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About LinkBacksRead more.California governor Schwarzenegger has vowed to terminate paper textbooks. Is this the start of a broader trend?
Read more.California governor Schwarzenegger has vowed to terminate paper textbooks. Is this the start of a broader trend?
I see it as the way forward, schools are becoming every more electronic and so the infrastructure is already in place to support this, the only question is can they stop the ebook readers from going walkabout? The only question is will the publishers go for it.
This is one area that I can see a significant advantage to ebooks. Text books are heavy, expensive to produce due to short production runs and very unweildy. You practically have to destroy them to make them stay open at one page for any length of time.
Although, to completely replace text books you would need full colour displays on the readers, and perhaps full Letter/A4/Legal displays as well.
Sounds like a great idea to me.
instead of having to carry tons of heavy books in your bag you just carry one small device that has multiple books stored on it.
People on the radio kept saying that this was a terrible idea, that children trying to study on laptops was a bad idea because they would be distracted. That, IMO, is rubbish because there is just as much to distract you from reading a textbook in the real world as there is reading it online.
Also, I had the idea of something like 'StudyOS', perhaps an extremely limited, locked-down version of Linux or something, that could help students focus.
~'Armaments, universal debt, and planned obsolescence--those are the three pillars of Western prosperity'~ Aldous Huxley
ebooks != laptops
So the rest of their argument is redundant.
Like kids are not going to hammer the crap out of these things?
I'm sorry I couldn't do my homework, the dog ate my eBook
[
Originally Posted by Blitzen
England is the only region or country I have ever heard of, where children are deprived of school-books. Their school-bags are empty!
At the same time this region or country fares much less well, than other European and other countries and nations in the world, when it comes to schools and learning.
My children have no school-books, hence I don't have a clue of what my children should learn, I cannot help them. Looking up gov websites, ect ect leads nowhere.
My younger son has been "learning" for two years now French in his Primary School. He has no text-book, no worksheet, no whatsoever. How is he supposed to learn, how is he supposed to practise and revise?
The school's website advises parents how they can help their children. For French the advise given is:
"Discuss with your child the vocabulary they have learnt" sic!
1. They've learnt as good as nothing. 2. The pronounciation they have learnt doesn't even sound French. Without a book, children don't remember.
Many desperate parents buy paper text books to help their children.
A few statements have been made above:
"Text books are heavy, expensive to produce due to short production runs and very unweildy. You practically have to destroy them to make them stay open at one page for any length of time. "
??? "You practically have to destroy them to make them stay open at one page for any length of time."
Sorry, this simply is not true.
They are expensive? I.e. you say: The children are not worth them?
How much money is being wasted on completely unnecessary fancy items?
Where are your priorities?
"Sounds like a great idea to me.
instead of having to carry tons of heavy books in your bag you just carry one small device that has multiple books stored on it. "
"having to carry tons of heavy books in your bag"
About how many tons are you talking?
Children get distracted from real books as easily as when sitting on the PC and being on the web?
Sorry, this just is not true.
When reading a book, you very comfortably can sit down - and you very easily center on the book you are reading.
Reading books online ... which I've tried often... no, it's not the real thing!
The whole discussion reminds me a bit the introduction of "revolutionary" language labs in classrooms.
Again, in language learning the UK is at the very bottom when it comes to achievement.
Others use language labs combined with conventional books and capable, qualified teachers.
As I am just typing here, three inches below I have those smilies, several of them jumping around permanently!
When looking into a book, I do not have this destraction!
And now show me the kid which does not fall prey and victim to the tempation of all that "fancy stuff" on websites instead of learning and progressing.
Aloski
Tons as in lots. Not literally thousands of KG of books
Using an eBook is not the same as sitting in front of a PC or laptop and reading a web page. It is a lot closer to reading an actual book. That is the point of them.
Again, a forum is not going to be the same as an eBook. they don't do animation for a start (as far as i'm aware), so you aren't going to get a list of smilies along the bottom.
When I were a lad, we had a very large pile of books we had to cart around. Along with either folders of written material or jotters with all our notes. There were piles more books in class we used (no point in taking them home if you don't need to). Current manual handling regulations say you aren't meant to handle weights of more than 11KG (or 25lbs). I'm pretty sure we had bags of more than that, especially when swimming/gym/sports was on.
i still prefer paper and ink tbh, i dont think they could ever better paper and ink
Vodka
I'm a bit conflicted on this one - on the one hand it seems to be a good idea since it means less weight to carry, updating textbooks, etc. but on the other hand there is the potential for it to go missing or get broken easily (dropping, wet swimming things on top, etc.), plus is it a good idea for technology to be relied upon more and more?
As I said, I'm conflicted - I love technology, but it can't be perfect.
Again: Can you please name me any country with higher educational standards and results then the UK - and there is a long list of them. ..
can you name me any country above UK standards, where children do not have (i.e. are deprived of) school-text-books, please?
"Occasionally I download e-books, mostly in foreign languages. I do print them out and read the hard copy. It is more comfortable- and if I wish so I can write notes ect on the paper."
Now, your main argument against school-books is that they are too heavy. You wrote:
"When I were a lad, we had a very large pile of books we had to cart around. Along with either folders of written material or jotters with all our notes. There were piles more books in class we used (no point in taking them home if you don't need to). Current manual handling regulations say you aren't meant to handle weights of more than 11KG (or 25lbs). I'm pretty sure we had bags of more than that, especially when swimming/gym/sports was on."
Fine!
11KG, that is way above what it should be. So the problem is: Too many books. Solution: Reduce the weight (not: throw all books away!)
I do not understand how you arrive at "weights of more than 11KG".
