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Amazon has put rumours to bed by confirming the launch of its revamped e-reader.
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Amazon has put rumours to bed by confirming the launch of its revamped e-reader.
Interesting to see they've launched a UK site too selling the wifi version for £109 or the 3G version for £149.
I'm very tempted with a 3G version. I've currently got an iRiver Story which I know I can sell on without a problem. The idea of being able to have a daily newspaper 'delivered' every morning when I'm travelling is very appealing as is being able to get a book within a minute of paying for it. The Story requires Adobe Digital Editions which on the Mac is a hideous piece of software, almost bad enough to make me not buy new books for the Story.
I've gone for the 3g, the idea of getting some of the magazins and journals, not just the papers is excellent.
Not to mention it covers it effortlessly when I'm abroad, because sure I could use the wifi and make my phone a hot spot, but really? I want something thats quite effortless, and i'll pay a one off fee of £40 for that functionality!
Then a small margin for each book I find I want/need as I will be mostly using it for a lot of my reference books.
£109 ? Couldn't they have squeezed it to the magic £99 figure ? :)
Still a much better price point than previously, I might buy one even through I have an ipad (with kindle app).
Are my kindle books tied to one device, or are all books on my kindle account transferrable between devices ?
Dependent on the available periodicals I may well be interested in oue of these myself - the price is a pretty sweet spot, and if they can get the Kindle edition prices down to a little less than paperback prices on books I'd definitely be interested.
am thinking of getting one for the missus.
My only question is do you have to buy the books from america amazon or will they put them on uk site too soon.
Lifted from the large "letter" on the front page of Amazon.co.ukQuote:
Both new generation Kindles have access to our new UK Kindle Store, which offers the biggest selection and lowest prices of any e-bookstore in the UK. Enjoy more than 400,000 books including bestsellers and new releases, plus UK and international newspapers, magazines and blogs. Our vision is to have every book ever written, in any language, all available in under 60 seconds
I have to say, these things are getting to the point they are tempting. I'll have to see what others think of them first though.
One thing I would like to see is a free download with every physical purchase, that would probably do it for me :)
It will all come down to the prices of the ebboks for me. IF it is the same price as the paperback - Ill buy the paperback. If its cheaper then this is definitely a viable option for me.
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page <-- Free cheap enough?
Thou personally I would probably be willing to spend £1 a book if it meant I could download it effortlessly in whichever country I'm in without having to find wifi and it was well formatted/presented
I agree they're getting tempting with dropping prices, at least for the hardware, but I have a couple of reservations, at least one of them being a deal-killer for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkstar
The first reservation is a general purpose one. If I buy a book, I can read it, lend it to someone else, and then sell it on if I wish. If I buy an e-book, all I've got is a limited licence to use and explicitly not to give away or sell on. That would perhaps be acceptable if e-books were cheaper, or free when you buy the printed version ..... but they ain't.
Next comes remote revocation.
When Amazon got into a copyright mess last year by selling (via their store) content from a provider that didn't have the right to sell that content, Amazon reacted by remotely deleting content from user's Kindles ... and content that the user had paid for too, and Amazon did it without permission, and without even advance notice.
Now, personally, I understand the copyright imperative. Amazon had facilitated the supply of material in direct breach of copyright, and acted to rectify that. They refunded the money paid by people that had bought this illegal material, so they were not out of pocket, even if they were a bit miffed, to say the least.
But the problems is that the fact that they did it highlighted the fact that they can do it. And the issue for me is .... who controls the hardware I "own"? It's a bit like buying a book from a store, then finding that because the book had been stolen and sold to the store, they burgle me in the middle of the night and take the book back, and leave the price paid on my desk. If it's MY house, they don't have the right to waltz in and remove stuff whenever they feel like it, even if the reason was the legality of the book. So .... who really, for practical purposes, owns the Kindle, if they control what goes on on it?
They also include in their T&Cs the right to automatically update the software, and don't, at least in their licence, allow me to decide if I want my Kindle updated or not. Again, I understand the "good" uses of this, but it is open to abuse too. I do not, for instance, allow Windows to auto-update. I decide if an update is necessary or desirable, not MS, and MS provide the facility for automatic background updates, but at least don't force them, on me.
And that brings me onto their "licence", under which all content you buy is controlled. What you buy is the rights of use that that licence confers, and no more. That makes me nervous about some of their T&Cs ....
So .... all the money you've paid for e-books only provides access via their service, and they may pull the service at any time. And you've agreed to that.Quote:
Changes to Service.
We may modify, suspend or discontinue the service, in whole or in part, at any time
Moreover, apparently and according to Amazon, that remote removal of content I talked about earlier happened because their system acted that way when when the items were removed from the system. So it wasn't even an overt decision that Amazon made, apparently, to remove such content - their system did it, and content was removed from user's Kindles as a result of that computer decision. Great. Not.
