News - Danamics LM10 CPU cooler hits retail, costs almost as much as a Core i7 CPU

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Danamics' much-vaunted liquid metal-based CPU cooler has arrived in stores, but at over £200, who's going to buy one?

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Read more.

Er.. they're still constrained by the laws of thermodynamics like the rest of us. So what if you have the most efficent way of getting heat into your fins? The fin/air gradient is still going to be the limiting factor - more so when it doesn't even come with a fan.

I'm thinking of a 2 word phrase... one of these words is 'off'...

seriously... it would probably be cheaper to water cool your cpu tha buy this... and the water cooling is more than likely going to be better...

plus given the choice between one of those and the i7... i'd take the i7...

with that price did they manage to come up with some other numbers also? i.e figures. I'm interested to see.

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Originally Posted by Hexus

Danamics tells us "exceeds most watercoolers in a single device".

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Why, is it going to gool the northbridge & GPU as well? Still better off getting a decent watercooling setup, or go vapour phase chiller.

completely pointless

Good to see my watercooling setup was a worthy investment :mrgreen:

*Phew*

So are Hexus getting one to test? If you do what are you going to test it against in terms of water cooling?

I don't think it's targeted as a replacement for water cooling, even if it's marketed as such. I think it's more of an alternative for those who want very good cooling, yet don't/can't have the kerfuffle of a water-cooling setup.

It's still going to sell in trickles at best, regardless of who it is or isn't aimed at.

:lol: at that price tag. I know its a new technology as everything but thats mad! I really hope it can justify the price tag when it comes to testing but thats one seriously tall order!

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Originally Posted by kalniel

Er.. they're still constrained by the laws of thermodynamics like the rest of us. So what if you have the most efficent way of getting heat into your fins? The fin/air gradient is still going to be the limiting factor - more so when it doesn't even come with a fan.

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Exactly. You'd be better off getting a regular gigantic heatsink, and let the effects of thermodynamics move air across the larger surface area. And it'll still be £150 or so cheaper.

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Originally Posted by Danamics

exceeds most watercoolers in a single device

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I should hope so at that price :O_o1:

Except that it's still marketing fud because they haven't said what they consider "most watercoolers" to be, and there is a possibility they mean a setup that conveniently has a radiator with a smaller surface area...

Does it come with magic beans?

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Originally Posted by chuckskull

Does it come with magic beans?

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Yes, you eat some before entering the store and end up buying a half-dozen of these.

But as someone else mentioned, will this magnetic pump affect your hard drive array?
I cant imagine what would happen if it were to somehow break open. Mercury (or whatever it is) all over your everything.

P.S. If if is some form of mercury, couldn't it freeze at low temperatures meaning that one part could be frozen and blocking the flow while the processor is overheating?

its not mercury as such i dont think, its some kind of metallic compound which may include mercury.

It will not freeze as long as the is a heat source applied (ie the CPU) it will be generating enough heat to keep it all liquid and if its not then the solid metal in the pipes will still conduct sufficient heat to the fins to keep the CPU cool until the metal liquefies again. But seriously when was the last time your room was less than 0°C? and even at those temps Mercury wouldn't freeze (it freezes/melts at ~-39°C) Now since we don't know what the liquid metal is we can't say for sure what its properties are but I would be very surprised if it would ever freeze under normal operating conditions.

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Originally Posted by Webby

But seriously when was the last time your room was less than 0°C?

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January 11th 2007

We'll see what temps it gets to this year...

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Originally Posted by CK159

But as someone else mentioned, will this magnetic pump affect your hard drive array?

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No.

If the magnetic pump is powerful enough to affect hard drive data at that kind of range, you'd better not take it home from the shop in a car. Ever seen the end of Spiderman 2?

-Webby

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But seriously when was the last time your room was less than 0°C?

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My room has never been that cold. However, my air cooled system goes well below 0°C.
http://i30.tinypic.com/oa6sno.png
That's with a Zalman 9500 AM2 with ArcticSilver Ceramique. Yes. Just air cooling only.
I just picked up the CoreContact-Freezer from sunbeamtech using the tuniq tx-2 compound that came with it. Best $35 i've spent. fantastic cooling. I expect to get even lower temps with the Sunbeam HS.

