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Thread: Failing to burn DVDs

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    I can practically feel the spittle.

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbait View Post
    Where in the forum rules does it prohibit this?
    You probably want the FAQ cretin section

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbait View Post
    I agree but there's no need to be so harsh on yourself.
    Projection can cloud, as well as the wearing of to much nylon, must be the pom pom attire



    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbait View Post
    It allows non-enthusiast users, who greatly outnumber enthusiasts to quickly and easily determine if their burn was (most likely) completed successfully. For those who aren't too busy admiring their own greatness in the mirror this is a very useful feature.
    The caveats that you throw in almost certainly show you have less the 100% backing for this process "(most likely) " "(note, not a guarantee) " Lets elaborate on "easily determine if their burn was (most likely) completed successfully" If nero does verify your burn you consider it a good burn fit for archival purposes, if it does not, what do you do, do you bin it?



    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbait View Post
    That's very thorough of you but 99% of domestic users (non-commercial) do not need or want this level of verification. Most people simply want to burn stuff and the biggest problem they face is either losing or damaging the media. For these regular folk a simple “Nero verification” is all they need 99% of the time and thus it’s far from being a pointless procedure.
    So we are down to numbers now, 99-1 for non enthusiasts/enthusiasts, what do you base these figures on? It is not thorough it is bourne of tried and tested methods supported by the community, if I read that nero verify/pif/pie/jitter/trt was the way to go and was supported, I would do it, that is why I asked for a link. These "regular folk" you keep going on about, you know "the 99%" I would hazzard a guess that if they verify with nero, they probably have no idea that it can be unchecked, all blank media is created equal and there media will last.

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    First of all, I would salvage one of the burned discs, pop it in the lite-on dh, using nero cd-dvd
    Nero CD-DVD Speed website

    Run a TRT scan, nero cd-dvd/run test/transfer rate, you are looking for a nice arch graph
    Here is the graph...


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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Looks perfect, small tip file/options/transfer rate, change the max speed dvd to 17. Next try a pie/pif scan, nero cd-dvd/disc quality/select either 4x or 8x there is a train of thought that the lh/dh drives scan better at 4x

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    The caveats that you throw in almost certainly show you have less the 100% backing for this process "(most likely) " "(note, not a guarantee) " Lets elaborate on "easily determine if their burn was (most likely) completed successfully" If nero does verify your burn you consider it a good burn fit for archival purposes, if it does not, what do you do, do you bin it?
    For non-critical data backups, yes I consider a successful Nero verification fit for archival. Since the vast majority of my burns fall into this category I do not perform further verification. It’s a simple balance of importance versus time in my books. My Nero verification failures are few and far between with decent media with a 1% failure rate being about right. For the sake of 1 in 100 CD’s or DVD’s being wasted or binned I’m not too concerned. Of the 99% that do pass Nero verification none have failed yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    So we are down to numbers now, 99-1 for non enthusiasts/enthusiasts, what do you base these figures on? It is not thorough it is bourne of tried and tested methods supported by the community, if I read that nero verify/pif/pie/jitter/trt was the way to go and was supported, I would do it, that is why I asked for a link. These "regular folk" you keep going on about, you know "the 99%" I would hazzard a guess that if they verify with nero, they probably have no idea that it can be unchecked, all blank media is created equal and there media will last.
    The numbers are arbitrary for sake of discussion but if you want to be anal about it, please feel free to produce alternate figures and we’ll re-evaluate the points if it proves to be significant.
    The community you refer is made up of informed enthusiasts is it not? Reality check, not everyone is informed or an enthusiast nor do they wish to be. Am I arguing that your methods are not the best? No. Do I think it’s overkill for a lot of people? Yes. There are always different approaches to everything and doing it the best way is not always a priority or even of relevance to everyone.
    Did anyone actually ask what the best way to archive data via optical media is? No, so I wonder why we’re even discussing this. To the OP, sorry that your thread has been hijacked and I hope you get to the root of your burning woes.

