News - Group including IBM and Oracle joins EC case against Microsoft

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Pressure grows on Microsoft as interoperability group offers support to EC in browser anti-trust case.

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Read more.

Seriously, WTF?. Why is it always Microsoft getting the blame on things like this? Have apple set them up as i never see them having problems like these, they dont offer IE with their macs do they? They provide safari built in so why are they not getting fined?. The EC is taking the piss and should stop it now.

How do developers of browsers make money? I really would appreciate it if someone told me this cause i dont see a way other than advertising.

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Originally Posted by Hicks12

Seriously, WTF?. Why is it always Microsoft getting the blame on things like this? Have apple set them up as i never see them having problems like these, they dont offer IE with their macs do they? They provide safari built in so why are they not getting fined?. The EC is taking the piss and should stop it now.

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I think you'll find that although Safarty (I really hate that browser!) is bundled with Mac OS it's not an integral part of the operating system (any Macista's confirm this?) so if you want Firefox instead then you can ditch S completely and put it in place instead.

On the other hand, IE is pretty much integral to Windows - you can't totally remove it without various things stop working. So even if you put in Firefox etc on Windows it's always going to be a 'poor relation' to IE, since the latter is squirrelled into the OS in various places - hence it's not a level playing field.

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Originally Posted by Hicks12

How do developers of browsers make money? I really would appreciate it if someone told me this cause i dont see a way other than advertising.

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I'm confused by this too - e.g. how do the Mozilla guys pay the bills? I know they get sponsorship, but surely this is not enough to keep them in bread, butter and beer.

I was expecting Oracle and IBM to support anti-Microsoft, after all they compete directly with MS. You probably won't see, for example, HP wade in since they don't really compete, so have nothing to gain.

Bob

Ok thanks for showing me how it actually works. I still dont see the reason to fine them, give microsoft the time to take it out in windows 7 or something and if they dont then fine them, better?.

This is just bullying. Ridiculous

I think OSX should have to do the same thing.
I also think linux distros should have more browsers in there repos.
during install of distros you should get a choice. I know you can easily remove firefox and install opera or w/e but thats not the point.
firefox doesnt suit everyone.

btw opera have made a browser for the iphone but arent allowed to release it because you arent allowed to create anything that does the same job as an application that ships with the device.
surely users should get a choice with all applications?

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Originally Posted by lodore

I think OSX should have to do the same thing.
I also think linux distros should have more browsers in there repos.
during install of distros you should get a choice. I know you can easily remove firefox and install opera or w/e but thats not the point.
firefox doesnt suit everyone.

btw opera have made a browser for the iphone but arent allowed to release it because you arent allowed to create anything that does the same job as an application that ships with the device.
surely users should get a choice with all applications?

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Lodore, do you use OSX? Can you confirm that Safari is essential to the functioning of the OS or can it be removed totally?

I personally can only believe that the part highlighted in bold is the point. When you navigate to the Windows update site with Firefox, this is what geets you:

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Thank you for your interest in obtaining updates from our site.

To use this site, you must be running Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 or later.

To upgrade to the latest version of the browser, go to the Internet Explorer Downloads website.

If you prefer to use a different web browser, you can obtain updates from the Microsoft Download Center or you can stay up to date with the latest critical and security updates by using Automatic Updates. To turn on Automatic Updates:

1. Click Start, click Control Panel, and then click Security.
2. Click Security Center, and then make sure Automatic updating is turned on.


To enhance the security and performance of your computer, make sure Windows automatic updating is not turned off.

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Not a lot of choice there, either you use IE or your not able to get your updates without jumping through hoops or doing the process in their other prescribed manner. I don't get what difference using something other than IE should really have if they coded the site properly.

The problem is that the EC are just way behind the times with their cases, but I would have expected it to have ramifications on OSX if they do find against MS.

