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Thread: HEXUS Poll :: Head2Head on price - who's the DX10 winner ?

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    HEXUS Poll :: Head2Head on price - who's the DX10 winner ?

    Interesting question this - with AMD having recently launched their 'R600' series of cards we are keen to know what you guys think is the best DX10 winner, and rather than going high end we want to hit the performance mainstream sector.

    So current, in stock pricing from SCAN - 512MB Power Color HD 2900 XT - £245.92 or 640MB Leadtek 8800GTS - £240.31 which would you pick up? Let us know in the HEXUS poll on the front page, and post your comments in this thread!

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Need more drivers!

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    Senior Member Andrzej's Avatar
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    I found many of the reviews on the new R600 technology very confusing

    Given that the 2900XT and the 8800GTS 640MB cards are almost exactly the same price...

    ...why any one/site/mag decided to include the GTX card (which can be £100 more) is beyond me

    No matter how much journalists want to line up products with vastly different price points...

    ...I don't think that is the way that most people buy

    For one thing - every time you 'raise the price bar by £50' - you remove a VAST chunk of the market, in terms of how many people want to make that purchase

    The overwhelming majority of sales happen at the <£100 mark and very few happen above £300

    To get an idea of the 'curve', you need to look at the data on the last SteamPowered survey which polled around 1,160,000 gamers on their product choices (through plug 'n' play - rather than actual Q&A - so FAR more accurate!)

    Top nVidia card was the 6600 - with around 101,000 users

    The 'top spec' nVidia card was the 7900 with 35,000 users

    That is around a 3:1 ratio

    To get real perspective, look at the number of SLi users (i.e. gamers with more than 1 GPU in their system) - which is only 16,000

    The 'top of the NV range cards' - the 8800 series - scored only 9,800 (admittedly this is skewed significantly because the card had not been out long - but the point is still valid)

    6600: 101,000
    7900: 35,000
    SLi: 16,000
    8800: 9,800

    As price increases - sales drop off drastically

    To get a handle on this yourselves - check out any PC World store when you are bored on a Sunday - and see what the proportion of cards is (by price) on the shelf

    Specifically, how many cards are offered at £300 and above


    This poll should be interesting, because it matches up products at a similar price point in the mind of you - the high tech buyer !

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    Herr Doktor Oetker, ja!!! pollaxe's Avatar
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    I suppose you could make the argument that because the R600 was supposed to be an 8800 killer then the 8800 GTX is included..?

    However your point about cost is salient: I always buy the best card I can afford at the time, back in December it was the 8800 GTX. I'm actually disappointed in the R600 line up so far, I prefer healthier competition between the manufacturers (it's better for the market and us poor consumers generally) and the 8800 GTX is extremely overpriced and it doesn't look like that's going to change in the short term. JMHO, of course.
    Last edited by pollaxe; 30-05-2007 at 09:17 AM.

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    Bania, thats some great statistics but haven't you missed the point that the review is *supposed* to be comparing the new card against others across the market. Regardless of weather it outperformed/underperformed cards of difference prices, should the prices change for whatever reason your arguement falls down.

    Given that Hexus takes into account current market conditions when reviewing (price/performance ratios) takes your point into without compromising other valuable information.

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    I honestly believe that with newer drivers, the 2900 XT will seriously pick up speed.

    Even now, it trounces the GTS in certain benchmarks (and on ocassion, even the GTX), only to be illogically beaten (marginally) by the GTS in others? I think the reality is the drivers are crappy and need a lot of work.

    Watch this space.
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    HEXUS.social member finlay666's Avatar
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    the DAAMIT card needs better drivers, less power consumption, less heat output, onboard video thingies (name escapes me, said it would have it but it doesnt), and a better price tag
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    Senior Member mcmiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Need more drivers!
    and games

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    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
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    ....and many people are still banging on about the nVidia drivers needing work as well.

    Seems like a fairly even playing field to me.
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    The real reason the the R600 is not competing the way the specs on paper prove it should is not because of drivers but because of games...

    Games don't effectively utilize the excessive shaders that ATI have or the larger ring bus and therefore with Nvidia pumping processes through less shaders at higher speeds they are able to beat the ATI cards, but on some reviews people in the know have realised that when a game with better shader support is used the performance increase is drastic with the R600 hence it beating the GTX sometimes... this to me is reason enough to purchase the HD2900XT over the 8800GTS purely because later on it should pwn.

    When PCI-Express doesn't bottleneck the cards capabilities in terms of data transfer then the R600 will really come into stride but alas it is before its time and just like DaVinci's ideas it will never be recognised for its design.

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    I love ATI/AMD..but i'll prolly jump ship to nVIdia for the next card. I just dont see the ATI product as cutting the mustard at the mo

    Which guts me...as I do love my ATI and AMD stuff.

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    personally I would like to see the r600 mature as time goes by and i do reckon it will beat the 8800gtx in the long run.

    It has the tessellation thingamajig which at the moment isnt something to brag about but if you look at it this way where as the person who buys a graphic card will keep it for three years then its good news , where the 8800gtx will become old and grey

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    I'll go for 8800GTS. 2900 produces too much heat.

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    By the looks of things, the 8x00 series has got a head-start. The r600 line by ATI/AMD hasn't performed up to standard in benchmarks enough to justify the purchase at the moment. With the release of DX10 games, performance should be more functional to comparison.

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    Senior Member Andrzej's Avatar
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    Traditional graphics development cycles mean that updated parts are squeezed out around once every 6-10 months

    i.e. If the final silicon for 8800 was released in/around October 2006, then (if under heavy pressure from ATI/AMD) nVidia should have been in a position to sample press with an '8900' around April/May 2007

    For 'whatever reasons', ATI's now departed Dave Orton changed strategy and decided not to go for the 'king of the hill performance' with the 2900XT

    As a result, the 8800 GTX/Ultra has not been knocked off top spot

    Which means that nVidia could slow down their releases and probably focus a lot more effort on their next generation products with support for advanced features like DX10.1 etc

    Will be interesting to see what happens next in this market - AND how the battleground looks from October onwards as we head into the ultra-busy Xmas season
    Last edited by Andrzej; 23-07-2007 at 09:14 AM.
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    There names were what and where and why and how and when and who.


    (I also had the HEXUS forums on speed dial just in case )

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