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/7...plant065qm.jpg

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

However, my air cooled system goes well below 0°C.
http://i30.tinypic.com/oa6sno.png
That's with a Zalman 9500 AM2 with ArcticSilver Ceramique. Yes. Just air cooling only.
I just picked up the CoreContact-Freezer from sunbeamtech using the tuniq tx-2 compound that came with it. Best $35 i've spent. fantastic cooling. I expect to get even lower temps with the Sunbeam HS.

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I'm afraid your sensor reading programme is having a mid-life crisis.

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

-Webby

My room has never been that cold. However, my air cooled system goes well below 0°C.
http://i30.tinypic.com/oa6sno.png
That's with a Zalman 9500 AM2 with ArcticSilver Ceramique. Yes. Just air cooling only.
I just picked up the CoreContact-Freezer from sunbeamtech using the tuniq tx-2 compound that came with it. Best $35 i've spent. fantastic cooling. I expect to get even lower temps with the Sunbeam HS.

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Unless your room is oh I don't know about -25°C the is no way that your CPU will be running at those temps. Or of course the is always the other possibility that is your living in a secret pocket dimension where the laws of thermodynamics do not apply.

I think its a fairly safe bet that at least one of the following applies to you the program that is recording your temps is fubar, your motherboard is fubar or the sensors (yes all of them) are fubar or the other option you are operating your PC in a freezer.

I'm still laughing at Clunk's picture.

ROFL clunk what a picture!

Those temps are impossible mate, does the fact that one core is above 0 and the other is under not give the game away?

I'm surprised you guys haven't seen that pic before... seen it at least 3 or 4 times before

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Originally Posted by SiM

I'm surprised you guys haven't seen that pic before... seen it at least 3 or 4 times before

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It's not quite the picture itself I'm laughing at, it's more to do with Clunk's creative use of it.

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Unless your room is oh I don't know about -25°C the is no way that your CPU will be running at those temps. Or of course the is always the other possibility that is your living in a secret pocket dimension where the laws of thermodynamics do not apply.

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- Think outside the box. There are other sources of "intake" air besides the room the pc resides in. I hedge to bet you have yet to harness mother nature to cool your equipment. The laws of thermal dynamics are still being adhered to in my situation. Not even bent a little bit.

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I think its a fairly safe bet that at least one of the following applies to you the program that is recording your temps is fubar, your motherboard is fubar or the sensors (yes all of them) are fubar or the other option you are operating your PC in a freezer.

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- I accept your bet. And I win.

A: The program used to monitor my system is Everest Ultimate Edition, has always monitored my system temps accurately. Try it out yourself. http://www.lavalys.com/beta/everestu...lgsdty5knm.zip I have used Everest over 4 different skt 939 dual core cpu's. Always accurate using my cooling method, or any other cooling methods.

B: My motherboard is rock solid. DFI ftw.

C: All sensors work perfectly fine.

D: pc is in my room. not a freezer.

Now, I think it is time you fully understand that your pc CAN indeed be colder than the room, and on air cooling alone. And this is simple stuff too, so I won't hurt your brains with the full thermal dynamics explanation of how it cools and how condensation is not a factor.

- Intake air from the outside. See, simple stuff. And here is the kicker... You get to use any available weather station in your area, or the one outside your window, compare these temperatures to the temperatures being monitored by the software. :eek: When it is 10C outside, and your cpu socket sensor read 11C, and your idle core (in this case core #2) reads 10c, then that pretty much assures that all things are monitoring properly.. MB, software, CPU diodes...

here's how it looks.
http://i36.tinypic.com/ae5sty.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/99ntys.jpg

Current setup has an exhaust system duct as well. As I no longer live where that photo was taken, I simply made a custom board for the window for the intake and exhaust ducts to fit to.

See. That wasn't so hard now, was it? I hope this satisfies your bewilderment and overwhelming urge to discount someone else because you were not open minded enough to think of this possibility.
Or is there some other portion of thermal dynamics you are still in the negative about? Condensation? maybe? It usually follows hand and hand with the "There is no way... ur on crack.... yatta yatta...." clowns I deal with.

So its colder than -12C outside?

IMO, that idea is pretty silly... make a hole in you wall for your pc :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Biscuit

Those temps are impossible mate, does the fact that one core is above 0 and the other is under not give the game away?

