Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 23

Thread: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

  1. #1
    HEXUS.admin
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    31,709
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    2,073 times in 719 posts

    Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    Consumers send out a message to ISPs considering adopting the Phorm advertising system.
    Read more.

  2. #2
    Senior Member chrestomanci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    1,614
    Thanks
    94
    Thanked
    96 times in 80 posts
    • chrestomanci's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus AMD AM4 Ryzen PRIME B350M
      • CPU:
      • AMD Ryzen 1600 @ stock clocks
      • Memory:
      • 16Gb DDR4 2666MHz
      • Storage:
      • 250Gb Samsung 960 Evo M.2 + 3Tb Western Digital Red
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Basic AMD GPU (OSS linux drivers)
      • PSU:
      • Novatech 500W
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Sugo SG02
      • Operating System:
      • Linux - Latest Xubuntu
      • Monitor(s):
      • BenQ 24" LCD (Thanks: DDY)
      • Internet:
      • Zen FTTC

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    There is a technical explanation of how phorm tracks you on lightBlueTouchPaper.org

    Light Blue Touchpaper » Blog Archive » The Phorm “Webwise” System

    From the explanation it looks like it would be a good idea for someone to write a Firefox plug in or suchlike to randomly change the Phorm cookie so as to poison their database, which should make Phorm unpopular with the advertisers they are selling the data to, so they go out of business.

  3. #3
    radix lecti dave87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    12,806
    Thanks
    657
    Thanked
    931 times in 634 posts
    • dave87's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus
      • CPU:
      • i5 3470k under Corsair H80 WC
      • Memory:
      • 8gb DDR3
      • Storage:
      • 240gb SSD + 120gb SSD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus HD7950
      • PSU:
      • XFX 600w Modular
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-A05FNB + Acoustipack
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2x Dell S2309W (1920x1080)
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity Option 2

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    Yup, I certainly would (and in a few months time will be out of contract, so can do so if I wish)

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    8
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    0 times in 0 posts
    • Erkal's system
      • Motherboard:
      • msi nforce2
      • CPU:
      • Athlon xp2000+
      • Memory:
      • 2gb
      • Storage:
      • 2x 80gb western digital and 1 160gb western digital
      • Graphics card(s):
      • geforce 6600gt
      • PSU:
      • corsair hx520
      • Case:
      • Quantex
      • Monitor(s):
      • Iiyama MA203DT
      • Internet:
      • 8Mbit plus lots of tiscali cant find server badness

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    If carphone warehouse do buy out tiscali i would imagine they will roll phorm out across the tiscali network also.
    if that happens i will definately get a Mac code and find a new ISP

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    2002
    Posts
    221
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked
    13 times in 9 posts

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    does ofcom know about this???

  6. #6
    Senior Member Andaho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    241
    Thanked
    8 times in 8 posts
    • Andaho's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS iX2 GTXS
      • CPU:
      • XC18650 4.2GHz 10664FSB 16 Core
      • Memory:
      • 64GB (2x32GB sticks) PC21320 Corsair Domititan Magnetic RAM 0 latency
      • Storage:
      • 16TB Western Digital SATAV 28800RPM Ultra Edition 1GB Cache
      • Graphics card(s):
      • XFX AMD 9985GTS LP 25Watt
      • PSU:
      • 150W Corsair
      • Case:
      • Lian-Li Aluminium ABX-951
      • Monitor(s):
      • SG-942IPS 42" 3840x2160 0.01ms 5,000,000,000:1
      • Internet:
      • 10Gb Virgin Media Cable

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    I'll have to start the argument for the PROS side of this

    I don't see why people have a problem with it.... I would much prefer websites I visit to advertise useful things to me than junk that I'm not the slightest bit interested in.

    From what I've heard about how it works it sounds genius!!! Say you were browsing the hexus forums looking at monitor reviews... then when you go to another site, lets use hotmail as an example, instead of seeing an advert for "£25 FREE BET for all new customers with william hill" (that I see on the top of the page now), I would instead see an advert for a monitor!

