News - BT slams Virgin's 'high price' broadband service

[Biscuit]

Plus they don't have a Fair Usage policy that Be does, simple peak usage cap and unlimited off-peak usage. If Be are good, Aquiss are brilliant.

My dad uses aquiss and they are very very good BUT comparing their usage policy to Be/O2 is unwise... i download a LOT of stuff at all times of the day and am yet to see the slightest bit of traffic shaping/capping. At home i have not changed the settings on various bits of software before and had my dad screaming at me for pushing us close to the cap.

[Astridax93]

Well I would find the benefits of 100mb broadband immense. I would love superfast, broadband. Since I am a gamer, the faster the broadband, the faster the updates, videos etc would download. I am the only one in the family who does this. But I know people where 3-4 people are playing games simultaneously. The extra bandwidth would really help them. I at the moment have virgin's 10mb service and I enjoy faster speeds than I or my friends ever did with ADSL. I get a consistent 10mb/s or faster sometimes. My friends sometimes hardly enjoy 2mb/s.

Copper line is an old method of content delivery, it's about time our country modernised. Just look at south korea.

On the topic about virgin vs BT. When you include Virgin TV in the mix, it comes to a far cheaper price than BT fibre + Virgin TV or even BT fibre + Sky TV (Of which I can't get because of some 200ft Scottish pine trees in the cemetery across the road )

Virgin TV isn't that bad, and it is only £7 more than BT. Now could you get Sky TV for £7?

[Noxvayl]

My dad uses aquiss and they are very very good BUT comparing their usage policy to Be/O2 is unwise... i download a LOT of stuff at all times of the day and am yet to see the slightest bit of traffic shaping/capping. At home i have not changed the settings on various bits of software before and had my dad screaming at me for pushing us close to the cap.

The reason I did it was because a peak cap I can work around, not difficult to organise your downloads to be on during specific times where as a hidden cap is impossible to work around. Plus there is always the option for ISPs with Fair Usage Policies to throttle you should they want to increase profit margins and oversell their network, may not be right now but can easily happen.

I don't like taking that sort of risk, Newnet(parents broadband) has already begun such practices after marketing "No traffic shaping" when we signed up... They did have a fair usage policy to begin with but I thought nothing of it, proved to be a bad mistake.

[Noxvayl]

Virgin TV isn't that bad, and it is only £7 more than BT. Now could you get Sky TV for £7?

BT Vision

Not to say it's a good choice, it is an option however. Either way I won't get Virgin or BT broadband, no matter what speeds they claim. The ridiculous service is not worth any amount they ask for regardless of speed.

[crossy]

BT Vision

Not to say it's a good choice, it is an option however. Either way I won't get Virgin or BT broadband, no matter what speeds they claim. The ridiculous service is not worth any amount they ask for regardless of speed.

BT "Vision" = PAYG tv as far as I can see, which doesn't suit if you like to channel-surf. Any broadband provider that uses ADSLx is a non-starter for me, since I'm too darned far away from the exchange to get any kind of decent response, whether it be from Be, BT, or whatever wire-hirer is in vogue this week.

On the other hand I get a 10 Mb line from Virgin, it's very reliable and I seldom hit the traffic shaping caps - despite teleworking over it!

Of which speaking - does anyone have any idea whether this announcement means that the prices of the existing products are going to fall? Or are Virgin going to drop the 10Mb service and give me a "free" upgrade to the 20Mb service for Christmas? (In which case I'll be a happy bunny)

[Noxvayl]

Of which speaking - does anyone have any idea whether this announcement means that the prices of the existing products are going to fall? Or are Virgin going to drop the 10Mb service and give me a "free" upgrade to the 20Mb service for Christmas? (In which case I'll be a happy bunny)

The last upgrade Virgin did my friend got a free speed bump... so my guess is that they'll do the same this time.

[3dcandy]

But even over a normal BT line there are loads of better providers than BT?

Like who? Everytime I try and change they won't let me...

[petercook7]

I think BT just want to be mentioned in the same article that Virgins new faster broadband is for publicity and marketing. I doubt much of what is said holds any value or meaning from whoever it was.

That being said I have no problems with caps on a broadband line, the infrastructure is so bad in this country that caps are almost mandatory so that people can get acceptable services. Fair usage policies on the other hand are pathetic, poor excuse for slowing peoples internet at a whim.

My new connection will be with either Fast.co.uk or aquiss.net because they have a great service with peak caps and zero fair usage policies. More than likely Fast.co.uk because they offer FTTC which I can get next year May(hopefully).

45 gig caps on there 45 meg line no thx.

[Noxvayl]

45 gig caps on there 45 meg line no thx.

Want to try again?

I would say Fast.co.uk have some low caps on the less expensive options but then so does everyone. BT's "Unlimited Service" has a cap of 40Gb before you get traffic shaping applied to your line and Virgin's isn't much better... If an ISP has a Fair Usage Policy and markets "Unlimited Bandwidth" it's more than likely that their threshold of throttling is below 100Gb.

So, Fair Usage Policy... NO THANKS. Far worse than having a clearly defined cap.

Like who? Everytime I try and change they won't let me...

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/review/top50.php

Anyone in the top 10 would be great choices, and anyone below 25th would be MUCH better than BT. All you need from BT is a MAC code, which you give to the ISP you choose to switch to...