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On AMD dual-core's (non-first gen am2) It is very very common that the cores differ by several degrees C. This is even more apparent when an advanced heatpipe or TEC or watercooling system is used. On a day to day basis when nature is not being used, the difference between cores is between 10-15c.
If you doubt it at all, go to the lavalys forums and ask the program developer yourself about the differences between the cores. http://lavalys.com/forum/

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Originally Posted by SiM

So its colder than -12C outside?

IMO, that idea is pretty silly... make a hole in you wall for your pc

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At the time of the screen shot, it was actually -12.6c

LOL @ hole in the wall. When I moved into that apartment, i was like... "oooooh yeah..... we cooling s*** nows" That hole was maid by the landlord/owner after converting a two story house into a 2 seperate apartment. No central heat or air, so they went industrial. Both the upstairs apt and the apt I was in got heater/AC/de-humifiers from Pelonis http://www.pelonis.com/port_ac.htm. Due to fire code, the window exhaust option was not an option, so they cut a hole in the wall.

So by think outside the box you mean think outside the house...

I dont really think you have proved a great deal here to be quite honest. You're argument began with a vague statement and has ended in a solution which entirely unpractical for 99% of people.

Could you not have just said how you did it in the first place or do you get kicks out of making clearly subject-educated people look like 'fools'?(i put this in quotation marks deliberately as i dont feel foolish in the slightest).

Id rather spend £200 on a cooler than have a fat hole in my wall attached to the PC... infact my PC helps keep my room warm rather than your solution which is a slight loss to insulation.

I take it this is in the winter, but in the summer your back in the same boat as all the other people cooling on air.

Oh and why condensation may not be an issue due to the air not being at its dew point, high humidity is as much of a problem and damaging to computer components. When its wet outside do you think you are pulling in dry air?

I'm with Biscuit on this you obviously came here with the intention trying to make people look foolish, you are not thinking outside the box plenty of people have connected up their PC's to air con and to vents during winter.

If you wanted to show off your temps then you could have started a new thread and posted all about it perhaps posing the question "look at my temps guess how i do it?" rather than posting exceedingly limited information in fact implying that the temperatures are due to the cooler you are using rather than the fact your using -12ºC air for the cooling. You state that buying that cooler was the best $35 you ever spent well hate to break it to you but you could have saved that money with air temps that low stock cooling would have been more than adequate.

I also reckon I win the bet, your PC is obviously in a freezer, a natural one by all means but a freezer all the same! :p

Where oh where to begin. I'll do this in order of response.

@ Bisquit:

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I dont really think you have proved a great deal here to be quite honest. You're argument began with a vague statement and has ended in a solution which entirely unpractical for 99% of people

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First, I never had an "argument". I did, however, have an opening "comment" that was a response to Webby's question regarding 0c temps, following up on Moogle's lead. The argument you speak of was commenced by Webby's full on attempt's to discredit what I stated, even going so far as to make a statement about an imaginary pocket universe to mock me even more. Compounding the situation even further, Webby goes on to insist nothing is as claimed and makes claims of all sorts of things are wrong, and is assured it is a safe bet there is. As for the "and has ended in a solution..." Solution to what? What is this solution?

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Id rather spend £200 on a cooler than have a fat hole in my wall attached to the PC

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Go right ahead, spend the $$. Like I stated before (which you probably did not bother to retain), that hole in the wall, and the duct attached to it, were already there when I moved into the place. And, as I also stated before, where I live now, there is no hole in the wall, just a nice slat in the window from using the pelonis parts I ordered for the duct and mounts.

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Could you not have just said how you did it in the first place or do you get kicks out of making clearly subject-educated people look like 'fools'?(i put this in quotation marks deliberately as i dont feel foolish in the slightest)

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In the first place, I was merely (once again) just making a comment about 0c temps., and gave a piece of proof. I did not ask anyone to retort with "impossible"'s. You, and Webby and aidanjt chose to dis-believe and to take your dis-believe so far as to start the dis-crediting statements. I followed up by explaining the how's and why's and even supplied visual aide. So I already fulfilled your belated request of "how you did it", in my second post of the thread. No one made it a rule that I explain "how I did it" for a comment regarding the 0c for a room temp.
So, really, I think the question should actually be reversed unto yourself. Do you get kicks out of making new members look like 'fools' by trying everything you can to discredit them? I think you have spent waaaaaaay to much time on the internet in forums and blogs, or w/e your life is plagued with.