    What I've heard about it is this:

    The data gathered is very basic and looks for keywords and is not read from any secure pages or any user input, e.g. from form fields. Data is never stored on disk and is immediately deleted from memory as soon as a product category match has been made.

    I think it sounds very similar to google adwords or the VIBRANT advertising word links that hexus use in their news articles (the green underlined words).

  7. #7
    SiM
    SiM is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    7,787
    Thanks
    300
    Thanked
    633 times in 422 posts
    • SiM's system
      • Motherboard:
      • P5K Premium
      • CPU:
      • Q6600
      • Memory:
      • 8GB PC2-6400 OCZ ReaperX + Platinum
      • Storage:
      • 3 x 320gb HD322HJ single platter in Raid 0
      • Graphics card(s):
      • PNY GTX285
      • PSU:
      • Corsair TX650W
      • Case:
      • Antec 1200
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2407-HC

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    I wouldn't mind phorm too much either. If it reduces internet prices to half and as long as no personal data is at risk then whats the problem? Just use adblock

  8. #8
    WEEEEEEEEEEEEE! MadduckUK's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lytham St. Annes
    Posts
    17,297
    Thanks
    653
    Thanked
    1,580 times in 1,006 posts
    • MadduckUK's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450M Mortar
      • CPU:
      • AMD Ryzen 5 3600
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200 DDR4
      • Storage:
      • 1x480GB SSD, 1x 2TB Hybrid, 1x 3TB Rust Spinner
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Radeon 5700XT
      • PSU:
      • Corsair TX750w
      • Case:
      • Phanteks Enthoo Evolv mATX
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung SJ55W, DELL S2409W
      • Internet:
      • Plusnet 80

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    Quote Originally Posted by Andaho View Post
    I'll have to start the argument for the PROS side of this
    thats appropriate, you WHORE
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians
    Do not be drunk with wine, which will ruin you, but be filled with the Spirit
    Vodka

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    247
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked
    8 times in 8 posts
    • Barkotron's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X99-A
      • CPU:
      • i7 5820K
      • Memory:
      • 32GB Crucial Ballistix Sport
      • Storage:
      • 128GB Samsung 850 Pro (OS), 512GB Samsung 840 Evo (Games), various other SSD/HDD (storage, work)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Inno3d GeForce GTX 980
      • PSU:
      • Hiper Something Something 800W-ish
      • Case:
      • Define XL
      • Operating System:
      • Win 8.1 x64 (fun!), Win2012 R2 (work)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Hazro HR27WD
      • Internet:
      • Virgin 120Mb

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    Quote Originally Posted by Andaho View Post
    What I've heard about it is this:

    The data gathered is very basic and looks for keywords and is not read from any secure pages or any user input, e.g. from form fields. Data is never stored on disk and is immediately deleted from memory as soon as a product category match has been made.
    The thing is, we only have Phorm's word for it that they won't look at form fields: their system does read the entire page sent back to you (unless you're connected via https), and then takes out the personal data etc. It's like someone opening all your letters to pick out the kinds of things which interest you and promising "I'll forget the personal bits, honest" purely so you get junk mail which gives you adverts for stuff you probably bought 2 weeks ago. You've just got to trust that they really will forget what they say they will.

    Personally, I've yet to see any reason at all to trust this company: it's an "ex" spyware company (who produced what F-Secure termed "one of the most widespread, malicious rootkits of 2005") who decided (under threat of litigation) to stop using drive-by installs which the user could remove, and go straight to the ISP. To my mind, it's the same spyware crap, but now it's impossible to remove.

    We've yet to see anything trustworthy out of them, and the only technically-qualified people who have looked in detail at their system have declared that they believe it is illegal (see Richard Clayton's report as linked by Chrestomanci above).

    It's a gross breach of trust by the ISPs, and I will be moving as soon as Virgin implement this, if they do.