The average school-day may comprise five different subjects. Schoolbooks on average do not weigh a kilo.
OKAY: Let's try: Math book 800 gr, English 1Kg, Science book 1KG, Music - nil, no book, sports ( you leave your outfit at school, take it home occasionally for washing) sport shorts way 300gr. T-shirt 200 gr. Add a big folder into which you put your homework worksheets, you keep in it all of the last three weeks:
600 gr.
So I arrive at approximately 4KG.
I just can't understand how you arrive at more than 11KG. There is no need for 11KG, and, yes, it really would be too much.
But to say, because the (I would say very unrealistic) 11 KGs are too much, I reduce it to 0 gr. - is not the solution.
If you are going to take a plane and your luggage is too heavy for you to carry- so what do you do?
A) I reduce my luggage to the amount I can carry; I prioritise in what I need and can take with me.
B) I take 0 gr - even though half of the luggage is really needed and covers my bare necessities.
My two boys ( I am a single Dad) are trilingual ( and I don't count the basic French they speak)
They do at times use language software which is brilliant and fun.
However I do have books, real books, too - and I do not imagine how they could do without books.
They do sit down with me, we open a book and read a story or some text in French, Spanish or German.
Occasionally they do some written work. Yes, they do use pencil and rubber.
By the way:
The UK is the only country I know of, where children in Primary Schools are not even expected to bring their own pen and pencil, their own ruler and rubber with them to school. Yes, I understand, it would be far toooo much, to expect this from a ten or elven year old.
I see two factors which contribute and push towards the "abolition" of school-books:
1. The software industry.
2. Teaching staff:
It does mean a bit of an effort to get children used to daily bring their pen, colour-pencils, ruler and rubber to school. All countries I know of, expect this from their children. The only exception I know of, is the UK.
Here, instead of pen, paper, pencils, ruler, rubber, they arrive in uniform (which doesn't help for learning, I've done immese research and there is not a single one which proves that wearing a uniform at school improves behaviour, discipline or performance and results!!)
Why are children in the UK not expected to bring their own pen, colour-pencils, rubber and ruler?
Reason: It would mean a bit of an effort from teaching staff, it would mean an absolute minimum of expectation towards the students.
Hence the expectation simply has been dropped.
The same now applies to text-books.
I plead against text-books, because 11KG is too much.
If I wear a heavy winter-coat which really is too heavy, and too warm-
then I take it off -
but I do not decide therefor that
I have to run around naked.
Aloski
Books, books, books....
Annoying arses to carry around, it got to the point where my bag straps snapped from the weight of carrying text books around...
Yes some subjects only have 1 text book, others don't...
Doing combined science gives you three or more text books for just physics chemistry and biology, add to that english language and literature, and then maths books of varying degrees (i.e. part 1+2+3), and that is just core subjects, and that is without sportskit...
Did it cause any damage? well my back used to hurt from carrying them, and so did my shoulder...
And that was only GCSE...
Post Counts and Other Rewards, Rules, Folding@Home, Fans: Push vs Pull vs Push-Pull, Corsair PSU OEMs.
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The weight of some school bags is completely ridiculous, especially for smaller people growing up.
There's also the question of the amount of paper used in textbooks which are often redundant after only a few years. Considering the pillage of the rainforests it makes sense to start using eBooks.
~'Armaments, universal debt, and planned obsolescence--those are the three pillars of Western prosperity'~ Aldous Huxley
In my opinion, eBooks should not and, at least in the foreseeable future, will not replace textbooks.
Are you referring to eBooks or the current crop of what are generally referred to as eReaders? For purposes of this thread, by "eReader" I mean the handheld devices generally using "electronic paper" technology, though the term does more generally also iinclude software to allow to you use eBooks. eBooks, on the other hand, are really just a file containing a book, read by some application or other. I have some eBooks on my PC, and I do use them on a laptop. It therefore is much the same as sitting in front of a PC, in that you have to deal with the visual qualities of desktop monitors or laptop screens rather than the far more eye-friendly electronic paper.
And therein lies the first reason why eBooks should not replace printed books, though they may well work as a complement, rather than an alternative. That reason is ..... is you use eReader devices, you don't (as I understand it) get get either animation or colour. If you use a printed book, you don't get animation but you do get colour. If you use a conventional PC/laptop, you get animation and colour, but you also get the eyestrain the screen technology implies which one of the main reasons for eReaders in the first place.
Next point. It's been a while now since I was at school, but unless things have changed a lot, study often involved using several books at the same time. I'd often have two, three or even four relevant books spread out, and be working from one while referring to or looking things up in the others. How many eReaders are parents supposed to buy, or schools provide?
Also, in my day, many of the textbooks we had lasted for many years. Some might be year-specific (such as the current study texts in English lit), but once finished with in one year, they went back into storerooms, and might come out again several years later. So if schools don't have the budget to provide, and refresh, their supply of textbooks, where the hell is the budget for buying loads of eReaders going to come from? And, of course, for replacing them when kids break (or "lose") them? Or is that going to be down to the parents to finance? Because if it is, affluent kids are going to get an immediate advantage over those from poorer backgrounds.
eBooks might well be a useful complement to actual books, but I don't yet see them as being capable of replacing them, partly for functional reasons, and partly for financial ones.
As for the weight of carrying all those books around, well, kids have been doing it for decades, so it certainly can be done. So why is it suddenly a problem?
Flick between two or more books like tabs in a web browser?
Also - this might be my useless school and it's love of BTEC courses and getting the maximum amount of GCSEs from each pupil to make the school look good, but I often carry around an empty bag (apart from my lunch and the odd folder when I do rarely get work to take home.)
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