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbait View Post
    For non-critical data backups, yes I consider a successful Nero verification fit for archival. Since the vast majority of my burns fall into this category I do not perform further verification. It’s a simple balance of importance versus time in my books. My Nero verification failures are few and far between with decent media with a 1% failure rate being about right. For the sake of 1 in 100 CD’s or DVD’s being wasted or binned I’m not too concerned. Of the 99% that do pass Nero verification none have failed yet.
    Non critical is not archival


    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbait View Post
    The numbers are arbitrary for sake of discussion but if you want to be anal about it, please feel free to produce alternate figures and we’ll re-evaluate the points if it proves to be significant.
    You mean off the top of your head, with no substance. I have no need to produce any figures, I did not use them so have no need to "produce" would probably have been appropriate for afore mentioned caveat, saves the back pedling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbait View Post
    The community you refer is made up of informed enthusiasts is it not? Reality check, not everyone is informed or an enthusiast nor do they wish to be. Am I arguing that your methods are not the best? No. Do I think it’s overkill for a lot of people? Yes. There are always different approaches to everything and doing it the best way is not always a priority or even of relevance to everyone.Did anyone actually ask what the best way to archive data via optical media is? No, so I wonder why we’re even discussing this.
    It is about whether nero verify is pointless or not, at this moment I have been given nothing to challenge/change/inform me otherwise, I reiterate if nero verify is an intergral part of scanning method and supported, I would like to read about it,what is so hard to understand about that request.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbait View Post
    Did anyone actually ask what the best way to archive data via optical media is? No, so I wonder why we’re even discussing this.
    You and others are advocating if a disc fails nero verify, it is junk, that is just errenous

  7. #39
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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    Time/errenous results, lack of support from the dvd/community for this type of scan, the reason I asked for a link, is to see why this has/is become a fundamental test in burned media.
    Erroneous results from this scan?
    Do you have any proof that the Nero verification Scan is unable to do so reliably? I visit the same forums as yourself and have never seen this to be an issue. In fact if Nero were unable to get something so basic as a binary check between a file written to disk and one on the hard drive, I'd imagine it would make them the laughing stock of the community. It is after all little more than one or two standard programming functions in any language I can think of.

    Oh, and since when did the "community" need to "support" an integral feature of a program for it to work. What part exactly does a community play in a few functions that cross check binary data between two devices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    Linkage, is required to verify YOUR post as to why this has/is become a fundamental test in burned media. Your link mentions nothing about nero verify, or indeed absolutely nothing regarding its usage and reliability as a benchmark test of blank media
    There is simply no way I can "prove" that the Nero verification method works as intended, because quite simply, its not something that people are going to investigating unless there is someone bring an issue to light. People don't make posts on forums saying "Hey look, this part of the program works"....for any application unless it was previously broken.

    Now, I've just spent the best hour of Googling and I can find absolutely nothing to suggest that the part of the program that deals with verification does not work properly. Ironically, this is the only thread I can find which makes reference to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    Let me make this clear to you, you categorically dismissed nero verify as not pointless, you have since then lead with what nero verfiy actually does, I am not questioning what nero does or does not. I would like to know when it became the enthusiast benchmark of blank media that you seem to think it is, simple
    Enthusiast benchmark for blank media? Please quote me on where I made such a statement.
    By the same admission, you're the one as dismissed it as pointless, yet are still unable to answer the following points:

    • Without verification by Nero, how do you propose that the user checks the integrity of the files written with the ones on the harddisk?
    • Provide any evidence, at all, that the verification process of Nero has a problem
    • Offer a reason on why you told the OP that verification is "pointless", then ask him to do a pie/pif scan....which would not show if the written data was valid.


    What would you consider evidence that the verification process in Nero works fine, out of curiosity?
    Do you have the same opinion of verification in Imgburn too, or does that program pass some criteria (and if so, which?) that Nero does not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    I claimed it was a pointless scan, I have now expressed why I think it is. I have yet to be informed as to why nero verify is Far from pointless, not what it does or does not.
    It is far from pointless, because as pointed out several times now, it offers a way for the user to be sure that the data written to disk is the same data that is on the harddisk.
    Unless you can prove that there is an issue with the actual process of verification, please tell us why it is pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    You and others are advocating if a disc fails nero verify, it is junk, that is just errenous
    Can you elaborate on this point a bit more please, as this is essentially what the discussion is about.
    If I write data to a disk, Nero then checks this data and finds a discrepancy between whats on the disk and whats on the harddrive then as far as I am concerned the disk is junk. The data does not match what should be there.
    Not an issue with Video as it'll just show an artefact / be ignored by the player / whatever, If however this is data in a finance spreadsheet for example and £10,000 suddenly becomes £1,000 due to an error writing the file, that is an issue for me. Granted, I would be using other methods to verify such important data was intact, I am using it just to illustrate an extreme here.
    I'd be interested in hearing the defence as to why this data shouldn't be considered junk
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    stuff
    The buffet has been served, drink drank, about 3hrs late to the party, you may however find some sundries left in the kitchen.