I am done with you.


Next up: Webby

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I take it this is in the winter, but in the summer your back in the same boat as all the other people cooling on air.

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Winter/summer/spring/fall.. Doesn't matter what time of year, I am always in the same boat all air coolers. Cooling with air. I am also in the same boat as everyone that is water-cooling. And we all are never going below ambient(intake). The bonus of this during the summer, I only have to flip one fan, then the entire system exhausts to the outside, which helps out a lot on keeping the cooling bill during the summer nice and low, because the pc is not heating up the room. Which, in reality, makes my "boat" just a lil better than anyone else on air.. and water..

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If you wanted to show off your temps then you could have started a new thread and posted all about it perhaps posing the question

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Well, if I had wanted to do that, then I would have. Once again, I merely made a comment about 0c rooms/temps and supplied a pic supporting it. Both you and biscuit inflated the situation to the saturation point. Making allegations that were unfounded, and more.

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You state that buying that cooler was the best $35 you ever spent well hate to break it to you but you could have saved that money with air temps that low stock cooling would have been more than adequate.

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Well, I hate to break this to you. I lost $0 in purchasing the heatsink. Even got a rebate on the shipping due to lengthy shipping time. I spend approx. $60 for the Zalman. Final cost on the sunbeam is $25 after rebate. Sold the zalman for $35. Gained $10, and the sunbeam keeps the cpu at 100% 12C cooler than the zalman. And an amd skt-939 stock cooler can not even compare to the performance of heatpipes, no matter how cold the air you pipe in from the oustide.

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I also reckon I win the bet, your PC is obviously in a freezer, a natural one by all means but a freezer all the same!

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Negative :mrgreen: My pc sits right next to me on my computer desk. Always has, always will. It just breathes in an unconventional way.

someone in marketing is going to get there p45 for xmas releasing that joke.

face it if you like your pc that much you can use a none conductive water cooling setup for less than that. and cool the GPU in the mix !

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

When it is 10C outside, and your cpu socket sensor read 11C, and your idle core (in this case core #2) reads 10c, then that pretty much assures that all things are monitoring properly.. MB, software, CPU diodes...

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False, this would violate the Zeroth law and thermal resistance. Your sensors would still skewed, albeit, by a trivial margin.

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

Bisquit:

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I Admire your maturity, great way to start a post :rockon2:

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

First, I never had an "argument". I did, however, have an opening "comment" that was a response to Webby's question regarding 0c temps, following up on Moogle's lead.

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Im glad you put your "comment" in quotation marks as it disagree's with Webbys statement/rhetorical question therefore it is an argument...

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

As for the "and has ended in a solution..." Solution to what? What is this solution?

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The solution to receiving minus 0 temps without your room being that cold...? You made a statement which appears to ludicrous to the untrained eye + then presented us with your solution. (Also relating to the first point) Maybes i picked the wrong word(s) but i dont really see how language skills have anything to do with this discussion so you can drop the technicalities.

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

Go right ahead, spend the $$. Like I stated before (which you probably did not bother to retain), that hole in the wall, and the duct attached to it, were already there when I moved into the place. And, as I also stated before, where I live now, there is no hole in the wall, just a nice slat in the window from using the pelonis parts I ordered for the duct and mounts.

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I did read what you said but it doesnt make your comment any more phesable for the 99% of other people around the world who dont have to have holes in their walls and dont fancy mauling the side of their house or their window.

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

In the first place, I was merely (once again) just making a comment about 0c temps., and gave a piece of proof. I did not ask anyone to retort with "impossible"'s. You, and Webby and aidanjt chose to dis-believe and to take your dis-believe so far as to start the dis-crediting statements. I followed up by explaining the how's and why's and even supplied visual aide. So I already fulfilled your belated request of "how you did it", in my second post of the thread. No one made it a rule that I explain "how I did it" for a comment regarding the 0c for a room temp.