Linux I would imagine that as much of the software is distributed under the GPL and you have the choice of many variations of linux each which sets out what they have and allow total changes theirs not much need for them to offer more initial choices as that is the point, it gets you going then allows you to choose whether you keep it or get something else. I'm sure if you were willing to port all the other browsers to linux and submit to the repos someone would use them subject to their owners licencing ;)

internet explorer can be removed in the later windows 7 builds.
you cant use it as a web browser once you do that but all applications that need the libaries that IE provides arent broken by it.
fyi windows update is a separate application in vista.

btw i havent had the chance to try out OSX. if you try in an apple store they pester you....

I know loads of websites that require IE to work so how is it microsofts fault? ESET's online scanner wouldnt work in firefox and told me to use IE so im lost.

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Originally Posted by Hicks12

I know loads of websites that require IE to work so how is it microsofts fault? ESET's online scanner wouldnt work in firefox and told me to use IE so im lost.

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btw eset do have a online scanner that works with firefox. may still be in beta thou.
it eiether uses somethine like java or just downloads a seprate .exe and does a scan using that.

Sorry but this seems like a repeating event to me... Some years back companies like Circuit City, K-mart, and Target (and Toys-R-US and....) all teamed up in a lawsuit against Wal-Mart and now half are gone and wal-Mart is making more than ever... Unless someone actually forces Microsoft's hand, then little things like browsers will be a thing of the past (Anyways, 'there can only be one' and last time I checked Google makes/buys outrageously popular things and Google may make Chrome and YouTube lovers that may end this silly browser war considering YouTube's popularity). (this is a silly example but equally "illegal")
I just find it hard to care about something that is "trivial" considering all the other angles that could be taken in order to "make" competition more "fair"...

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Originally Posted by Hicks12

I know loads of websites that require IE to work so how is it microsofts fault? ESET's online scanner wouldnt work in firefox and told me to use IE so im lost.

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I think the point is that Microsoft put their browser into the dominant position "unfairly" in the first place and that this forced web developers' hands to create their websites for the dominant browser at the time. This caused a, upward spiral of dominance, which other companies believe began unlawfully.

I can't see what's wrong with packaging a browser with an OS - only if you get in the way of installing another or do not give a way of changing the default browser on your system, do I think that it is "anti-competitive. I confess I don't know too much about the details in Windows, other than it takes ages to update to IE7 (or is it 6?).

As for OSX, you can change your default browser from Safari (as most people do, coz it's rubbish!!!) and you can simply chuck the app into the bin if you don't want it. I'd imagined you could do the same in Windows too.

If they don't include a Internet Browser, how do they expect you to get other browsers?

A other case of these idiots have no common sense.

Pretty simple to have a small app to allow you to download and install whatever browser you fancied at first boot I would have thought.

Having used a gentoo stage 1 you can have lots of choice over the OS

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Originally Posted by lodore

internet explorer can be removed in the later windows 7 builds.
you cant use it as a web browser once you do that but all applications that need the libaries that IE provides arent broken by it.
fyi windows update is a separate application in vista.

btw i havent had the chance to try out OSX. if you try in an apple store they pester you....

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haven't tried later builds of 7 as no punkbuster support for a beta OS, but that sounds like they are already addressing the issue which I thought they would as I doubt they fancy another fine if they can easily avoid it.

Personally i think the EC is over stepping their bounds and have completely lost sight of reality here and I desperately hope someone steps up and puts them in their place. Last time I checked the windows operating system is the property of Microsoft and is a Microsoft product which they sell on an open market, thus at least in my opinion should allow them to do what ever they choose with it. And if you have a problem with them controlling THEIR products, DONT USE THEM. While that might sound like an empty statement when looking at Microsofts control of the so called “os market” the fact remains that there are other alternatives to windows, except no one wants to use them because of some innate fear of using something new. And to clear something up I am by no means at all some kind of microsoft “fanboy” it just really irks me when groups such as the EC blindly attack a company simply because it seems like they have nothing else to do at the present. And btw the fact that all these other companies are jumping in to me at least looks extremely unprofessional in a sort of “kicking them while they are down “ kind of way and I hope it comes back and bites them all in their respective A**'s

This is getting ****ing ridiculous now...

I'm on Microsoft's side.