    @SiM:
    I can understand that, but while it would be nice to think that the ISPs would offer people money off by implementing this, there is absolutely no sign that this is what's going to happen. It's a desperate attempt to shore up their own unsustainable business model (any non-cable users actually getting the 8Mb as advertised?) by exploiting their users.

    Remember, that browsing data is yours, it's worth money and they're giving you some worthless "anti-phishing" system (free with every modern browser - bargain!) and an at best arguably useless "targeted advertising" system. I can't speak for everyone obviously, but personally I don't want to get holiday adverts when I'm looking at a tech site - I want either adverts linked to what I'm looking at at the time, or no adverts.

    The best part is that they want it opt-out by default: unless you tell them you don't want this crap, they'll assume you do - and then even if you do opt-out, they STILL profile your data, they just don't give you the "benefits". At least Carphone Warehouse have changed their minds on this one and appear to be going for a real opt-in system where those who don't opt-in don't have their browsing redirected via the datarape servers.

    There are so many things wrong with this system (triple redirects - lovely overhead, please make my browsing even slower! cookie forging! copyright infringement! illegal intercept! the list goes on...), probably the best place to go read about it is The Register, which has been keeping on top of the story since it broke - their page about it is here: The Phorm files | The Register
    Last edited by Barkotron; 13-05-2008 at 11:30 AM. Reason: clarity

  10. #10
    Vampire
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,705
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked
    11 times in 11 posts

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    Here's another company which does something related to what Phorm does - read about how much info they can get together ...

    How ComScore can track your mouse clicks | The Register

    **** Phorm ... I wouldnt want to see it anywhere in any phorm whatsoever.
    All Hail the AACS : 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    2002
    Posts
    221
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked
    13 times in 9 posts

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    data protection act.

    we dont give them permission, theyre doing it illegally. end of line.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    247
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked
    8 times in 8 posts
    • Barkotron's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X99-A
      • CPU:
      • i7 5820K
      • Memory:
      • 32GB Crucial Ballistix Sport
      • Storage:
      • 128GB Samsung 850 Pro (OS), 512GB Samsung 840 Evo (Games), various other SSD/HDD (storage, work)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Inno3d GeForce GTX 980
      • PSU:
      • Hiper Something Something 800W-ish
      • Case:
      • Define XL
      • Operating System:
      • Win 8.1 x64 (fun!), Win2012 R2 (work)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Hazro HR27WD
      • Internet:
      • Virgin 120Mb

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs


  13. #13
    Custom User Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Wirral UK
    Posts
    1,168
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked
    14 times in 14 posts
    • cougarslam's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Maximus Formula SE (ROG)
      • CPU:
      • Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3ghz
      • Memory:
      • 4gb Corsair DDR2
      • Storage:
      • 1TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • BFG Nvidia 8800GT OC 512MB
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX520
      • Case:
      • Zorro
      • Operating System:
      • Vista Business 32
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x 17" crt
      • Internet:
      • adsl max (entanet)

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    what effect does it have on latency?

    ultimate form of spyware imo should be banned or opt in.

  14. #14
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    Quote Originally Posted by Andaho View Post
    I'll have to start the argument for the PROS side of this

    I don't see why people have a problem with it.... I would much prefer websites I visit to advertise useful things to me than junk that I'm not the slightest bit interested in.
    Then, when it or anything like it become operational (and in my opinion, it WILL, sooner or later, in one form or another, even if it isn't this company behind it) then you should opt in.

    Meantime, those of us that don't want it (and it seems to be most people) shouldn't be opted in by default by our ISPs, as they currently want and seem to intend to do. And unless you opt in, it should mean that companies like Phorm get no access to my data whatsoever, not just that they get it, profile it and then don't set their tracking cookies.

    Personally, I don't want online adverts from anybody, about anything, ever, unless I explicitly go looking for it, and I certainly don't want some company watching my browsing habits to determine what adverts to serve me. And, on the same line, I don't want any junkmail through my door either, and I don't want people ringing/texting me for direct marketing purposes, on either my home phone or mobile, for any reason whatever, regardless of who they are or what they're flogging. I just don't want it. Period.