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What you did is start with a statement than was initially completely unbacked with evidence, which i personally think had the clear expectation for us to reply with debunking statements as we did. I cant see any reason for you not to include the information first time round other than this or pure laziness however your discussion since then has been so articulate im guessing we can safely rule out the lazy part.

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

So, really, I think the question should actually be reversed unto yourself. Do you get kicks out of making new members look like 'fools' by trying everything you can to discredit them? I think you have spent waaaaaaay to much time on the internet in forums and blogs, or w/e your life is plagued with.

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Not at all i welcome new comers! However new comers often tend to make their introduction in a much less arrogant way. In fact, if you had presented your ideas/solutions/inventions (or whatever the hell words im allowed to use without being subject to grammar scrutinization) in more sensible way i would be quite intrigued as to how it works and probably offered you congratulations but seeing as this is not the case i have no interest in discussing it with you any further.
Yes i do spend a lot of time on forums and such, which is why you can drop the know-it-all smart arse act because iv seen it all before and its never received in a particularly warm way.

- I am done with you. :angst:

Sorry but it is a freezer, freezers work on a convection current and your pc is just like that. How does it work then? If you have one connection to outside then where do you get the intake from? is the pipe the intake? if so where does the hot air go? in the room?. Im guessing your in america since you keep mentioning dollars in price, but since it was only -12.6C then im still confused how you got a similar temp from a hot cpu(amd's are not cool, seriously) so surely there would be atleast a good few degrees difference.

Im sorry but i dont see how your going to get them temps from just having a pipe outside, its not a traditional cooling and so its not better than a "CPU" cooler or water cooling/phase cooling because its not cooling the cpu directly.

Take a photo of the pc now and i think we could believe you but since you said thats a few years old pic it cant be taken with much legitimacy.

Hicks, (not sure why i'm defending/explaining for him but anyway...) the case is as I understand it hooked up to 2 vents an intake and outlet connected to a window vent it uses fans to pull cold air in from outside and then exhausts the warmed air back outside again.

FrozenFx-60, my freezer argument is based on the fact that the inside of the case is connected directly to the outside, effectively the inside of the case is outside (in the freezer) with the walls of the case protecting you from the elements.

Anyway this is the end of the whole discussion I will not reply on the matter again in this thread which is for discussing the LM10 and this whole cold air thing has taken us well off track. Feel free to start another thread in the appropriate section of the forums if you wish to discuss this any further.

Edit: Oh one last point (can't resist)

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

Well, I hate to break this to you. I lost $0 in purchasing the heatsink. Even got a rebate on the shipping due to lengthy shipping time. I spend approx. $60 for the Zalman. Final cost on the sunbeam is $25 after rebate. Sold the zalman for $35. Gained $10, and the sunbeam keeps the cpu at 100% 12C cooler than the zalman. And an amd skt-939 stock cooler can not even compare to the performance of heatpipes, no matter how cold the air you pipe in from the oustide.

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Do you know how heatpipes work? I will explain, in the most basic form a heatpipe uses a volatile liquid when this gets hot it evaporates and the vapour travels through the pipe where it is cooled and condenses the liquid then travels back to the start to be re-boiled. Now for the flaw in your heatpipes better than stock argument, if the liquid in the heatpipes is kept cooler than its boiling point then the heat transfer from the base to the fins only occurs through the heat travelling up the heatpipe walls before being dissipated by the fins. The heatpipes are effectively a bottleneck under these conditions compared to a solid piece of metal which would be able to transfer significantly higher heat loads. And since the heatpipes in CPU coolers are designed to run at normal operating conditions for CPU's (read temps grater than 0°C) the liquid inside is chosen to have its boiling point higher than this (most likely ~35-40°C) so your heatpipes are doing nothing and the stock cooler would probably be doing the job as well.

Final point you spend $85 on coolers and got $35 back by selling one of them that is still a total cost to you of $50... so how did you make $10.

Thanks for the explanation their webby, does make sense but that still proves the point of it being a freezer so hes just lost the argument. Am i right in thinking the operating temps of most hardware is like 0+ C?

Webby, I bought 4 zalman's for a total of $60. that is $15 a piece. Sold three right away for $20 each. That puts me at +/- $0. bought sunbeam for $35. $10 rebate, now at -$25, sold the last zalman for $35. That puts me at +$10.