    If you have a link, I read it

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    Looks perfect, small tip file/options/transfer rate, change the max speed dvd to 17. Next try a pie/pif scan, nero cd-dvd/disc quality/select either 4x or 8x there is a train of thought that the lh/dh drives scan better at 4x
    This is the quality scan at 4X



    Same disc but now at 8x



    This is on the same disc that was used for the Transfer Rate Test that failed CRC32 check and inbuilt burner validity check.

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    The buffet has been served, drink drank, about 3hrs late to the party, you may however find some sundries left in the kitchen.

    If you have a link, I read it
    You keep asking for this magical link - then fail to say what you would like in it, what would make it valid, or offer any reasonable debate/input into previous comments you have made.

    What's the point of posting on discussion forums if you're not willing to discuss anything, mealy make a statement then walk away with your fingers in your ears and ignore any other input offered?

    Here was me thinking we were all here for the same thing: The pursuit of knowledge
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    You can see around -3.0+ the huge spikes, can you see any blemishes/dark marks on the disc

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    Non critical is not archival
    Yes, and? How many people here archive their data based on your definition? How many actually care for day to day purposes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    You mean off the top of your head, with no substance. I have no need to produce any figures, I did not use them so have no need to "produce" would probably have been appropriate for afore mentioned caveat, saves the back pedling.
    Back peddling? That would imply their accuracy is critical to the discussion. I have already stated it is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    It is about whether nero verify is pointless or not, at this moment I have been given nothing to challenge/change/inform me otherwise, I reiterate if nero verify is an intergral part of scanning method and supported, I would like to read about it,what is so hard to understand about that request.
    What you’re missing is perspective. For Nero verification to be pointless it would have to serve no function. There have been plenty of examples of the benefit it provides, just reread the previous threads if you can’t see it. Is Nero verification pointless to you? Appears so. Is Nero pointless to others? Atleast on this thread it appears not. If you need me to spell it out using the evidence on this thread only: Some users believe Nero verification is useful enough to determine if a burn was successful or not.

    No one has stated that Nero verification “is an integral part of scanning” so please stop introducing issues that no one is actually debating here. This goes a long way into explaining why no one has provided the proof you have requested since (listen carefully now) no one is debating that “fact”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Tractor View Post
    You and others are advocating if a disc fails nero verify, it is junk, that is just errenous
    I’m not sure if you simply don’t comprehend or too busy trying to soap box to notice but NO ONE on this thread is advocating that if a disc fails Nero verification that it is junk. Do “I” treat a disc as junk if it fails Nero verification? Yes, because my time is more important than a few pence wasted on burning the disc again. Do I care that the burn may be fine and Nero has indicated otherwise? Not really for reasons covered in my previous post. Do you care? Maybe, seems so and that’s your prerogative.

    For Nero verification to be deemed pointless the results of the verification would need to be irrelevant. This would suggest they’re random or so unreliable that it could not be trusted.

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  14. #45
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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    There are no marks on the disc that I can see.

    Is any of this conclusive proof that the TDK media is mainly junk?

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbait View Post

    I’m not sure if you simply don’t comprehend or too busy trying to soap box to notice but NO ONE on this thread is advocating that if a disc fails Nero verification that it is junk. Do “I” treat a disc as junk if it fails Nero verification? Yes
    Excuse me, you say that you are not advocating to junk the disc via a nero verify fail, then go on to say that you do

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Do you have any proof that the Nero verification Scan is unable to do so reliably?
    Actually, it seems Nero 6.6.0.1 potentially had a problem but we're going back to 2004/2005. Here's the first link I found on Google about it: Nero 6.6.0.1 Red Verify Errors! Please help... - Club CD Freaks - Knowledge is Power. There are lots more for that particular version but I don't think we're talking about version 6.x are we? I'm on Nero 7 and haven't gotten around to installing 8 yet.

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    Re: Failing to burn DVDs

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyhead View Post
    There are no marks on the disc that I can see.

    Is any of this conclusive proof that the TDK media is mainly junk?
    Depends on who it is made by/batch etc, you can see the mid top right of quality scan

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