So, hypothesising, what happens if Amazon go bust? What happens if they're bought out and the new owner decides to pull some or all of the service? And if anyone thinks they're too big or too successful for that to happen, well .... BP? GM? Nuff said?
And how about this bit of their T&Cs ....
I added the red emphasis.Quote:
Termination.
Your rights under this agreement will automatically terminate if you fail to comply with any term of this Agreement. In case of such termination, you must cease all use of the software, and Amazon may immediately revoke your access to the service or to Digital Content without any refund of any fees. Amazon's failure to insist upon or enforce your strict compliance with this Agreement will not constitute a waiver of any of it's rights.
So ... hands up (other than me) anyone that's actually read the agreement you're signing up to? Yup, that's what I thought. So how can you be sure if you're doing anything to breach it, and if you do, you may have bought hundreds or thousands of pounds of books, and find you lose all access. And no refunds either.
Finally, privacy. This bit is perhaps more significant to my intended usage than it would be to many. My interest is not for buying books, newspapers or magazine subscriptions. It's mainly for carrying round work-related materials, like reference works, manuals, procedures, etc.
With that in mind, their T&Cs again ....
Again, I can see how that maybe useful in some regards for syncing, etc, but to me, it’s absolutely a deal-killer if Amazon have the right, and indeed even the ability, to monitor what content I store on my Kindle, and they store annotations etc that may well be commercially sensitive and to which I may be under a duty of confidentiality myself.Quote:
Information Received.
The software will provide Amazon with data about your Kindle and it's interaction with the service (such as available memory, uptime, log files and signal strength). The software will also provide Amazon with information related to the Digital Content on your Kindle and Other Devices (such as last page read and content archiving). Annotations, bookmarks, notes, highlights or similar markings you make using your Kindle or Reading Application and other information you provide may be stored on servers located outside the country in which you live.
....
All told, while I like many aspects of the idea and the device, there's too many things that make me nervous for it to be a serious contender.
It depends on the cost.
For me, a lot of the stuff will be available freely, and I can pre-load it.
If I loose £300 of ebooks, in 10 years time. I'm willing to take that hit for the sake of not having to store them.
As most of the technical manuals I buy are useless in 3 years anyway.
Even with all the caveats raised by all on here I'm still very tempted
This is where I think ebooks have a killer advantage over their dead tree alternatives. I've never liked using the massive reference manuals I've bought over the years (all of which are obsolete and massively out of date). I would imagine that the vast majority of the £45+ cost of these is the manufacture, so an ebook version for under £10 would be a bargain.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnimus
That's really what stopped me buying a kindle until now, that and the extortionate ebook prices...Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen
Publishers have their head in the sand on this point, they won't price them much less than paper versions for fear of harming paper sales :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkstar
If it's things like PC books, or similar, then I'd agree - they have a distinctly limited 'shelf life'. But the technical manuals I mean aren't bought, they're confidential, and continually updated .... and valuable. If Amazon can remote access to delete, and can remote access to keep notes of annotations etc, then who knows what else they can do remotely.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnimus
This is the same objection I have to cloud computing. While it may suit some, it's entirely inappropriate for me to back up onto remote servers out of my control. For much the same reason, sensitive email goes encrypted. It's about control over data. If it was a case of merely loading material onto the Kindle, where upon it was under my physical control. I'd be very interested. But the nature of their control over my hardware, and what's on it, gives me a problem.
Oh yeh, I wouldn't recommend it for ANYTHING confidential, its a networked device. Anyone who is dealing with confidential information shouldn't be using a network, or connectivity device unless they have a really good reason too!
But if its just a case of say Ritcher's CLR book, which has a life of at most 5 years before a new version comes out, and as someone like me, its just not worth the effort of having to think and remember "oh that's changed" even thou 80% of the content is the same..... Anyway, I think we all agree for these things its excellent, I do feel quite a lot for some of these technical authors because they don't make much, and I think they need DRM to stop the freetards ease, but I prefer the carrot of having all the books I need, on tap within 60 seconds for a reasonable price!
Yup, it's a balance between convenience and utility on the one hand, and risk and confidentiality on the other.
It's the same logic as with, as you point out, any level of network access, and for that matter, with PC component choice. How do you design a backup strategy? Answer - it depends on what's at risk. If it's just your game saves in whatever the current flavour of RPG is, the risk is different to when your livelihood depends on it.
In one of the applications I have in mind for this, a major benefit would be always having up-to-date reference materials, like manuals and procedures, to hand, and it would help with ISO9000 quality control in terms of keeping document distribution both currently, and controlled. On the other hand, the uncertainly of remote access by a third party, without my knowledge of permission, is a major problem. None of this would be much of a concern if it was just about some PC tech books and my holiday reading. ;)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not carrying around 'secrets' that the CIA and KGB are fighting over. Merely stuff with some commercial sensitivity and value. But it's sensitive enough that that remote access is a concern.