Also, heat-pipes are fully functional at a range of -40c to +150c, so even at these low temps, heatpipes work far better than a solid piece of aluminum from the stock coolers.

I said I wasn't going to reply but I will.

Your story keeps changing lets take it from the start,

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

That's with a Zalman 9500 AM2 with ArcticSilver Ceramique. Yes. Just air cooling only.
I just picked up the CoreContact-Freezer from sunbeamtech using the tuniq tx-2 compound that came with it. Best $35 i've spent. fantastic cooling. I expect to get even lower temps with the Sunbeam HS.

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So the new cooler cost you $35.

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

Well, I hate to break this to you. I lost $0 in purchasing the heatsink. Even got a rebate on the shipping due to lengthy shipping time. I spend approx. $60 for the Zalman. Final cost on the sunbeam is $25 after rebate. Sold the zalman for $35. Gained $10, and the sunbeam keeps the cpu at 100% 12C cooler than the zalman. And an amd skt-939 stock cooler can not even compare to the performance of heatpipes, no matter how cold the air you pipe in from the oustide.

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Now the cooler cost you $25, and you state that you bought a zalman cooler for $60 and sold it for $35.

After I question your maths we get to,

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

Webby, I bought 4 zalman's for a total of $60. that is $15 a piece. Sold three right away for $20 each. That puts me at +/- $0. bought sunbeam for $35. $10 rebate, now at -$25, sold the last zalman for $35. That puts me at +$10.

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You bought 4 Zalmans for $60 sold 3 of them for $20 each.

First the Zalman cost you $60 and you sold it for $35 now you bought 4 for $60 and sold 3 of them for $20 each. You also said that you spent $35 on the Sunbeam cooler and then it was $25 sorry if I seem a bit sceptical but whenever somebody points out an error in your arguemnts you seem to add another think to help you out...

Finally back to heatpipes,

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Originally Posted by FrozenFX-60

Also, heat-pipes are fully functional at a range of -40c to +150c, so even at these low temps, heatpipes work far better than a solid piece of aluminum from the stock coolers.

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A heatpipe based cooler designed to operate at room temperatures will have heatpipes designed for the cooling liquids to evaporate at temperatures above room temperature if they evaporated at temperatures below that they would not be effective as they would not condense and therefore would not transfer any heat.

If you wish to dispute this please find some concise scientific proof you won't be able to so I wouldn't bother looking to hard.

Right that's it no more on this topic from me.

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Originally Posted by CK159

Yes, you eat some before entering the store and end up buying a half-dozen of these.

But as someone else mentioned, will this magnetic pump affect your hard drive array?
I cant imagine what would happen if it were to somehow break open. Mercury (or whatever it is) all over your everything.

P.S. If if is some form of mercury, couldn't it freeze at low temperatures meaning that one part could be frozen and blocking the flow while the processor is overheating?

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You don't see thermometers freezing, do you? Mercury has a freezing point of -37C. When was the last time anything in your room was THAT cold?

didnt realise this thread has 3 pages haha, sorry for quoting that lol.

No go right ahead and quote away good to get the thread back on track ;)

I'm still waiting for a review for it to come out apparently Nordic Hardware have the exclusive review (I guess that means they wil be first to release their results) but nothing up when I last checked.

Anyhooo, ignoring the squabbling here it seems NordicHardware has got one and done a review!

Make your own minds up, I think watercooling is still safe for now :)

*Still Reading it*

nice one moogle

not impressed tbh, in no way does it warrent such a price tag. Its a real shame IMO because i was really hoping to see something really groundbraking and special.

Edit - sorry for the double post

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Originally Posted by Biscuit

nice one moogle

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No problems, I've been waiting for some results for a long time too.

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Originally Posted by Biscuit

Its a real shame IMO because i was really hoping to see something really groundbraking and special.

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Steady on! I want it to take a few years so my watercooling doesn't look like a wasted investment :laugh:

The way you connect the wires up seems a bit fiddly (ironic eh coming from a wc'ing person :P), it's just not designed for those high wattage, high overclocks that people would like. Just for even more silent cooling. Is anyone really willing to pay that much just for silence? I'm not :D

So they've managed to match heatpipes for 5 times the price.

