Opinions - Sapphire scuppering NVIDIA's new products with revised high-end pricing?

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The Sapphire-exclusive Radeon HD 4850 X2 has been slashed in price and is doing its best to turn the high-end market on its head.

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I wouldn't be trendously sure they're making a loss - the chips themselves are cheap enough, it's just the packaging and R&D that's pricey. But then again didn't AMD commision the dual-chip design from Sapphiretech in the first place? So that was maybe already done and paid for.

Great price indeed. I expect these to be flying off the shelves.

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Originally Posted by kalniel

I wouldn't be trendously sure they're making a loss - the chips themselves are cheap enough, it's just the packaging and R&D that's pricey. But then again didn't AMD commision the dual-chip design from Sapphiretech in the first place? So that was maybe already done and paid for.

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not really, sticking two 4850's on one card increases the cost compared to two disrete cards. I can't remember how many layers a single and a x2 board uses but you can guarentee the x2 uses a thicker pcb with more layers a lot more traces in a small space and more shielding of the signals being required, it increases the cost, increases the time the pcb spends in the plant making them, increases the time taken for each card to be made etc, etc, etc.

But as you say I still wouldn't remotely think these are making a loss. While Nvidia are certainly making losses on all the excess 280's being sold off stupidly cheap, and probably lots of their cards since the 280/260's, I'd hazard a guess the 4850/4870's were making a decent profit from the get go and still are and have a decent margin for reduction in costs.

This is just what AMD had in reserve price wise the whole time while waiting for nvidia's 55nm and their own x2 part. They could have done this 5 months ago when the nvidia 55nm stuff was due but basically had no need to at all.

In all honesty, theres very very VERY little either X2 can't handle, you'd have to be monumentally stupid to pay £400-450 for a 295gtx considering you wouldn't tell the difference in anything but deadspace to a £330 4870x2, maybe even the £250 4850x2. You'd have to be even more stupid to buy a 285gtx, hell the 295gtx is virtually the bargain of the century compared to it. Double the performance or near enough, for 30% more.

I would love to replace my 4850 for a 4850 x2. It might be a little overkill for 1680*1050 but it should mean I wont have to upgrade for a little while yet.

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Originally Posted by drunkenmaster

I can't remember how many layers a single and a x2 board uses but you can guarentee the x2 uses a thicker pcb with more layers a lot more traces in a small space and more shielding of the signals being required, it increases the cost, increases the time the pcb spends in the plant making them, increases the time taken for each card to be made etc, etc, etc.

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That's why I said the packaging costs are higher :p

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Originally Posted by drunkenmaster

But as you say I still wouldn't remotely think these are making a loss. While Nvidia are certainly making losses on all the excess 280's being sold off stupidly cheap, and probably lots of their cards since the 280/260's, I'd hazard a guess the 4850/4870's were making a decent profit from the get go and still are and have a decent margin for reduction in costs.

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So, why should nVidia be selling at a loss, while AMD are making a profit?

Any sources or info to back that up or was it just complete and utter guesswork?

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Originally Posted by shaithis

Any sources or info to back that up or was it just complete and utter guesswork?

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Die size of the 260/280 is 576mm^2 and the PCB has 14 layers...

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Originally Posted by shaithis

So, why should nVidia be selling at a loss, while AMD are making a profit?

Any sources or info to back that up or was it just complete and utter guesswork?

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Based on the size of the die and such like, nvidia's products are more expensive to make.

In order to get their 55nm xx5 parts out there, they will have to (and are) discount the older xx0 parts - in order to be competitive with ATI, margins would have already been thin and so further discounting to clear them out would LIKELY result in a loss.

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Originally Posted by kalniel

Die size of the 260/280 is 576mm^2 and the PCB has 14 layers...

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I think what you meant was "no, I have no sources or any info to back up my claims."

Guessing or your own personal opinion still do not count as "sources" to back up your claims.

what kind of sources were you after? copies of Nvidia's bank statements? :)

whether they're making a loss or not, the huge price cuts Nvidia had to make when the 48xx's were introduced would suggest to me that Nvidia are less happy about their profit margins than ATI/AMD. Having to make further cuts to get rid of back stock with the newer releases can't help.

But then what do I know, I haven't seen their bank statements...