Anychance they will bring one out without all of this?
No, but as all a kindle really is is a e-ink panel, sony amazon and barnes + noble all use the same firm to manafacture them, its not impossible for someone to make one of these which would address Saracens concerns, obviously it would be priced a lot higher, as these amazon ones are probably sold at very low profit.
Sell the razor cheaply, and charge a fortune for the blades.
Would also help with any ISO14001 programs as you wouldn't need to be constantly printing updated manuals :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen
I was thinking about this last night. I can see this happening eventually and it wouldn't be difficult at all. Just a relatively minor software change to the Kindle and you could get it to connect to your companies private document server which will push down updates of internal documentation etc. A company that could justify something like that probably already has a fairly comprehensive document server for version management.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnimus
Not necessarily. Some quite small companies have to find ways of solving this type of requirement, especially depending on who their customers are and what the "business" sector is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkstar
A "push" technology from a private server would be ideal, but it's overkill for what I was talking about. Providing the procedures are in place to ensure documents and controlled and kept up to date, and people that need them know how to get them, and will always get the current version, then the documents can even be paper. In fact, in the environment I had in mind, they currently are. Pushing updates via 3G or even wifi is a great idea, in theory at least, but it would solve the need even if the user had to manually download updates.
What makes me nervous, though, is that Amazon clearly have some degree of remote control over the content of the Kindle, and the notion of some US corporate being able to (and clearly willing to) mess about with that content, makes me very nervous in the context of that document system, but personally, it makes me very nervous purely in terms of my personal privacy. We know corporations like to build up very detailed pictures of people, and one way of doing it is to know what you read. It's all grist for the mill in data warehousing operations and feeds into data mining.
Suppose you buy a couple of books on your Kindle on gardening. Are you going to start getting emails, or postal mails, on gardening supplies and equipment. Suppose you buy a "Coping with new baby" book, are you going to start getting nappy adverts?
This type of thing is already big business, and growing. Companies build up ever larger data pictures of all of us, and while I have no idea of whether Amazon do this or not, I can certainly see how it could happen, and personally, I both resent it and object to it.
I'm sure there's going to be someone that'll say "it's already happened, get over it". There usually is. But the simple fact is that while others may not care, I do, and while I can't control information that's already out there, and some things are impossible to stay anonymous with, I do do all I reasonably can to avoid letting companies build a data picture. So, on that note, I don't have any store "reward" cards. I know I could save a bit of money, but I'm not prepared to sell my personal profile for the trivial sums involved. In fact, I'm not prepared to sell it at any sum that these companies would be willing to pay. And going further yet, most of my day-to-day purchases, in supermarkets etc, are for cash. I won't even use a credit or debit card.
So I'm certainly not about to let Amazon have a good rummage through my book collection, or my tastes in magazines or periodicals, and while I don't know if they do or, not, I don't trust them not to. I, personally, will not consider a device with the level of remote access Amazon clearly, and to my mind, rather surreptitiously, have. If I can load my choice of content onto a Kindle, entirely isolated from Amazon's nosy prying eyes, then fine. But with the 3G version, I just don;t trust, after recent incidents, that we even know what they're doing with their connection to our devices. Even with the wifi version, where preventing this level of prying may well be more practical, I still can't see any easy and obvious way to be sure to keep them out.
If I could be sure to keep them out, then the price is now (for the non-3G version) getting to the point where I'd consider it. I always said to myself "sub £100", and we're close enough to that that I'd look at it. But not unless the privacy issues are resolved to my absolute satisfaction, which is that they have NO access to my device. In that way, buying a book physically and getting an ebook with it that I can load onto my Kindle would be acceptable to me, but buying online and building that data profile with them would not. That suggests that the personal uses of it for me wouldn't be practical, for DRM reasons, but the business use where I load my own PDFs from my own PC might, providing I can be absolutely sure Amazon are locked out of nosing among my device;s contents.
Oh, and even if the privacy issues and DRM were addressed, I still have a problem with ebooks - price, If I can buy a printed version where they had all the costs of materials, printing, distribution and warehousing, not to mention profit margins for several layers of the chain, I'm not paying more than that price for an ebook with minimal associated costs, and especially where I can't even sell on or give away the book one done with it. That strikes me as tantamount to paying a very sizeable premium on the ebook for the dubious benefits and accepting all the DRM and licence restrictions on top. Somehow, that pricing policy just sticks in my craw, and I don't see me ever finding it acceptable. So until or unless I can get round both the pricing policy and the privacy concerns, I can't see me using a Kindle other than perhaps for loading PDFs (etc) under my direct control.
AIUI the kindle's strength is its connectivity and ease of book purchasing & delivery,Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen
if you are happy to just load PDFs via a PC, then any of the other ereaders would be more suited.