Given the properties of their chosen coolant it's being limited by the rate at which it heats up, so the only way they're going to really be able to make this better is to increase the rate at which the coolant is pumped around the loop.

The issue is not how effective the medium (in this case liquid metal) is at transferring heat away from the CPU it is how effective the cooler is at dissipating that energy to the surrounding air and that is limited by the fins, water cooling is effective because a) water can move a lot of heat without increasing in temperature dramatically and b) we can have huge radiators to remove that heat into the air. If you attempted to watercool with a radiator which had the same cooling performance as a standard heatpipe cooler you would see similar temperatures, case in point see the Xigmatek all in one watercooled tower thing. This is why serious watercoolers are likely to have at least a triple 120mm fan rad (assuming they are cooling more than just a CPU, for a CPU only loop a decent duel 120mm rad will be sufficient).

The important thing to remember is that your heat transfer is limited by the slowest step you can move the heat from the CPU to the liquid metal as fast as you like but if the liquid metal can not give it up to the fins because they are not effectively cooled then you may as well have heatpipes instead.

All in all the LM10 was a nice innovative idea but it falls at the first hurdle it is not even as efficient as a good air cooler (the TRUE) and so will not touch custom built watercooling. To make it effective they will need to dramatically increase the surface area for cooling but the is no easy way to achieve that without turning it into something of the Scythe Oroochi standards which is really to heavy to have hanging off a motherboard.

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Originally Posted by Webby

The issue is not how effective the medium (in this case liquid metal) is at transferring heat away from the CPU it is how effective the cooler is at dissipating that energy to the surrounding air and that is limited by the fins, water cooling is effective because a) water can move a lot of heat without increasing in temperature dramatically and b) we can have huge radiators to remove that heat into the air. If you attempted to watercool with a radiator which had the same cooling performance as a standard heatpipe cooler you would see similar temperatures, case in point see the Xigmatek all in one watercooled tower thing. This is why serious watercoolers are likely to have at least a triple 120mm fan rad (assuming they are cooling more than just a CPU, for a CPU only loop a decent duel 120mm rad will be sufficient).

The important thing to remember is that your heat transfer is limited by the slowest step you can move the heat from the CPU to the liquid metal as fast as you like but if the liquid metal can not give it up to the fins because they are not effectively cooled then you may as well have heatpipes instead.

All in all the LM10 was a nice innovative idea but it falls at the first hurdle it is not even as efficient as a good air cooler (the TRUE) and so will not touch custom built watercooling. To make it effective they will need to dramatically increase the surface area for cooling but the is no easy way to achieve that without turning it into something of the Scythe Oroochi standards which is really to heavy to have hanging off a motherboard.

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If it's that expensive then why not just get watercooling... I feel sorry for the company for wasting all of their time and money... and I feel sorry for anyone who buys it...

The Nordic review mentioned earlier in this thread is damning.

However, a point it seems to make is that improvements can be made to this new technology - or new application of tech'.

Certainly, if a later release of this product can halve the price, whilst improving performance, (and I think that is highly likely,) this product will be well worth considering.

The fact that the Ultra 120 Extreme seems to beat it is enough to persuade me not to buy it - currently.

The problem is not on the new technology front its in the heat dissipation aspect of the cooler.

You can only dissipate heat as fast as the slowest process, Heatpipes are already efficient at moving heat quickly from one point to another and the limiting step is moving the heat from the fins to the air. The same is true for the liquid metal cooler the liquid metal bit is efficient but the fins are still the limiting step.

Water cooling works well as the water can transport the heat away efficiently and at the same time you can heve very efficiently designed radiators for dissipating the heat to the air. An average triple 120mm rad probably has 4 or 5 times the cooling surface area of an averavge air cooler and gets to use more fans for cooling as well.

The only way I can see for them to improve on the current unit would be to increase the efficiency of the fins and this will be difficult without dramatically increasing the size of the cooler, or they could up the fan power or maybe move to something like a watercooling radiator with a lot of thin tubes and fine fins you would still be limited by the size of the unit though to a single 120mm rad and as any water cooler will tell you for the best temps that make the outlay worth while you need at least a duel 120mm rad really.

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Originally Posted by Webby

Water cooling works well as ...

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Interesting comment - thank you. (Learn something every day...)