[guinn]

Hah, an interesting way of selling a traffic shaped service - telling you the times when it's not capped to try an brush aside the week/daytime.

[BobF64]

Yes BT, it maybe twice the price but it is nearly 3x the speed 'infinity' is currently offering.

I suggest BT goes and picks up their toys they've thrown out of the pram and starts acting like a bunch of grown-ups and pull their fingers out to improve the broadband speed for everyone as opposed to acting like a spolit brat over another companies offerings.

Oh and BT didn't complain when I was paying £45 a month for their 512 Kb "openwound" service did they. What a short memory they have got

What makes me laugh the most is the adverts saying "BT are investing in the future of the internet".

They are? Looks like theyre using tech thats at least 1 generation too old already and prices that are about 5 years too late.

When they actually offer 100mb/s for £20 a month, like a lot of decent countries currently do, then they can comment, but not before.

Theres definitely something to be said for either state-owned or independant infrastructure as well.

BT should have the actual network remove from them, plain and simple, split off into a independant provider of physical connections, that even BT must rent from to provide DSL, and without shareholders.

[Noxvayl]

Hah, an interesting way of selling a traffic shaped service - telling you the times when it's not capped to try an brush aside the week/daytime.

What do you mean by "traffic shaped"?

My understanding is as follows: A service provided which is altered from it's original form to suit the ISP. Example: Reducing speeds(by roughly 75%) causing a considerable disturbance to customers.

My understanding of the term makes your statement sound incorrect. It's an interesting approach to providing broadband, but I don't see how it could be viewed as traffic shaping...

[miniyazz]

In general, I would rather have traffic shaping (as long as it abides by clearly defined guidelines) than a cap. Taking the example above, I'd be considerably happier to have an 'unlimited' policy with a 45GB FUP, where after I breach the limit they cut my speed down horrendously, than a policy with a 45GB cap (even if it gives me an additional GB of horrendously cut-down speed) which will ultimately cut me off entirely when I go over. Minimal internet use is better than none.

I appreciate the concern with them being able to do whatever they like with their traffic shaping unlike with capping, hence the "abide by guidelines" proviso.

[Noxvayl]

In general, I would rather have traffic shaping (as long as it abides by clearly defined guidelines) than a cap. Taking the example above, I'd be considerably happier to have an 'unlimited' policy with a 45GB FUP, where after I breach the limit they cut my speed down horrendously, than a policy with a 45GB cap (even if it gives me an additional GB of horrendously cut-down speed) which will ultimately cut me off entirely when I go over. Minimal internet use is better than none.

I appreciate the concern with them being able to do whatever they like with their traffic shaping unlike with capping, hence the "abide by guidelines" proviso.

Interesting... I guess I am heavily bias by the lack of honesty with Fair Usage Policies, and the bad experiences I've had of course.

At least we both can get the service we want, except for speed(too far behind in technology to even be impressed with 50Mb fibre). A friend of mine in Norway gets 100Mb/100Mb(upload/download) included in his rent... our broadband is shameful in comparison.

[crossy]

Interesting... I guess I am heavily bias by the lack of honesty with Fair Usage Policies, and the bad experiences I've had of course.

As you say - opinions are based on experience. The way that VM implement (at least in my area) their FUP is fine. Speaking to a VM techie (not the Asian-hosted script readers) was interesting - apparently the traffic shaping only bites if you exceed the "limit" and then start hitting the net during peak traffic periods. So if you do that mega download during the day and then do some mails and light web browsing at night then you probably won't see the shaping hit. I just wish that they had the courage to make the FUP details a little easier to find on that mess of a website.
On the other hand, my mobile has a monthly usage cap, and I'm forever checking how much of that precious resource I'm using.
That website except you posted earlier was interesting - especially that whomever it was you were quoting (Fast?) regard 8pm onwards as "slack" time - I'm sure that VM and BT regarded 8pm-midnight as part of their "peak" time.

At least we both can get the service we want, except for speed(too far behind in technology to even be impressed with 50Mb fibre). A friend of mine in Norway gets 100Mb/100Mb(upload/download) included in his rent... our broadband is shameful in comparison.

Oh, I totally agree with that - although from listening to podcasts it would appear that the US is even worse - so maybe it's something to do with geography? (And yes, I'm quite prepared to have it pointed out that the Japanese have managed what we can't broadband wise - but then again they have a usable train service too).
Still it raises a slight smile that the BT Infinity ads are still running, promising the fastest broadband, at the same time that VM's are running with the same promise. Although I then remember that the last time I checked with BT I could only get "up to" 3Mb to my house - which I guess isn't far from what my 3G phone could do theoretically.

[Noxvayl]

That website except you posted earlier was interesting - especially that whomever it was you were quoting (Fast?) regard 8pm onwards as "slack" time - I'm sure that VM and BT regarded 8pm-midnight as part of their "peak" time.

That was Aquiss (the ISP I've decided to use) and the reason for that oddity is that the broadband option it relates to is a business one. So anything outside of business hours is off-peak which is generally peak for residential users

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I read, at some point, that Japan launched satellites to provide broadband to mountainous regions it was not willing to run cables for. They doubled the satellites as a source for internet on the go so anyone could connect during their journey to work. Was reported that they received 200Mb transfers on the Bullet train, which is ridiculous. Theoretically they could get the same broadband access for internal flights as well... It's awesome to see how much we can do with the technology we have but so sad to see the abysmal results our democratic process produces.