    I'm paying my ISP to provide a service, not to provide my browsing data to some bunch of 'bleeps' so people I don't know can try to flog me stuff.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Andaho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    241
    Thanked
    8 times in 8 posts
    • Andaho's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS iX2 GTXS
      • CPU:
      • XC18650 4.2GHz 10664FSB 16 Core
      • Memory:
      • 64GB (2x32GB sticks) PC21320 Corsair Domititan Magnetic RAM 0 latency
      • Storage:
      • 16TB Western Digital SATAV 28800RPM Ultra Edition 1GB Cache
      • Graphics card(s):
      • XFX AMD 9985GTS LP 25Watt
      • PSU:
      • 150W Corsair
      • Case:
      • Lian-Li Aluminium ABX-951
      • Monitor(s):
      • SG-942IPS 42" 3840x2160 0.01ms 5,000,000,000:1
      • Internet:
      • 10Gb Virgin Media Cable

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Personally, I don't want online adverts from anybody, about anything, ever, unless I explicitly go looking for it...
    I don't want adverts on TV, in magazines, papers or giant bill boards along side main roads either... but advertising is a huge business... advertisers are finding it hard to reach their target audience with people watching less TV and using the internet more. - I think phorm is a breakthrough that is bound to happen sooner or later.

    It's not going to give us more junk, it's going to replace the crap junk with targeted junk! - that can be ignored just as easially.

    If it is found to be illegal, then it will be seen as that in a court and obviously won't be implimented in the UK... As to someone mentioning the data protection act. "we dont give them permission, theyre doing it illegally. end of line."... I don't give anyone permission to film me on CCTV as I walk down the highstreet either, yet it's not illegal?

    This is just another case of corporate powers changing the way we will see things. It's life. It happens all the time. Live with it Or go and live in isolation on an island

  16. #16
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: Headlines - Survey says: 57% of people would leave Phorm-adopting ISPs

    Quote Originally Posted by Andaho View Post
    I don't want adverts on TV, in magazines, papers or giant bill boards along side main roads either... but advertising is a huge business... advertisers are finding it hard to reach their target audience with people watching less TV and using the internet more. - I think phorm is a breakthrough that is bound to happen sooner or later.
    But it's going to be junk based on some bunch of people I don't know and didn't approve of analysing MY activity. Not acceptable.

    And it's a small wonder advertisers are finding it hard to reach people - they're bombarding us with crap at ever-increasing levels. A lot of people have reached, and exceeded, their advertising overload point. For a start, on commercial TV channels, a third of time is spent sending adverts. Which is why I rarely watch commercial channels live - I record and edit out the ads. If they weren't so over-the-top about it, I wouldn't bother. But I am NOT going to spend three hours in an evening watching TV, only to spend one hour of it watching flipping adverts.

    So .... I don't watch adverts on TV, don't buy newspapers and rarely buy magazines .... and ignore ads if I do. But an ad in a magazine isn't based on an analysis of my browsing habits, is it? This is not just about phorm facilitating adverts. It's about them invading my privacy to do it.

    If you don't mind that, fair enough.

    If people are prepared to sign up for it and, perhaps, get paid for it (as is effectively the case with store reward cards), then fair enough. That's why I won't use store reward cards and, most of the time, pay cash in supermarkets. Let the buggers track and anaylse that.

    In both the above cases, it's the user's choice. But with Phorm, it's about the company I am paying to provide me with an ISP service doing it without my permission. If my ISP goes ahead with this and I find out, they've lost my business. And if it ends up as not possible to get ISP service without this intrusion, I will go offline. I am not exaggerating there. I lived most of my life without the internet, and if necessary, will do so again. I'd miss it, but it's hardly the end of the world. But I will not accept the likes of Phorm.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •