Opera files antitrust suit against Microsoft

[usxhe190]

if I don't have IE, i won't be able to download Opera as my default browser...

not sure what the antitrust terms are, but people should be able to uninstall IE (but then since IE and OS is so close together...maybe not)..

[moogle]

if I don't have IE, i won't be able to download Opera as my default browser...

not sure what the antitrust terms are, but people should be able to uninstall IE (but then since IE and OS is so close together...maybe not)..

the guys like opera are saying have windows come with their os as setup files, so the user can choose etc.

[Lucio]

What these companies are really trying to do is to get MS to pay them royalties to include their software. Think about it, even if the licence fee was 1 cent per copy, multiplied by all those copies of Windows equals lots of revenue without having to do any work!

[b0ned0me]

is there actually any truth to that? like can we actually find out that microsoft's prices are less because of ie and wmp? or is it just a theory.

Less? If only. Like I said, they develop WMP and IE and give it away for free, to prevent anyone else gaining control of the layer between the OS and the user. All that dev effort has to be paid for by someone, and it gets paid for by people who buy other MS products, just like the giant money-pit of XboX gets paid for by all those companies who buy Windows and Office. Unless Microsoft have somehow figured out a way to do all the development and support of IE/WMP for free, that is.

the guys like opera are saying have windows come with their os as setup files, so the user can choose etc.

No they're not. They're saying "we develop our browser for pretty much every platform there is but we can't get a significant foothold in the Windows market because IE are illegally cross-subsidising their browser with monopoly profit and bundling it with their monopoly operating system, in exactly the same way it killed netscape". Whether anyone buys the argument is another matter. MS have gotten their wrists slapped for this type of behaviour so many times I've lost track, but they've never actually been punished in any significant way.

Oh, and for those who say its impossible to do - Apple throw in Safari with OSX, but if you want to bin it in favour of Firefox OSX doesn't give a toss. It's just a deletable application. All the software update, file viewing etc. still works fine. Trying to get IE off a windows machine is like trying to get rid of herpes, and if you succeed you find that bits of Windows and some MS websites are hard-coded to only work properly with IE.

[moogle]

Less? If only. Like I said, they develop WMP and IE and give it away for free, to prevent anyone else gaining control of the layer between the OS and the user. All that dev effort has to be paid for by someone, and it gets paid for by people who buy other MS products, just like the giant money-pit of XboX gets paid for by all those companies who buy Windows and Office. Unless Microsoft have somehow figured out a way to do all the development and support of IE/WMP for free, that is.


No they're not. They're saying "we develop our browser for pretty much every platform there is but we can't get a significant foothold in the Windows market because IE are illegally cross-subsidising their browser with monopoly profit and bundling it with their monopoly operating system, in exactly the same way it killed netscape". Whether anyone buys the argument is another matter. MS have gotten their wrists slapped for this type of behaviour so many times I've lost track, but they've never actually been punished in any significant way.

i rephrased my original post. i was talking about if there was no browser on the os, how would we get a browser in the first place?

yes they are saying that...

In an official statement, Opera states it "requests the Commission to obligate Microsoft to unbundle Internet Explorer from Windows and/or carry alternative browsers preinstalled on the desktop".

did you read the article?

they should just make ie uninstallable without harming the os. I don't feel they should just remove it because its unfair competition, hey its their freaking OS. but things like opening hotmail from msn messenger not being able to change stuff like that does get annoying.

[b0ned0me]

i rephrased my original post. i was talking about if there was no browser on the os, how would we get a browser in the first place?

Dunno, how do we go about creating spreadsheets without having Excel built into the OS? Or perhaps you are a little unclear about the distinction between applications and operating systems?

did you read the article?

No, because it's not necessary to read it. It's exactly the same tedious nonsense thats happened over and over again and I'm bored with reading about it. MS do something, someone whinges about it, nothing happens, the world moves on. This has been replayed every few years since at least 1993 to absolutely no end result - I don't know why anyone bothers any more.

they should just make ie uninstallable without harming the os.

what, you mean they should just

unbundle Internet Explorer from Windows

did you even read your own quote

[moogle]

Dunno, how do we go about creating spreadsheets without having Excel built into the OS? Or perhaps you are a little unclear about the distinction between applications and operating systems?

Yes and everyone really wants to go use excel or spreadsheet software. thats how we connect to the net isnt it... I'm not unclear but if the OS comes without a browser just how do you expect to get on the net?

No, because it's not necessary to read it. It's exactly the same tedious nonsense thats happened over and over again and I'm bored with reading about it. MS do something, someone whinges about it, nothing happens, the world moves on. This has been replayed every few years since at least 1993 to absolutely no end result - I don't know why anyone bothers any more.

yes it is necessary to read as I said opera wants their browser included as a choice in the os as a setup file and you go no it isn't. it says right there so. im referring to this article as this thread is related to it.

what, you mean they should just

yes i mean they should just, i dont have any other problems with windows. having ie unistallable and using firefox for everything including clicking emails in windows live messenger and having them opening in firefox without a 3rd party mod would be just great.

[SiM]

Lol, Microsoft will easily win this time... moogle is right - it would be so inconvenient to have to download an installer on a separate computer or purchase a CD of opera/IE...

IE is very useful to have on new computers... its the first thing I use on new installs... I go to mozilla.com using IE to get firefox

[moogle]

IE is very useful to have on new computers... its the first thing I use on new installs... I go to mozilla.com using IE to get firefox

same here, don't tell me because some people can't do that opera wants in.

[awm]

I'd have to say I fall into the camp that says you should be able to uninstall IE properly (with changes to the OS, which should increase security if done right). Then its simple. Install Windows, download a better browser, uninstall IE. It would make me happy.

[Sinizter]

Why should MS be forced to bundle someone else's product with their OS?

Making IE modular enough to be removed without learning how to reprogram an OS should be enough. But it should be installed out of the box. How am I supposed to get Fireforx without a browser ? Telnet ?