it did when i first put the thing together. But my question is, does an overheating north/south bridge typically lead to this sort of freeze-up?

It's pretty much unfixable since the fan plugs into the mobo itself. I was already thinking of buying a new mobo, so this just confirms my suspicions. Now I have yet another favour to ask - could someone with more seniority than I check the trading forum to see if there are any shuttle SN95G5s available? It's the only thing that matches up the rest of my hardware and it's pretty much impossible to find nowadays.

Sorry for being so prosaic

[pp05]

Thanks so much for all the suggestions, guys.



I am very much inclined to agree that iffy PSU voltages or capacity can lead to instability. But you've gotta think those things would arise when you're stressing the PSU. I get freezes when everything is idling.

I believe I have managed to pinpoint the problem to the mobo. Today I went through the giant pain in the ass of switching in an older but working WD hard drive and testing with it. Got the same issue with it, and this drive is PATA, which means different power and mobo connectors, thus eliminating any faulty cable issues. All important fans spin up and everything seems to work fine, got a big fat zalman heatsink on the CPU so it's kept at a pretty cool temp. I even touched the heatsink to test if there's good heat dispersion after using the computer for a while, and yep heatsink was warm all over. So it's not a case of a bad connection between the chip and heatsink whereby the chip might overheat.

Nope, finally today messing with the HDs, I noticed that there's a fan on the mobo which doesn't actually spin up when it's turned on. I think it's on the north or south bridge, has a teeny heatsink on it, but presumably really needs the fan in order for it not to overheat. I've no idea when this thing stopped spinning, it did when i first put the thing together. But my question is, does an overheating north/south bridge typically lead to this sort of freeze-up?

It's pretty much unfixable since the fan plugs into the mobo itself. I was already thinking of buying a new mobo, so this just confirms my suspicions. Now I have yet another favour to ask - could someone with more seniority than I check the trading forum to see if there are any shuttle SN95G5s available? It's the only thing that matches up the rest of my hardware and it's pretty much impossible to find nowadays.

Sorry for being so prosaic

Fan that stopped working, you can replace that with just a heatsink. That's what I did.